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I think his combo starters are bit slower. I think raph has the fastest jab, or casey. this is particularly useful when dealing with an enemy getting up.
his rising attack also hits faster, but last longer and leaves him more vulnerable during. this makes it inferior to april's rising against black sai foot.
but yeah, his fourth combo attack does hit behind him. it's unique, but I don't think it's particularly useful. if more of his combo hits hit behind them, then maybe, but a 2 damage hit that requires specific setup isn't too great.
1- Mikey's a+b stays closer and could then be considered safer than April's
2- grabs are great for crowd control, no matter how you put it, they're useful
3- following up 'with any character' can be done with a+b, but Mikey can follow up with a simple string, making it much safer than any other character
4- my only reference for Mikey doing more dmg was his stats line, which is certainly not the best reference but I thought of mentioning it anyway. Could it be that he is considered to do more dmg because he attacks faster?
5- hitting people behind with his string and with his heavy attack happens really often, you'd know if you actually had played Mikey before
6- His bouncing off heads is awesome, it's great in combos where you just start spamming his bounce after going air (not many attacks will hit you in the air), you can string jump over flying bees (like 7 in a row sometimes) or use it as a mean to keep comboing while dodging many boss's attacks. combo string, a+b, bounce off to the other side as the boss tries to counter.
I want to tell you that most of the points you're trying to make are ultimately subjective. If they were to change his slide, I don't think I could even play Mikey anymore since it is such an integral part to his gameplay and has its uses. I'm way too use to start my combos with his slide.
I honestly try to avoid grabbing enemies in this game with the exception of throwing foot at Chrome Dome. They're too slow to preform and you can take damage while preforming them. The biggest perk is probably that you can't be flinched while preforming them and hit multiple enemies with the enemy you throw, But the risk verse reward is heavily leaning towards more risk with little reward in the long run. I can often crowd control way more efficiently with normal attacks IMO.
There you go.
Let's go guys.
But ultimately the best answer is this:
I see your point, but on my part I do use crowd control sometimes given the right situation and against the right mobs. Mikey's throw is fast and he throws far. His speed allows him to get in pretty quickly. I don't speak for a fact here but I believe his side throw might be the best in the game. It's not something I use all the time but sometimes there are clear situations where I can just grab a guy and sweep the whole screen with him instead of trying to deal with a hairy situation. Once they're all packed on the ground I just slide in and start comboing them all to oblivion.
I believe when you play a character for hours you get to start using his gimmicks pretty well and you can turn 'weaknesses' into what makes them actually strong. A lot of things that people say about Mikey here are actually strengths to me.
1) stays closer to what? mikey's rising attack stays in the air longer than april, and stays longer without hitting (it does 3 hits max and does them faster, so he has more animation after landing all 3 hits). this gives enemies more time to recover after attacking. furthermore, his dive is significantly less safe, giving him fewer options to follow it up with.
2) while grabs can be useful, they're too big a risk. if there are any projectiles on screen, throws trap you in an animation where you can't dodge. on gnarly, throws will pretty much just get you killed. plus, throws are not even a factor when there are no foot on screen. it's an utterly worthless option against the wheelie robots, mousers, laser robots and any enemy with 10+ health.
3) every other character can follow up with a simple string too, especially raph. he's the king of comboing off slider attack, and his jab is faster than mikey's. the fact here is that everyone has the same option as mikey, to slide into combo, but they also have other better options and can deal with a crowd of foot, which is much more important in group games, especially on gnarly.
4) the star stats are kinda garbo. the only thing that can be considered more powerful on mikey might be his combo hit 3, which does a hard knockdown and can flip laser robots, while most characters do not until hit 4, except maybe splinter. His dps is slower than most other characters overall too, with april flat out outclassing him in this regard (primarily because she can combo faster with her dive kick and builds meter faster). mikey is better at catching an enemy and continuing a combo, but april just combos better and faster.
https://www.twitch.tv/falseboo/clip/CarelessAltruisticDovePRChase-oCeq0pohTPabYpUR
here is an example of april solo taking out dirtbag and groundchuck on gnarly in 9 seconds. mikey cannot do this.
5) I play mikey all the time on gnarly, and no, if an enemy is behind you, you typically get punched, you cannot rely on this fourth hit to cover your back. timing such a thing is ridiculous. you're better off canceling your combo into a dash attack and knocking enemies away, or dodging backwards and flying attack into a combo to keep all foot on one side of you.
now, accidentally hitting enemies that are being knocked up in the air during multiplayer chaos? maybe. but you're far more likely to do the team homerun strike anyway. I find team attacks to be worthless and generally unsafe, which make certain attacks all the more risky in multiplayer. makes dive kicks and standing jabs even more unsafe, which hurts mikey even more. his bouncing dive sequence makes the chances of a homerun toss to happen, which can screw over both players involved.
