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(Novel), where the combat servitor's were Cybernetic Ogyrns. we could be seeing things like Heavybolters, Plasma cannons, and Mutli-lasers. stuff that would otherwise be impossible to wield as a Human by one self (your character isn't Browny, Bragg or Harken)
other things missing, for Veteran lacking some stuff which one might consider kind of Cool atleast interesting to use; Hotshot Lasguns (Ryza, Voss, and Cadian) Long-las/Marksman rifle, Meltagun, Plasma-pistol, Grenade launcher. i mean some of them could come in specific weaponary for a "branch" on a tree like a Stormtrooper branch which basically locks you down towards the more Temepstus scion/Karskin weaponary. which would add in some for of uniqueness around it, for a insteant, a remote Mine or Bomb as a grenade, a Hotshot vollygun as a Ulitmate like Bardin's steamgun, locking in Hotshot lasguns +Hotshot marksman rifle/Long-las, and Hotshot-pistol.
while Zealot a crusader style for weaponary we got a Twohanded Powersword Yeah!, but were our Power axes, and our sword and Board combination so i can RP the cardinal's Crimson order of Knights, but other things like comndor Boltguns, for psyker enemiens when ever they are going to come into the game. or Blessed Helbard. as other options, just copy the movement pattern and special attack from v2, maybe adding in a null rod which could be funny denying all psyker effects including your teams. so it powerful but unhelpful.
the psyker more diffcult, since we arn't actually able to choose to many of the psyhic power that we should be able to pick from, so for weaponary alot of it covered off with the basic sword and maul, were kind of missing something like Force axes. i would probable change how we access power's rather then it just being in a sense a single power like Crush, smite and assial. we got towards othering like Inferno, Stealth, Fear (suppressing), Iron-arm,Warp-speed, vortex of doom. and you could gain upto like 3 power and cycle through them with longer cooldowns. the greater the power you use. with like vent not only venting charge but also resting the power.
Other classes get toughness on crit (scales well with skills/blessings), on kill (scales with difficulty) or on interacting with their core mechanic (just strong).
Ogryn mostly gets toughness on hitting heavy attacks. He can also brace his gun, but that's really about it. "but you can put toughness on his weapons". And other classes don't need to do that.
He can't use cover properly, he has a large delay on regenerating stamina and in general feels actively designed to be worse to play than any other class.
All 3 of his skills are mediocre; the charge isn't a worse attack buff that's also more situational in both the attack boost and toughness gen than Zealot's equivlanent. Zealot gets 2 charges.
His shooting buff has an 80 second cooldown. That's nearly 3 times as long as the vet's version.
His shout is just poorly thought out. Cool, I make enemies target me. Me, the class who can't dodge as well as anyone else, consistently takes more damage and has extremely rigid and underwhelming toughness generation. Next I'm going to spawn in with no weapon and use an ult that makes it so only I can shoot.
His rock is also a vastly inferior version of Zealot knife that gets actively worse as difficulty rises rather than getting better.
The game is extremely bias to low cooldown, reliable skills, killing elites, sliding and fast weapons.
Ogryn is the exact opposite to this.
Zealot is... Zealot. Zealot's durability on a crit build is, frankly, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mental. It's insanely easy to get high crit and run something like duelling sword and basically kill most enemies in one or two hits. Then there's the charge if you need to hit a break point, which has an insane cooldown with crit builds. There's stealth, which lets you be REALLY funny and do a ♥♥♥♥ load of more damage to nuke bosses, or clutch matches. Then there's chorus, which is a super-good support ability thaaaaaaaaat no one seems to use actually.
Then psyker has Scrier's gaze, which I swear is the only one anyone talks about because it gives you insane damage (but I hate running it and like shield or venting shriek. Shield because support is nice, and venting shriek because it's trivial to have it ready whenever you need it and burn almost any enemy to death with soulblaze.)
Ogryn's support options don't generate toughness for the team. Which isn't to say it's bad! Being able to yell at a crowd and draw aggro is fantastic. But it's also not Voice of Command that has basically no cooldown and infinite toughness. It's not chorus that stunlocks ♥♥♥♥ and gives people ♥♥♥♥ loads of toughness. It's not scrier's gaze, which gives you approxmiately "♥♥♥♥ off and die" amounts of damage.
There's the Ogryn charge. Which is actually pretty useful for diving, or knocking down lines of problem enemies and the fodder in the way while setting the ogryn up for follow up attacks and regenerating their toughness.
There's Point Blank Barrage which... can actually be kinda nuts on the right build, but it's a touch niche at times and *very* ammo hungry - which is a problem for our big man because all of his guns are already ammo hungry anyway. Well, save for like... the single round shotgun.
