TMNTSR is a pizza party, but dudes only ordered Ham and Pineapple, Cheese and Tomato.... and Rola Cola.

[mrcyco]

Just to be clear. I AM A DIRTY, BUTTON MASHING, NO SKILL, GEN'X, MAN CHILD!

And I do like TMNTSR, but I wanted to love it.

I think the biggest problem with TMNTSR is the game doesn't change. there is no alternative routes, no + mode, no weapons to unlock. Once completed you've seen it all.

I think for TMNTSR to really shine there needs to be at least one mode with a solid run variations mechanic. There needs to be a proper story mode, with meaningful upgrades, buffs and debuffs (like Deadcells or Hades). There is no "loot" to appease the loot god (or "My ADHD" as my psychotherapist refers to it). Replay would be more interesting if weapon had variations. Who wouldn't want to see electric damage from Aprils mic, or Mikey's N'chucks causing a spinning stun/dizzy. Yes, I know "Roguelikes" are not everyone's cup of tea. but, they do keep the grind fresh.

Of course this is not the "tradition" of these kind of games. But the original "difficulty" of any beat em ups was shaking your mum down for another 30p.... So short of me getting my mum around to shout "dinners ready" every few minutes... I need more reasons other than nostalgia and radicalism to keep the blood pumping, and for me to part with my metaphorical pocket money.

Anyone agree, or have their own thoughts?

[Sledge]

Yeah. The multiple routes or paths in similar way how later Metal Slug games had them (I know, it's a different genre. Let's Just mention the feature).

Heck. Panic in The Sky Stage mostly takes place above the ocean according to the World Map, so they had an opportunity to make 2 ways to complete the previous stage, Roof Running Reptiles, where Bebop and Rocksteady calls Armaggon for help instead of Wingnut and chase him instead, especially considering that in the animated intro we see Turtles riding the surfboards in one scene.

[Radical Rat]

Originally posted by Sledge:

Yeah. The multiple routes or paths in similar way how later Metal Slug games had them (I know, it's a different genre. Let's Just mention the feature).

Fight n Rage nailed route system and it's also a beat 'em up game, where on first screen you can already pick two totally different paths. It also has a table with 56 different endings because of it ( not a joke )

It's a little bit too drastic change to add anything similar to TMNT:SR, but optional levels here and there with minor story tweaks would definitely improve replay value

[mrcyco]

Originally posted by Axelhander:

None of those are necessary. Sounds like this isn't the game for you. And that's fine. Not every game needs to be everything to everybody.

Why do you not think its my kind of game?

If this was a "Arcade perfect" remake like The Capcom Beat'em up Collection or The Cowabunga collection, then I wouldn't be posting this. They are remakes/collections and are representative of the era the original games were made. This however is not a remake. This is a new entry to a franchise. It a new game with two modes that are all but the same (save one having rudimentary levelling). The art style/combat mechanics have been updated and havent just been lifted directly from the older games. Its even has a new story. So why couldnt they have gone further and put in more variation in to the modes and story?

If it wasn't a TMNT game, it would be a £5-10 indie title and people would probably pan it for lack of content. Gaming has evolved. Most retroesque games now have QOL changes, rush modes, randomly generated levels, daily challenges, debuff runs, multiple routes, loot, permadeath etc. None play exactly the way games did 20-30 years ago. Even Dungeons & Dragons ToD/SoM had multi paths, wildly different characters variation, and loot/random drops 30 years ago. TMNT feels emaciated in comparison.

Maybe none of my options interest you, maybe you wouldn't buy if it had more game modes, maybe you dont like options, maybe you prefer simple (wouldn't try to guess you based on one statement). Regardless, not every game mode needs to be everything to everybody. But more options would mean TMNT wouldn't just keep the simple people happy

[mrcyco]

Originally posted by Sledge:

Yeah. The multiple routes or paths in similar way how later Metal Slug games had them (I know, it's a different genre. Let's Just mention the feature).