6) the bounce is utterly worthless against one enemy, as you can't hit that same enemy until falling onto the ground. it can hit multiple enemies, but still only does 1 damage, so you're very unlikely to kill anything. april and splinter can just dive kick across the screen repeatedly and kill all the weaker 2 damage foot.
and yes, mikey's bounce is good against some bosses, like leatherhead in particular.
all my points are objective. my stance is somewhat subjective as I've factored in the pros and cons to mikey's kit. you keep either saying things I've said mikey can do well, but you put more importance on it than it merits. you insist the pros count for more, when other characters have more pros, and less cons. especially with moves that are more powerful in the game, like slides, dash attacks, infinites, and supers.
yes, they're all objective and I'm the subjective one. I presented every reason why mikey is the weaker character, and anyone who can actually discuss the game competently (doesn't go off the star values and can actually discuss how to take down specific enemies , can discuss all character's strength and weaknesses)
people you cite are just blindly defending mikey because they like him as a character. I like mikey as a character, but he's gimped and really needs a buff.
people saying "I like mikey", and "a mikey player was the best on our team on gnarly". I've played as mikey and been the best on the team on gnarly. it's not hard, there are a lot of bad players out there that rely on the taunt spam crutch then fall to pieces on any boss. worse yet, this is just hearsay. there's no footage of mikey dominating, and videos showcasing character analysises all showcase mikey's disadvantages and place him as lower than the other characters.
for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1pQM2L24Kc&t=625s
yeah, this is exactly it. the other characters have better kits. mikey still has enough to do well in the game, but the other characters can do just as well with less effort. he just has less options and does less damage.
this is called making due. other characters can do better crowd control with slide attacks. does more damage and hits more enemies. mikey's throw does 2 damage to the thrown foot and does 1 damage per hit to other foot. everyone's slide attack does 2 damage to all the foot in range, and sets them up for a combo, while throwing is not very combo friendly.
Mikey seems to preform grabs moves faster then other characters at least, at least compared to splinter and raph. Haven't tested everyone bare in mind. Means he has a little less risk when preforming them. But grabs still have other issues associated with them, like locking you in the animation when you preform, making dodging impossible.
Actually learned something from that. Didn't know you can cover more ground with Aprils and Raphs supers by dashing before hand.
I've also seen a move not listed, not sure how it's preformed though. But it looks like Micky gets tossed by another character at an enemy.
Did it twice in one match, looked like he dive kicks towards a teammate, and then rebounds ( or tossed by ) the character he dives towards.
Mikey's combo has more range than April's and his launch attack can be followed with a slide and further combos. April's slide will go through and possibly get you in an unsafe spot. Your video only proved that Mikey's a+b is basically identical to April's except Mikey doesn't launch the mob as far as April making it safer for followups. Look at 1:50. Throws are legit and deadly in the right circumstances. Mikey's taunt is faster than April's.
You're being objective just stating your preferences in playstyle. The two play differently mainly because of the slide and the dive, and both have their functions and can be played well in the right hands. I couldn't imagine playing Mikey without his slide that's unique to him, I feel much safer using it than any other slide and definitely in a better position for followups with his combo strings.
Lots of nice info from your vid.
that's the homerun toss or something like that. it's a team attack. dive kick at a teammate as any character. they have to standing jab as you dive kick, this will initiate the move. it's very bad, does 2 damage and leaves both players fairly vulnerable after it is complete. not recommended to do.
april's slide can go through enemies. just like mikey's slide can be planned out so it stops in front of an enemy so you can just combo, april's slide depends on the player. basically, you're saying "if you play april poorly, you will be in a bad place". I'm saying "if you play mikey well, you're at a disadvantage compared to playing other characters well.
you're also just saying things that are completely untrue. you're just making stuff up on the fly and pretending it makes sense. "Mikey doesn't launch the mob as far as April making it safer for followups." this doesn't make it any safer or less safe for followups, it just means you have less distance to travel for a follow up, and has absolutely NO bearing on safeness. why would it be less safe? is the air time different? april can get through enemies with her slide to keep juggling, while if mikey launches the enemy on the other side of a box, he can't really chase, as the box will stop both his running attacks. if there is an enemy between him and the launched foe, he also cannot chase.
and no, I've never stated my preference in playstyle at all. nothing here is part of playstyle, everything you've said is based on your playstyle, and that's it. I've listed enemies and potential approaches to attacking them. that's not playstyle, those are available options. mikey has less options and has less viable options on my enemies. I can name exact stages and sections where characters shine and struggle, and even mikey has some areas where he shines, but they're far and few between.
you've only made vague statements like "it doesn't stun like mikey's" or "it's safer" or "it's easier to combo". you never have any details on why or how any of this is true.
you've said you can bounce on multiple enemy heads with his bounce, which is true. but I then point out why this isn't particularly good, and you attribute that to "playstyle" april objectively outdamages anything mikey does with a bounce. period. no arguments there.
and all characters can use a rising attack to avoid a boss counter. mikey's bounce on bosses is safer on bosses than most character's options, but the damage is low compared to other character's options. leo's somersault strike is a better option, and more applicable outside of boss battles.