Tactical Axes or Knives?

[Derpro]

With 3 mks of tactical axe and two mks for the catachan knives, there's plenty of nice mobile weapon options for the 3 classes.

Which has the best line-up of weapons overall?

Although I acknowledge the strengths of the knives and lacerate and other very strong blessings, I lean on the axes being better options overall if you can get brutal momentum at any tier. I find them to be more versatile with their inherent armor piercing, fast attacks for cleaning out hordes and with better shove and special attacks for crowd control.

[Arani]

Tbh I think both knives and tac axes could use some work. They're in that category of "works but definitely not S-tier". Fun to do something different but they never really shine. I would be happy to be proven wrong however. :>

[insufferable-child]

Publicado originalmente por Arani:

Tbh I think both knives and tac axes could use some work. They're in that category of "works but definitely not S-tier". Fun to do something different but they never really shine. I would be happy to be proven wrong however. :>

knives have some of the highest sustained dps in the game right now and confer a lot of secondary benefits like high mobility and a free stagger button

[Commander Hitman2b]

Publicado originalmente por Derpro:

With 3 mks of tactical axe and two mks for the catachan knives, there's plenty of nice mobile weapon options for the 3 classes.

Which has the best line-up of weapons overall?

Although I acknowledge the strengths of the knives and lacerate and other very strong blessings, I lean on the axes being better options overall if you can get brutal momentum at any tier. I find them to be more versatile with their inherent armor piercing making, faster at cleaning out hordes and with better shove and special attacks for crowd control.

both good for single target , tho i'll go knife if you plan to go for assassination

[2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE]

Publicado originalmente por Arani:

Tbh I think both knives and tac axes could use some work. They're in that category of "works but definitely not S-tier". Fun to do something different but they never really shine. I would be happy to be proven wrong however. :>

I would like another Combat Blade that just vertical stabs on light attacks, even if for a bit less damage, without having to either loop heavy attacks or special into light over and over again.

[Dragon]

Publicado originalmente por Arani:

Tbh I think both knives and tac axes could use some work. They're in that category of "works but definitely not S-tier". Fun to do something different but they never really shine. I would be happy to be proven wrong however. :>

Knife is bar none the best zealot weapon, agreed upon by many. It doesn't quite have the same punch on vet since vets bonuses work towards weakspots instead of crits, but you can consistently 3 shot crushers in the head with the right build. Mk6 knife also has an incredibly powerful and precise push attack that gets overlooked (can also swipe it similar to the dueling sword stabs).

Tac axes are a perfect 'middle ground' weapon, like their brethren in the combat axes. With the right builds on vet I just push over breakpoints on one shotting all standard enemies in the heads with heavy swings/BM, but tac axe maintains incredibly high assassin/single target dps at the same time. Not as much as a specialized build of course, but tac axe does a good amount of everything. The special stagger is also enough to perma stagger damnation ragers and stop crushers from doing overheads.

[❛❛Vénttea❜❜]

Depends on the class.

Psyker, Veteran and Zealot perform the best with knives.
Veteran and Zealot perform the best with Tac Axes.

Certain MKs are best on certain classes.

MK6 Knife is best on Veteran and Psyker for horde and damage multipliers with single target capabilities.

MK3 Knife is best on Zealot, especially with Lacerate for easy free crits with scourge and since Zealot can have insane ATK Speed the MK3 can essentially be a MK6 with stronger single target capabilities.

Tac7 Axe lights do well and push attack, heavy is the same combo as the old Eviscerator (reversed) which is for good horde control. Also it does a strike down as its first heavy which is quite nice. Works great on both Zealot and Veteran.

Tac2 Axe lights is really good, hits a bit harder and the heavies are all sweep while good, is weaker than the Tac7. The mobility somehow feels slower (Could just be me). Also works well on Zealot and Veteran.

Tac4 Axe light is fine, however all its heavies are single target and imo this works best with Zealot as works more like a MK3 Knife.

Personally, this is my assessment that I tried out and I am more of a Knife User Main across 3 Human-sized Classes. The knife does however outperform the Tac Axe on Veteran regardless of what knife you use.

Tac Axe and Knife feels kind of similar on Zealot, although the difference is the light attacks and horde clear is very noticeable and the heavies to non-carapace as well. However the Knife is just all round better for on Carapace and Unyielding targets and has the best single target push attack between them and better patterns, it also has more mobility than the Tac Axe.

I would honestly say, Knife is just better all round and better to use. The edge Tac Axe has over Knife is the Block Efficiency and its Special can Stagger. However Tac Axe is easier to build since its quite specific and Knife has more versatility in its build to make it work with both Blessings and Perks.

However, both have skill ceilings to be met and both can be high. It's easy to pick up but its harder to climb and you can tell a good knife user, a mediocre one and a bad one by simply just seeing how they used it or how often they go down. The easiest dead giveaway is how they deal with Ragers.