Heck. Panic in The Sky Stage mostly takes place above the ocean according to the World Map, so they had an opportunity to make 2 ways to complete the previous stage, Roof Running Reptiles, where Bebop and Rocksteady calls Armaggon for help instead of Wingnut and chase him instead, especially considering that in the animated intro we see Turtles riding the surfboards in one scene.

Totally agree! even if the had things like falling off takes you back a stage. or forces you a longer route. Time limited paths could be another option, or paths only available for different team ups forcing people to coop. you could even have split routes that splits 6 players down different team up routes (online coop). there are so many options.

I honestly think weapon/state upgrades just makes sense, and wouldn't have been hard to implement. You could have so much fun mixing bandanas, weapons, pendants etc. Nothing serious or game breaking just adding fun state bonuses that gives a little more depth and repeatability

[Mumrah]

I come from only playing TMNT4 because I know the rest are not worth playing, cept for the arcade 4 player one. This game is 4 times longer than that. With many many more set pieces and gimmicks.

This game has a lot of levels that are lengthy. Alternate paths will only work in Arcade mode. Even then, you will complain that you have seen it all once you've played all the paths.

The highlight are the player characters and their fighting styles. In Deadcells, the weapons are the main feature. It would be pointless to have 6 playable characters only to ignore their playstyles for items.

Story mode is fine and hearken to the basic stories that were TMNT cartoons.

Buff and debuffs.
The easiest thing I could see adding to match what you want are modifiers. This would be modifiers to basic gameplay. Take damage by standing still, walk or move slower, do less damage, No special gauge, take more damage, take damage from jumping, unable to grab, unable to run, unable to jump, and so on.

The game features a hard mode for you to play. Try it on Arcade without using a continue. If you have done so, check out my thread on MODS and install one that further increases the difficulty.

I just find this thread odd. Asking to put mechanics that work in one genre into a totally different one. The thread is essentially asking to make this game, Deadcells. The point of a beat'em up is to feel powerful and the satisfaction of fighting. The replayability comes from that feeling. The feeling to hit something and it feel good. This game is not a collect-a-thon with forced slow progression that go on forever. It's a quick satisfying experience.

Someone mentioned Fight 'N Rage. It plays like a fighting game in a beat'em up. With multiple paths to take. The replay comes from you actually finishing the game.

Dragon's Crown is a beat'em up with gear with characters with different fighting styles.

Randomly generated levels are very hard to balance, plus, beat'em ups are basically a linear path with maybe a hole or obstacle in the way. They need a place to fight.
Falling down a hole leading to a different level is nice. How will this work in online play? A troll keeps falling down, forcing you to go too?

The game is sprite-based. This means they would have to draw each weapon for every character for each of their sprites, by hand. What about weapon attack animations?

I love more options but they need to make sense and be worth investing time in.

Boss Rush is the typical mode to add.
Speerun Mode with speedrun features will be welcome.
Multiple Colors for the fighters.

[mrcyco]

Originally posted by Axelhander:

Originally posted by mrcyco:

Why do you not think its my kind of game?

If this was a "Arcade perfect" remake like The Capcom Beat'em up Collection or The Cowabunga collection, then I wouldn't be posting this. They are remakes/collections and are representative of the era the original games were made. This however is not a remake. This is a new entry to a franchise. It a new game with two modes that are all but the same (save one having rudimentary levelling). The art style/combat mechanics have been updated and havent just been lifted directly from the older games. Its even has a new story. So why couldnt they have gone further and put in more variation in to the modes and story?

If it wasn't a TMNT game, it would be a £5-10 indie title and people would probably pan it for lack of content. Gaming has evolved. Most retroesque games now have QOL changes, rush modes, randomly generated levels, daily challenges, debuff runs, multiple routes, loot, permadeath etc. None play exactly the way games did 20-30 years ago. Even Dungeons & Dragons ToD/SoM had multi paths, wildly different characters variation, and loot/random drops 30 years ago. TMNT feels emaciated in comparison.

Maybe none of my options interest you, maybe you wouldn't buy if it had more game modes, maybe you dont like options, maybe you prefer simple (wouldn't try to guess you based on one statement). Regardless, not every game mode needs to be everything to everybody. But more options would mean TMNT wouldn't just keep the simple people happy

You're an idiiot.