Somehow I don't think the ogryn talents are as interesting to people, despite the fact i think Ogryn can be quite powerful in where he operates best - crowds and melee. It's actually trivial to get one shots on Crushers and you don't even need a crit build for it. But the only place he actually GETS damage reduction is from enemies that aren't dead yet, and through bleed. If you want any kind of damage reduction as an Ogryn ,you're railroaded pretty hard into one kind of build. Other classes at least have other options for it (Vet having dmg reduction when close to allies, when above a certain toughness, on headshots, Psyker having toughness dmg reduc at high peril, auto-dodges on crits, zealot being ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ unkillable)
That said, it's trivial to get toughness as an ogryn, and you're almost always safe if you have enemies in melee range. More so than any other class, actually. Maulers may as well just be toughness generators considering how easy they are to stagger as an ogryn. Or having poxwalker hordes following you so you have a way to generate toughness and damage reduction while trying to eliminate that one-bastard who keeps shooting you xD
I say this like I think Ogryn is bad. I don't think he is. I think he's just... a bit awkward. At risk of being shot to death maybe a bit more than other classes if you aren't a ranged build, but being a ranged build requires you to give up some honestly top-tier melee stuff. But I think if an ogryn is supported properly (like your allies cleaning up problem enemies), you're more or less capable of keeping your allies safe while they deal with something worse.
Okay, I can't type anymore. Because I feel like I could write a dozen more paragraphs and that's - that's honestly too long.
hi! Big man enjoyer here. I like me an ogryn. I like hitting maulers with pickaxes and obliterating crushers. It's always amusing to be the one running upto a pack of crushers to get the crusher-kill-chain started when everyone else panics
I think it's because people value 'high tier' or 'meta' stuff more. Like, I used to talk to one person I thought was kind of insufferable because they're kind of a "Scrier's gaze or bust" kind of psyker, while I'm here making use of the active abilities they deem as 'worthless', because it turns out that if you use Venting Shriek, you're aiming to spam the ♥♥♥♥ out of that thing and stack soulblaze by any means, and venting shriek into literally anything else that applies soulblaze is a really mean combo for almost any enemy in the game? or how dropping shield domes every 15s or less can take a bad situation to fairly managable in auric where you have 8 snipers waiting to kill your team while your team is struggling with the 6 maulers, 4 bulwarks and 12 ragers that just turned a corner?
But sometimes I wish I had an ogryn with a pickaxe. Because sometimes you think to yourself "You know what would be great? An anti-armour cleave ogryn hitting these maulers."
A Zealot with a Knife does basically all of this aside from staggering but that's because everything is too dead to be staggered. I've been an Ogryn main since the talent rework and even I acknowledge that all the other classes bring more to the table and are more efficient at just about everything.
TLDR; skill issues XD
Ogryn is designed to be around & close to the team while being the frontline. So he's slower & his size makes it so rush tactics aren't always a bright idea. His dive engagements are more of a core decision making skill about positioning & potential damage to toughness taken than any other class. Ogryns are shocktroopers, so in general we need to overwhelm the enemy via stagger & cleave in melee, but at range we rely on raw fire power against all & suppression. You overwhelm the bad guys with big firepower then charge them in melee. He's entirely simple the make out, but in practice it doesn't apply as clear as they want it to. He is the pacemaker of the team, the steady advance putting the game forward. Without his team to solidify the advance the Ogryn will falter in positioning and thus need to gain a better position or face damage.
Most of his nodes & blessings around obtaining toughness at ranged is well either reloading, shooting, and bracing your gun. The class is encouraged to be spamming their ranged but their ammo economy is deliberately selective. The class encouraged to spam & spray their ranged weapons for durability affects their longevity & limits their durability with a finite amount at ranged. Heavy attacks are limited to the slowest attack to regain toughness. All other classes get it by merely existing such as crit, dodge, per kill.... venting & generating peril...
As an Ogryn you're either all in to take full advantage of your mixed horde clear & control in melee or else you have diminishing value. Having you can be overkill & you'll start to not be as valuable as you're flexing role to role, which the Ogryn will struggle with. Ogryn is about aggro redirection, which is through melee, pulling aggro, and suppressing that is how he manages teamwide applications.
P.S. Scrier's Gaze is supposed to be damage over control, but its increased peril income makes it more durable & damage. Without Empathic Evasion, Quietude, & Warp Expenditure Scrier's would not be as consistently safe.
In Havoc: Psyker>Ogryn. (Emperor's Bullet mod will shred your team in seconds w/o bubble) and Pus mod will make Vets less OP. Havoc was tuned to make the psyker relevant in this game.
How? Pus skin messes them up the same way it does veteran. Even if psykers have the safety net of unlimited ammo.
It's zealots that have been catered to by this idiotic mode. Almost every modifier doesn't affect them at all, or at the very least they have a talent that counters it. (eg, Corruption removal, toughness on dodge)
I dunno man. Kinda rusty with this latest patch but zealot was frustrating me enough I switched over to psyker for 25+ havocs. My normal smash face into horde and whack my way out while dodge sliding that worked on auric 5's just fine doesnt seem to fly with the increased gunner/ranged stuff.
Could be me... Could be my build.... Worked just fine on the other game modes tho. *shrug*