[varicose 'vascular' vinny]

The tactical axe could do a bit more carapace damage, like literally 0.05 more carapace mod and I would like it. It really hamstrings your build variety towards dunking them which is actually why I use it most on psyker. You can slide spam for mobility and trauma elites that the taxe is bad at.

Combat knife is the best weapon in the game, but it is extremely input intensive to make maximum value out of. What makes it the best is the safety and all target effectiveness.

[Arani]

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

Publicado originalmente por Arani:

Tbh I think both knives and tac axes could use some work. They're in that category of "works but definitely not S-tier". Fun to do something different but they never really shine. I would be happy to be proven wrong however. :>

Knife is bar none the best zealot weapon, agreed upon by many. It doesn't quite have the same punch on vet since vets bonuses work towards weakspots instead of crits, but you can consistently 3 shot crushers in the head with the right build. Mk6 knife also has an incredibly powerful and precise push attack that gets overlooked (can also swipe it similar to the dueling sword stabs).

Yeah so (some) people say. Yet I've made great knives for my zelly, psykers and vet both bleed & crit and just weakspot dmg using them with the many talents each offer. And yet even with a macro for the spam I just don't like them, other than for the novelty of doing something different. They're from bad to mid against hordes, require a lot of effort in general for all the mobility and constant dodging and low base stagger needing you to manage every minutiae at all times, and depend hightly on specific builds and talents to really work at all.

For psykers a DSIV is just better in about every way save for spamming a bosses head, as if you ever got to do that much with how they move around anyway nvm it's always gonna be a Chaosspawn. For vets just about anything is better, from Combat Axes to Chainswords to the Power Sword (with Power Cycler & BM or Sunder ofc). And with zellies Combat Axes, Chainswords, heck even Evi just does the same thing but more with a fraction of the effort. Even if you go for a crit build, a Shred / BM AntAxe is a hundred times comfier, better for hordes and mixed hordes, and more than good enough for the heavies you don't just end up shooting anyway.

Do you have a build you might want to post that I could try? Because I'd really like to learn to love the knife.

[Derpro]

Publicado originalmente por Arani:

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

Knife is bar none the best zealot weapon, agreed upon by many. It doesn't quite have the same punch on vet since vets bonuses work towards weakspots instead of crits, but you can consistently 3 shot crushers in the head with the right build. Mk6 knife also has an incredibly powerful and precise push attack that gets overlooked (can also swipe it similar to the dueling sword stabs).

Yeah so (some) people say. Yet I've made great knives for my zelly, psykers and vet both bleed & crit and just weakspot dmg using them with the many talents each offer. And yet even with a macro for the spam I just don't like them, other than for the novelty of doing something different. They're from bad to mid against hordes, require a lot of effort in general for all the mobility and constant dodging and low base stagger needing you to manage every minutiae at all times, and depend hightly on specific builds and talents to really work at all.

For psykers a DSIV is just better in about every way save for spamming a bosses head, as if you ever got to do that much with how they move around anyway nvm it's always gonna be a Chaosspawn. For vets just about anything is better, from Combat Axes to Chainswords to the Power Sword (with Power Cycler & BM or Sunder ofc). And with zellies Combat Axes, Chainswords, heck even Evi just does the same thing but more with a fraction of the effort. Even if you go for a crit build, a Shred / BM AntAxe is a hundred times comfier, better for hordes and mixed hordes, and more than good enough for the heavies you don't just end up shooting anyway.

Do you have a build you might want to post that I could try? Because I'd really like to learn to love the knife.

For Zealot how do you feel about Crushers? (The two handed spiked power mace, not the enemy type)

[Arani]

Publicado originalmente por Derpro:

Publicado originalmente por Arani:

...

For Zealot how do you feel about Crushers? (The two handed spiked power mace, not the enemy type)

That's a random off-topic question. xD

But I like them, lackluster for dmg ofc but good enough while fantastic for CC and survivability in general. Martyrdom also works great for them given their CC makes it easy to take no dmg, while the massive speed & dmg buff makes them decently strong too.

[Gottfried]

Publicado originalmente por 2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE:

I would like another Combat Blade that just vertical stabs on light attacks, even if for a bit less damage, without having to either loop heavy attacks or special into light over and over again.

Push attacks are your friend. They are amazing on both knives.

[shnappy]

Publicado originalmente por Arani:

Publicado originalmente por Dragon:

Knife is bar none the best zealot weapon, agreed upon by many. It doesn't quite have the same punch on vet since vets bonuses work towards weakspots instead of crits, but you can consistently 3 shot crushers in the head with the right build. Mk6 knife also has an incredibly powerful and precise push attack that gets overlooked (can also swipe it similar to the dueling sword stabs).

