Modern controls exposed the brutal reality of skill issue.

[C1REX]

First of all I think the Modern Controls is a brilliant idea by Capcom.
It's also an obviously very hot topic that we have like 2 per page.

I think it unintentionally exposed how difficult Street Fighter is and how bad many long term fans are.

Here is the brutal truth:
- You complain about modern controls because YOU don't want to learn.
- You don't want to learn combos and you don't want others to be able to do any combos.
- You want 6 buttons layout so you can comfortably use just two of them - heavy punch and heavy kick. It makes you feel smart and experienced by using only top tier buttons.
- You want the same nostalgia feeling you had playing SF2 where doing an anti air DP was the peak of possible skill. Anything harder than that is just stupid.
- You want the game without combos, without move cancelling, without Drive Impact, without Drive Rush, Drive Reversal, Perfect Parry, throw loops, Shimmy and generally 90% of stuff people do from mid ranks and up.
- You want new SF2 - not SF6.

You don't want to learn. You pretend to use classic to improve when you do absolutely zero to improve. You've learnt no combos. You don't practice combo trials. You don't know bread and butter combos and don't want to learn them. You hope nobody in your ranks will do them. If they learn they are cheating smurfs.

Street Fighter is an insanely hard game. Maybe even too hard in modern standards. Maybe combos are too hard. Maybe newcomers should be able to do some basic combos in classic controls. Maybe the most basic stuff should be simplified so people can actually use them and actually play SF6 as intended - with combos and pressure. With all the tools the game has to offer.

I'm just a little bit fed up by this arrogant gatekeeping people at the lowest ranks who pretend they are better than others.

[Eclisis]

people have literally been cheating us an option select glicth that Capcom has to patch in order to fix the game, because it's broken where you can't be shimmy or thrown 100 percent only because somebody snitched on twitter, yet people have the nerve to complain about modern controls and skill lmao

[QuailmanX]

isnt there a damage penalty for using Modern? Inherently making it less effective for the same combo performed on classic mode? OP plays the souls games, idk how hes upset about difficulty.

[Liberty Distributor]

♥♥♥♥ classic controls. I'm not trying to get carpal tunnel from this ♥♥♥♥. IKf they get rid of them I'd refund the game and go back to another just like probably the vast majority of new players.

[Kawalorn]

Originally posted by ShadowSplit:

Originally posted by Kawalorn:

Ah yes, because having to do quarter circle forwards is totally needed to learn spacing, footsies, pressure, prediction, matchups, meter management and defense.

Jesus christ, you people.

Quarter circle can be used for both Hadouken and Shoryuken, so I would say you gotta learn spacing and your moves if you wanna play the right way.

Are you being obtuse on purpose or something? First of all, you don't use quarter circle to do Shoryuken. Second, Modern players can do them without the motion so what does it have to do with anything?

[Zer0]

Dang son you put a lot of effort into this bait

[peacesFGC twitch.tv]

it's not about combos. it's about instant specials and supers. modern was made for noobs to get used to the game. they were not meant to be exploited by cheap pro players with no honor.

[C1REX]

Originally posted by peacesFGC twitch.tv:

it's not about combos. it's about instant specials and supers. modern was made for noobs to get used to the game. they were not meant to be exploited by cheap pro players with no honor.

Instant inputs makes close to zero difference when you can manually buffer anyway. It makes literally zero difference for specials for charged charackters when even on modern controls you need to charge.
You also get 25%-50% damage buff + better range with manual inputs for specials and flat 25% buff for supers.

[LdyAftermath1hand gamer]

Originally posted by Benkei Kuruma:

In the immortal words of the great Chad Warden, "We ain't doing geometry. We tryin to play some gaaaaames."

And that's what classic controls ain't got. It ain't got games.

I just want to have a good time here. If you want SF to be your life, have at it. I don't want to study all day and treat this like a professional sport. I got kids, a house, a job, a workout schedule and diet I try to maintain, and I'm tired. I don't have the stamina I used to, I don't have summer vacations. I be falling asleep playing games these days. If anything I feel like "sportifying" these games has turned me off from many of them over the years. Same goes for shooters and other genres.

Gimme those casual modern controls. I'm just tryin to play some gaaaaames.

I'm with this guy right here.

[Spooky7.62]

Its dumb, most modern players all play the same.

Its boring to fight and it makes little sense in a game with competitive scene.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Originally posted by Axx:

As a brand new player with only 22 hours played for the entire franchise history, while also being a millennial, I say your post is cope. As a new player I can even see why mixing modern controls with classic is a bad idea.

Input execution matters and learning matters. Modern controls bypass a good portion of that compared to classic controls. New players learning classic are forced into a disadvantage against new players playing with modern controls. Simple as.

