Scoreboard is not needed

[Pumis]

Since there was some heated debate about subject that was leading another thread being derailed. I decided to create proper channel for such discourse. I would like to use this thread as open platform for debate about subject without derailing other threads.

There is no need for scoreboard in co-operative game. In fact such thing does promote competitive and toxic behavior and is by it's nature against teamwork. Thus it doesn't really serve any purpose in game that is based on teamwork. Especially when teammates all does different roles, so comparing them with one another isn't going to achieve anything.
Such as if player X is build made for dealing damage, and player Y is made for staggering people around. Comparing which done did how much damage or stagger among themselves doesn't really serve any purpose. It doesn't tell is the guy doing stagger build being bad with it, nor does it tell is the damage dealer bad. Since both are specialized roles that doesn't try to achieve same things. One is for CC and protection and other one for killing power.

So what about testing builds?
I consider "testing builds" with scoreboard as excuse. Why? Because having something that shows statistics and max damage and other information in same way as witcher 3 provides and testing room is more than enough to have the necessary to see all the necessary breaking points needed.
Not only it's rude to do testing on other people's expense, but also would take thousands of games to actually have scientifically accurate sample size due to how many variables there are that affects results.
Personally I think that making information more visible for players in ways of stats/statistics would actually be very good idea. Having information hidden or bothersome to find out doesn't really serve any purpose (and yes I know that vermintide 2 had some hidden stats).
Stats/statistics window would make it more convenient to create different builds.

To summary:
Scoreboard doesn't serve any positive purpose in game based on teamwork where each party member is specialized in certain roles. In fact it does promote people ignoring teamwork and acting toxic.

Disclaimer:
Focus on the subject, any harassment and insults will be reported regarding who does them. In other words stay constructive.

Edit:
Conclusion:
Including statistics would be far more beneficial than scoreboard to the game and to the community.
After this conclusion was reached, the responds from other side just devolved into pure insults and nothing else, thus we can conclude debate as over.

[BigJ]

Pumis you ran off after been proven wrong and now you create a new discussion.

I won't list it again, there's many points of builds that without a scoreboard can't be looked at, having everything displayed neatly at the end instead of having to track it yourself is also a better option.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by BigJ:

Pumis you ran off after been proven wrong and now you create a new discussion.

I won't list it again, there's many points of builds that without a scoreboard can't be looked at, having everything displayed neatly at the end instead of having to track it yourself is also a better option.

I literally posted link to this thread. In the other discussion. Hardly counts as running off. And you immediately started with personal attacks. Hardly running away to create proper channel for the debate that isn't about derailing the subject of another topic.

You're free to provide any point that can't be done without scoreboard and I will provide solution like before. This time without threat of being banned for it.

[SamEstine]

You were discussing this in depth with others in another thread, and tbh they had better compelling arguments than yours (imho, with all due respect) why start it all over again?

From me I'd like to see how I performed. Why is that such a cardinal sin? Give us an option to trigger scoreboards on/off, to show personal stats only. Win/Win, no harm in that surely?

[BigJ]

Originally posted by Pumis:

Originally posted by BigJ:

Pumis you ran off after been proven wrong and now you create a new discussion.

I won't list it again, there's many points of builds that without a scoreboard can't be looked at, having everything displayed neatly at the end instead of having to track it yourself is also a better option.

I literally posted link to this thread. In the other discussion. Hardly counts as running off. And you immediately started with personal attacks. Hardly running away to create proper channel for the debate that isn't about derailing the subject of another topic.

No one derailed anything till you decided to stop responding to argumentation by victimizing yourself and accusing everyone of derailing.

Like you just did, didn't even adress the arguments yet again. Give a minute to repost it.

There's things that without a scoreboard are imposible to test.

Overkill damage been the worst one, total stagger, boss damage, damage mitigation effifiency, coherency efficiency, ammo efficiency (gl keeping track of all the ammo you picked up via veteran aura), the elites in mission and how many you dealt with, your amount of succesful dodges/blocks and so on.

A personal scoreboard with total elite and special enemy numbers would fix this. With an option to have your personal scoreboard visible to others at YOUR discretion.

Here, this is what you decided to derail by accusing me of attacking you.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by SamEstine:

You were discussing this in depth with others in another thread, and tbh they had better compelling arguments than yours (imho, with all due respect) why start it all over again?

From me I'd like to see how I performed. Why is that such a cardinal sin? Give us an option to trigger scoreboards on/off, to show personal stats only. Win/Win, no harm in that surely?

Another personal attacks?
They didn't have better arguments. They simply kept writing lengtier responses and ignored my points. I couldn't respond in proper manner since that would justify moderators to ban me for "derailing the thread". Thus creating actual proper channel for the debate so I can actually refute everything they throw no matter how many times they put it here.