Yeah so (some) people say. Yet I've made great knives for my zelly, psykers and vet both bleed & crit and just weakspot dmg using them with the many talents each offer. And yet even with a macro for the spam I just don't like them, other than for the novelty of doing something different. They're from bad to mid against hordes, require a lot of effort in general for all the mobility and constant dodging and low base stagger needing you to manage every minutiae at all times, and depend hightly on specific builds and talents to really work at all.

For psykers a DSIV is just better in about every way save for spamming a bosses head, as if you ever got to do that much with how they move around anyway nvm it's always gonna be a Chaosspawn. For vets just about anything is better, from Combat Axes to Chainswords to the Power Sword (with Power Cycler & BM or Sunder ofc). And with zellies Combat Axes, Chainswords, heck even Evi just does the same thing but more with a fraction of the effort. Even if you go for a crit build, a Shred / BM AntAxe is a hundred times comfier, better for hordes and mixed hordes, and more than good enough for the heavies you don't just end up shooting anyway.

Do you have a build you might want to post that I could try? Because I'd really like to learn to love the knife.

The mk 6 will give you horde clear with nearly the same single target damage as mk 3. I personally find it too weird and stick with the 3. While not cleaving through hordes with it you are one-two shotting basically anything you see. The heavy - special - light combo is massive and fast for damage once you get it down, plus the special staggers like anything.

I personally run knife with stealth. Take the right side through throwing knife. Loner aura (I know) with the the 2 nodes above it on the left fork ( the wrath be swift and +50% stagger on weak spot hit - this makes knife hits stagger like crazy lol) now you can opt for stealth or another good option is FotF. I prefer stealth just for popping big damage hits and you can get near instant CD. If you choose stealth I take the top and second sub nodes. Pair stealth with blazing piety - both sub nodes on the right. Pick up the +10% attack speed bottom middle. And bottom right pick up CD reduction on back stab kill. As long as you are getting back stabs (easy with your mobility) you have stealth 24/7. I find it nice paired with 100% rending on back attack blessing.

FotF pairs nicely with bottom right keystone. Using right sub node. Pick up the 10% attack speed (any zealot build should really) and the reduced CD on crit on the bottom left. Enjoy 10 million hits per second with all the attack speed.

They’re are fun builds fully capable of clutching and carrying auric, even if they are the most efficient. But if knife isn’t your play style then you may not like them.

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

the changes to Chaxes make either axes and knives redundant aside from using double bleed knives to pad your over damage stats

[shnappy]

Publicado originalmente por Grr. SG CMD Majah Lazah:

the changes to Chaxes make either axes and knives redundant aside from using double bleed knives to pad your over damage stats

Every weapon (on zealot) is redundant because Mk XV Heavy Evisc exists. Doesn't make other builds non viable or less fun, even in auric.

[BigCheese]

Publicado originalmente por ❛❛Anabriélla❜❜:

Depends on the class.

Psyker, Veteran and Zealot perform the best with knives.
Veteran and Zealot perform the best with Tac Axes.

Certain MKs are best on certain classes.

MK6 Knife is best on Veteran and Psyker for horde and damage multipliers with single target capabilities.

MK3 Knife is best on Zealot, especially with Lacerate for easy free crits with scourge and since Zealot can have insane ATK Speed the MK3 can essentially be a MK6 with stronger single target capabilities.

Tac7 Axe lights do well and push attack, heavy is the same combo as the old Eviscerator (reversed) which is for good horde control. Also it does a strike down as its first heavy which is quite nice. Works great on both Zealot and Veteran.

Tac2 Axe lights is really good, hits a bit harder and the heavies are all sweep while good, is weaker than the Tac7. The mobility somehow feels slower (Could just be me). Also works well on Zealot and Veteran.

Tac4 Axe light is fine, however all its heavies are single target and imo this works best with Zealot as works more like a MK3 Knife.

Personally, this is my assessment that I tried out and I am more of a Knife User Main across 3 Human-sized Classes. The knife does however outperform the Tac Axe on Veteran regardless of what knife you use.

Tac Axe and Knife feels kind of similar on Zealot, although the difference is the light attacks and horde clear is very noticeable and the heavies to non-carapace as well. However the Knife is just all round better for on Carapace and Unyielding targets and has the best single target push attack between them and better patterns, it also has more mobility than the Tac Axe.

I would honestly say, Knife is just better all round and better to use. The edge Tac Axe has over Knife is the Block Efficiency and its Special can Stagger. However Tac Axe is easier to build since its quite specific and Knife has more versatility in its build to make it work with both Blessings and Perks.

However, both have skill ceilings to be met and both can be high. It's easy to pick up but its harder to climb and you can tell a good knife user, a mediocre one and a bad one by simply just seeing how they used it or how often they go down. The easiest dead giveaway is how they deal with Ragers.

This is a great summary, thanks.