You are*.

(I may very well be an idiot, but let us not be heathens.)

Disregarding the grammar, your response proved thought provoking, yet simple. You exceeded my expectations!

Well done.

[mrcyco]

Originally posted by Mumrah:

I come from only playing TMNT4 because I know the rest are not worth playing, cept for the arcade 4 player one. This game is 4 times longer than that. With many many more set pieces and gimmicks.

This game has a lot of levels that are lengthy. Alternate paths will only work in Arcade mode. Even then, you will complain that you have seen it all once you've played all the paths.

The highlight are the player characters and their fighting styles. In Deadcells, the weapons are the main feature. It would be pointless to have 6 playable characters only to ignore their playstyles for items.

Story mode is fine and hearken to the basic stories that were TMNT cartoons.

Buff and debuffs.
The easiest thing I could see adding to match what you want are modifiers. This would be modifiers to basic gameplay. Take damage by standing still, walk or move slower, do less damage, No special gauge, take more damage, take damage from jumping, unable to grab, unable to run, unable to jump, and so on.

The game features a hard mode for you to play. Try it on Arcade without using a continue. If you have done so, check out my thread on MODS and install one that further increases the difficulty.

I just find this thread odd. Asking to put mechanics that work in one genre into a totally different one. The thread is essentially asking to make this game, Deadcells. The point of a beat'em up is to feel powerful and the satisfaction of fighting. The replayability comes from that feeling. The feeling to hit something and it feel good. This game is not a collect-a-thon with forced slow progression that go on forever. It's a quick satisfying experience.

Someone mentioned Fight 'N Rage. It plays like a fighting game in a beat'em up. With multiple paths to take. The replay comes from you actually finishing the game.

Dragon's Crown is a beat'em up with gear with characters with different fighting styles.

Randomly generated levels are very hard to balance, plus, beat'em ups are basically a linear path with maybe a hole or obstacle in the way. They need a place to fight.
Falling down a hole leading to a different level is nice. How will this work in online play? A troll keeps falling down, forcing you to go too?

The game is sprite-based. This means they would have to draw each weapon for every character for each of their sprites, by hand. What about weapon attack animations?

I love more options but they need to make sense and be worth investing time in.

Boss Rush is the typical mode to add.
Speerun Mode with speedrun features will be welcome.
Multiple Colors for the fighters.

Interesting! Honestly a really insighttful point of view!

However, it seems that people think I am suggesting ditching the main game entirely. I am more offering alternatives play styles. Happy to keep arcade as it is. but change up story or adding additional modes to give more options.

Additions like multi paths, could mean having routes that leave out some of the levels you aren't keen on (like the flying levels/certain bosses) and as I suggested, certain routes could be only open to particular characters or certain team ups (the cartoon often had one group doing one task while the other group does another.). Maybe players go through the exit they prefer and if there is no clear winner the normal route is chosen by default (just a suggestion)

Not sure I agree that that the mechanics suggested come from a different genre. There are other Beat'em ups that use these sorts of mechanics. Castle Crushers, injustice 2 (I know it's not the same) and the formetioned D&D ToD/SoM (all I can think of at the moment) all use ad-hoc collectables to change the pace and game play.

I wouldn't consider the character variations so radical that they couldn't benefit from some fun stat changes, and again I am not suggesting losing the core game play entirely (Arcade is the perfect places for a consistent playthough).

As for sprite changes or RNG levels. You absolutely know more than me. Maybe simple colour pallette swaps or similar would suffice. RNG could just be fun. In fairness, it's a game about four mutant turtles, a rat and two humans, stopping an Alien turning the Statue of Liberty in to his own personal mechsuit (I'm not sure "making sense" is really that important to the franchise) but hey, I am just opening up a discussion (the reason for this post).

The way I see it, If there wasn't a "want" for variation, there wouldn't be mods. I assume, the very reason there are, is because people like options. I know I would get a lot more enjoyment playing the story (raising everyones EXP) if there was something to make it less monotonous.