Why is Zangief considered weak again?

[The Watcher]

He is so easy to learn.. In first 30 minutes I got Gold-5 in him and I am destroying most people.. Am I missing something? How do people struggle from game's release even with Macros to reach that rank with him?

And someone was saying Guile/Cammy were braindead...? Zangief was so simple and braindead to learn and win with!

I think every character is viable but most importantly, remember to have fun!

[Cam]

I've seen diamond 1 Kens that still do jab jab shoryuken as their main combo, I really don't think it's gonna be hard to win with any character at Gold if you're a serious FG player

[Melheck]

What you're missing is the definition of a tier list and also of the word "viable".

People barely know how to play the game at lower level, they're just pushing buttons.
What viable means is TOURNAMENT viable. As in "can win a tournament". A tier list more often than not is used in this context only.
A tier list is supposed to pit every tool of a character against every tool of another and see who comes out on top more regularly.

It was never about ranked mode.

[bulldog0890]

gief requires a real high skill player at higher levels, he just doesn't have the same toolkit as everyone else

[Melheck]

Originally posted by Zahramar:

The point is I think we should not go with "tier lists" of the "pros" to dedicate if a character is strong or not, and focus on ourselves and improving and not some boogyman excuse

That much is true, unless you're at the highest level and trying to win a tournament you should just try to improve and have fun. Some matchups will be more difficult but every character can get to master with an experienced player behind the wheel.

[SeeNoWeevil]

Originally posted by Zahramar:

He is so easy to learn.. In first 30 minutes I got Gold-5 in him and I am destroying most people.. Am I missing something? How do people struggle from game's release even with Macros to reach that rank with him?

And someone was saying Guile/Cammy were braindead...? Zangief was so simple and braindead to learn and win with!

I think every character is viable but most importantly, remember to have fun! :cuphead:

Because you're gold rank.

[Nauct]

Ease of learning is irrelevant when you're talking about how good a character is. Talking about how good or bad a character is assumes you've learned and mastered the character. Ease of use has a slight value because there is less chance for error in a tournament setting.

When people talk about strong/weak characters they're referring to top level gameplay. IE pros at tournaments who are the closest to playing optimally. Also a characters strength depends mostly on their match ups. A character could be godly against some characters, but lose to the top tiers, so they would be low tier.

https://i.redd.it/win-rate-by-character-by-league-v0-j4mipz85p7cb1.png?s=273fc38ca73ae08f9d1ef34fe320e1b773067587

If you look at this graph you see Kimberly has a high winrate in every league, yet she is considered bottom 3 by most people. Also Juri has a low winrate in masters and is considered around top 3 or 5 by most people.

So the moral of the story is, if you're worried about your character being "weak" don't be. Even if you're a pro, you'll probably do better playing a character you really like instead of a "top tier"

[Nauct]

Originally posted by Zahramar:

Thanks guys I am reading most of your responses and they make sense, especially when you explain what they mean by "strong/weak".

I also agree ease of use has nothing to do with character being strong, but I read some posts somewhere someone was calling people braindead for playing Guile (or Cammy) because he is a Zangief main or something.. I just thought it was an odd thought.

People will say the most complex hardest to use character is braindead, you'll get used to it

[C1REX]

Zangief is one of the easiest to control because he has no good combos. Without Drive meter he has like 3hit combos. He can have a bit longer from drive rush but still trash and Gief in burnout is very risky.

At certain ranks everybody is exactly the same because, well... you are at the same rank.
Easy to control doesn't mean easy wins. I had easy wins with Honda up to diamond1 and now I struggle with Gief at Plat 4 and constantly going back to Plat 3.
In my noob "expertise" I think he is the only character that can't win a major tournament. All other low tiers can but I can't see gief doing that.

[X]

Originally posted by Melheck:

What you're missing is the definition of a tier list and also of the word "viable".

People barely know how to play the game at lower level, they're just pushing buttons.
What viable means is TOURNAMENT viable. As in "can win a tournament". A tier list more often than not is used in this context only.
A tier list is supposed to pit every tool of a character against every tool of another and see who comes out on top more regularly.

It was never about ranked mode.

+1
This should be marked as the answer.

[Wildzide]

Originally posted by Zahramar:

He is so easy to learn.. In first 30 minutes I got Gold-5 in him and I am destroying most people.. Am I missing something? How do people struggle from game's release even with Macros to reach that rank with him?

And someone was saying Guile/Cammy were braindead...? Zangief was so simple and braindead to learn and win with!

I think every character is viable but most importantly, remember to have fun! :cuphead:

You think gold 5 is impressive? Try playing Gief against high diamonds and master players and tell me how it goes.

[Powercrank]

Zangief is VERY strong against new or even intermediate players. It's when people know the matchup that he starts to have serious problems. The man practically has no options against a character like dhalsim, and even characters like Cammy can easily outmaneuver him and force him to take big risks while making their own risks very small with their superior mobility and pokes. You'll really start to feel the struggle when you hit mid plat or diamond and the only way to open up a good player is by whiff punishing with Giefs trash normals.
The stats reflect this too - gief is in the top 5 "best win rates per character" up until Gold rank, after which he falls off hard (getting replaced by dhalsim, who unsurprisingly does NOT do well at low ranks)

Pretty much the only characters Gief doesn't struggle against are the other grapplers... who, incidentally, are ALL considered to be mediocre characters.

[•OyajiBR•]

I like Zangief. One of the best since SF2.

[Choco]

Woah we have a pro Gold 5 god over there.

[Shoepots]

Gold/Plat 1 is a rank where people still barely play footies or neutral and tier lists don't mean anything because most players there aren't even using all of the character's tools.

[SeeNoWeevil]

When you start playing Master rank against people using Juri, Ken, Luke etc. it feels like you're playing a SF2 character against a Guilty Gear character.