With modern controls you need far less input execution. It gives a big advantage in the lower ranks where most new players will be.

modern bypasses execution so that people can focus on the other parts of the game that most people dont even realize exist. Im talking Oki, pressure, strings, stagger, wake up options, footsies, timing, defense, etc etc All of those things can more easily be worked on by the player if execution is set aside. If somebody in modern is beating you at low ranks then chances are they are beating you because they are not focusing on these aspects instead of worrying about inputs. If your losing to modern players, you should be using modern, so that you can also focus on things that arent execution if you want to.

[C1REX]

Originally posted by Spooky5.45:

Its dumb, most modern players all play the same.

Its boring to fight and it makes little sense in a game with competitive scene.

It makes the game more enjoyable for more people and competetive scene have no problem with modern.

Only one very specific group of people have problem with modern controls -
people who are really bad at the game and who want others to be bad. They get salty when others are having fun.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Originally posted by Shoah Kahn:

Direction inputs exist in fighting games in order gate abilities behind execution -- e.g., Zangief's SPD is a powerful attack and, thus, needs to have an input command that (i) is commensurate to its efficacy, and (ii) that slows down the execution of the ability in order keep it in line with human reaction speeds, and to maintain game balance. If someone can just mash SPD's in a block string to punish, all otherwise inherent timing, motor skill, and strategy are thrown out the window -- it's literally button-mashing to receive a high-damage punish.

For a game that is not explicitly designed, from the ground-up around simplified controls, just shoehorning something so game-changing in, invariable breaks things. Had they demarcated "Modern" from normal controls, this would not be an issue... However, doing so would have been, in "woke" vernacular, "skillist" -- as well as split the online component of the game -- thus, was not opted for by Capcom.

in case you arent aware. zangief can already mash spd on block string. Hes been able to for at least 2 games spanning 15 years now. Take it from a zangief main.

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Originally posted by RetroKid:

Originally posted by Sid:

not a modern player, but I want to address this anyway as I'm helping a friend learn via modern.

first thing's first, modern gives you the execution, and allows you to focus on the fundamentals. jumping in to classic from day 0, you'll have neither and struggle to pick up both. if you switch to classic after, you'll have solid fundamentals, so you'll be able to create opportunities to practice the execution.
I'm plat, and both my fundamentals and execution are still sorely lacking.

next up, is the idea that modern doesn't help you with the execution of classic at all & instead creates bad habits is just wrong.
most characters have at least one move that requires the classic inputs, and you will encounter situations where you want to use it, the example I gave my friend was standing heavy kick as a punish counter, into EX tatsu on ken, minimum execution, more reward on a punish that none of his other buttons have the reach to do.

auto combos aren't viable for every situation, sometimes you're going to want to combo off a normal, so you'll need to lab that in addition to the fundamentals like learning which normals can be canceled into drive rush or DI, safe block string, oki & frame traps.

and if you do end up going to classic, there's not that much of a difference between 6+button and 236+button, you're just adding an extra step to muscle memory.

That first paragraph is exactly what I'm talking about. How can you have fundamentals without fundamentals? That's like taking up actual fighting and then talking about what you're going to do. "When the guy swings, I'm going to duck and throw and overhead right and connect with his chin". But how are you going to do that if you don't know how to throw a punch or if you don't have the muscle memory to actually do what you think you can do? The fundamentals ARE the moves you use in response. Taking away the motions takes away the muscle memory and the skill, and leaves nothing but armchair EVO champs who start each sentence with, "I would have dp'd there, then followed with an optimal combo". It's easy to say, but CAN YOU DO IT? that's the reason we marvel at Daigo, not because he can hit combos. desk hits crazy combos but you don't see him making top 8. Daigo has combined the execution with the knowledge. You can't just modern control it and say, "yeah, I would have done that optimal combo. Give me the benefit of the doubt that I know the right thing to do and just assign me a button to do it with". It's retarded.

Except this ignores the clear fact that we have no M users in tournament. Because it doesnt actually give that kind of advantage. Or all the pros WOULD be using it. Because the prize pool is insane and theres no reason not to take any advantage you can.

You're trying to say that not having to focus on execution somehow makes you pro level or gives you clout enough to comment on pro play, when in reality the game is so much more than just execution of inputs, and people have always been the type to judge regardless of skill level. Nobody takes random opinions seriously UNLESS they are good.

[peacesFGC twitch.tv]

would u have a problem with pros using aim assist in fps tournies?

[Spooky7.62]

Originally posted by C1REX-PL:

Originally posted by Spooky5.45:

Its dumb, most modern players all play the same.

Its boring to fight and it makes little sense in a game with competitive scene.

It makes the game more enjoyable for more people and competetive scene have no problem with modern.

Only one very specific group of people have problem with modern controls -
people who are really bad at the game and who want others to be bad. They get salty when others are having fun.

Well im glad their having fun, but im certainly not every modern user does the same auto over and over until they get SA, then they do that same combo into SA.

Enjoyment literally comes from learning, which modern controls, arent truly allowing players to do, it just gives them a shortcut to bypass executions that in the past would have taken practice.