"why start it all over again?"
This thread already gave reason. The debate there was derailing the thread. Some of those people have history of ban baiting people who have defended darktide and it was becoming that. Multiple people ganging up on same person while derailing the thread. Will make it look like that the one guy being ganged up on is being the one who is wrong and breaking the rules. This is proper thread for subject of the matter.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by BigJ:

Originally posted by Pumis:

I literally posted link to this thread. In the other discussion. Hardly counts as running off. And you immediately started with personal attacks. Hardly running away to create proper channel for the debate that isn't about derailing the subject of another topic.

No one derailed anything till you decided to stop responding to argumentation by victimizing yourself and accusing everyone of derailing.

Like you just did, didn't even adress the arguments yet again. Give a minute to repost it.

Topic of the thread was OP asking where to find Kill count, Revive Count, Damage Output. Not is scoreboard needed or not.

Edit:
Since you edited your argument:
"There's things that without a scoreboard are imposible to test.

Overkill damage been the worst one, total stagger, boss damage, damage mitigation effifiency, coherency efficiency, ammo efficiency (gl keeping track of all the ammo you picked up via veteran aura), the elites in mission and how many you dealt with, your amount of succesful dodges/blocks and so on.

A personal scoreboard with total elite and special enemy numbers would fix this. With an option to have your personal scoreboard visible to others at YOUR discretion."

1. Overall kill damage can be tested in training room by showing it the testing room.
2. Total stagger isn't useful information.
3. You can't get accurate boss damage due to variation of what other teammates do. Scoreboard doesn't show accurate info regarding to this. In fact having boss in the training room and letting you solo test it would be better option.
4. Damage mitigation has too much variation unless you can do that in training room.
5. Coherency efficiency also too many variables.
6. Ammo efficiency? Really? Does anyone here actually struggle to look at their ammo and not notice if they are running out of too fast? Also too many variables, such as horde encounters, specials, helping teammates etc...
7. How is elties in mission and how many dealt with relevant for you?
8. Succesful dodge/blocks isn't really needed. What matters is that did you survive your mission or not. In fact ideally if you do movement and combat correctly, you would actually have low dodge/block. With methods like weaving during combat.

[Босс Пикми]

tldr, scoreboard is ABSOLUTELY essesntial in any non-singleplayer game

[BigJ]

Originally posted by Pumis:

Originally posted by BigJ:

No one derailed anything till you decided to stop responding to argumentation by victimizing yourself and accusing everyone of derailing.

Like you just did, didn't even adress the arguments yet again. Give a minute to repost it.

Topic of the thread was OP asking where to find Kill count, Revive Count, Damage Output. Not is scoreboard needed or not.

Topics evolve. You still haven't responded to my argument.

[WhiteCrow]

Scoreboards or not, the fact so many people need numbers to tell them who sucked and who didn't is wild. If you were paying attention during the run, you'll know. Anything beyond that is literally just e-peen measuring and is ultimately pointless.

[ViNcEnT 12138]

score borads yes only when it show very very very specific stats, like dmg to boss, dmg to unamrored enemy, dmg to flak and cara enemy, stagger how many enemy, etc, this can tell how good you are at the role you suppose to play. Things like how many enemy you kill, how much dmg you did in total is non-sense and no point in co-op game.

[BigJ]

Originally posted by WhiteCrow:

Scoreboards or not, the fact so many people need numbers to tell them who sucked and who didn't is wild. If you were paying attention during the run, you'll know. Anything beyond that is literally just e-peen measuring and is ultimately pointless.

No one said you need one for this.

You need a scoreboard to see several stats of your own build that help fine tune it.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by BigJ:

Originally posted by Pumis:

Topic of the thread was OP asking where to find Kill count, Revive Count, Damage Output. Not is scoreboard needed or not.

Topics evolve. You still haven't responded to my argument.

Evolving topics is against steam's rules and I have been banned for that before. I'm not going to fall for ban traps. Which reminds me. Stick to the topic and check my edit since you edited your comment so I couldn't see your arguments.

[PJ]

I mean, we basically have the perfect situation. People who want it can have it, and people who don't want it don't have to see it. Nothing needs to change.

[Pumis]

Originally posted by דפקתי את אמא שלך:

tldr, scoreboard is ABSOLUTELY essesntial in any non-singleplayer game

what is the point of taking scores in game where you're not competing with otherplayers?

[SamEstine]

Originally posted by Pumis:

Originally posted by SamEstine:

You were discussing this in depth with others in another thread, and tbh they had better compelling arguments than yours (imho, with all due respect) why start it all over again?

From me I'd like to see how I performed. Why is that such a cardinal sin? Give us an option to trigger scoreboards on/off, to show personal stats only. Win/Win, no harm in that surely?

Another personal attacks?

Is that your thing? Playing victim card over and over?

Where was the personal attack in my previous comment? I simply asked you a question and expressed that I respected your arguments from the other thread, but disagreed with them.

I've read your comments in the other thread and read other peoples', your points weren't convincing to me. It's called a disagreement. Don't take offense to that.

To keep things on-point, I'd like the scoreboard for the reason I listed above, which you didn't even address nor argue against, your reasoning for justifying not having scoreboards is not compelling enough for me personally, thus my disagreement.