Ogryn Pickaxe

[MadScientist]

Pls add.

+Range
+Damage
If no reworked moveset. Add even more damage.

SO far this weapon is completely useless compared to better alternatives.

[YARD_STALEV]

Originally posted by Steinar:

Originally posted by YARD_STALEV:

The biggest problem is that pickaxes combos are ping-dependent: I died several times 'cause the server did not register my hits as hits.
And it is a general «feature».
Light hits are too light and «pull+hit» combos are overwhelmed by several Ragers and a hord.
Alas...

Not exactly sure what you're talking about here, and how are they even connected?

1) You're talking about latency and ghost hits.
2) You're talking about combos (i.e. attack chains consisting of a mix of light, heavy, special, and/or push-attacks).
3) You're talking about being overwhelmed by many enemies since Pickaxes attack slowly.

So for 1), I never notice any ghost hits on my Pickaxes personally. Can't say you don't, but you're the first person I've seen complain about it, so I don't think it's "the biggest issue".
For 2) I don't have any problems doing combos, and latency never affects that for me.
And 3) I do agree. This is why we need to use more light attacks (because they're faster), but talents don't reward using those.

I tried different combos in MG, memorized them.
I mainly used Karsolas:
heavy+block+spec+heavy+light+light
pull+heavy+light+light → block+hit
block+spec+W+heavy+light+light
And variations.

Then went to missions.
You never know whether combo works or not.
Quite often pickaxe just interrupts a chain of hits for no reason.
Thus Butcher is more reliable.

[No emaN]

Originally posted by Steinar:

Players are experiencing that enemies can approach and attack their Ogryn in-between those slow heavy attacks. Switching to quicker light attacks is a solution, but Ogryn talents only reward heavy attack spam.

It doesn't help that Pickaxes are designed to be more involving, requiring the use of push and special attacks too. Neither of which trigger Ogryn talents.

I'm sure more people would enjoy Pickaxes if talents were designed to reward light, push, and special attacks. At least lights.

Incorrect on so many levels the people that don't play Ogryn simplify this playstyle to rationalize on why (and how) they don't play Ogryn. Ogryn's entire toughness sustain being locked into heavy attack spam and the base on kill 5%? Yes, a problem. Lack of attack variation being a problem? A few weapons... but the FOMO of Heavy Attack damage...? Stretching it out a bit too much.

Let's see how bad the total is: Furious (2.5%), Crunch (+40%), 10% Heavy Melee + 5% Heavy Melee, +10% heavy from BBA. Ignoring Furious (most builds will have to spec it, almost in any build not always utilized to full effect) You're missing out on a +25% heavy dmg in the tree and +40% from fully charging an attack from Crunch. (Not the true percentile but for the sake of simplicity's sake). These are the true "stay in heavy" attack nodes. Add it up for sheer simplicity 65% upon a fully charged heavy attack. That is within options in the tree to where this systemic issue arises, other blessings are to enrich specific breakpoints for said playstyle.

With any melee build you're using heavy attacks not full time but for its specified purpose, that's what we do with most melees cycle through the attack animations finding the most efficient for its kill target and finding a viable rotation. People do the same mundane ♥♥♥♥ with guns and other simplified melee options what makes this different? The sake of complacency of never alternating from the original path.

Not including Heavy Hitter, for or against the point as it may access the start but lights can sustain it if spec'd. If you get all nosy with Hard Knocks it's a conditional on stagger, granting bonus damage to your next heavy a "use when you need it scenario not locking you out of light combos.

Non-Heavy focus increases; Soften Them Up (+15%), Trample (+2-50%), Heavy Hitter (+25%), Payback Time (+20%), +5% Melee dmg, +115% dmg for a non-heavy focus being generous to toss out Trample and it's still +65% upon an equitable standard. Too conditional with Payback? Save the points and sit with +20% less. Take valuable distractoin for less atk spd for +1 point and more control & damage redirection.

Don't forget the easy access blessings! +40% Skullcrusher, +40% Slaughterer (easy caps out on club/cleaver) Pickaxes? +25% Headtaker, 40% All or Nothing, +40% Slaughterer, +60% Limbsplitter (Branx niche if you're struggling to land blows inbetween heavier composition/kite heavy playstyle) +24% Torment. Man such limited variety oh so much of it with these new pickaxes.

(All or Nothing does fit the playstyle you're suggesting, most people don't use it cause they're ♥♥♥♥ at not having stamina. Harder to utilize on Zealot due to faster stam regen, Ogryn within a larger pool can keep a larger uptime within its range, sprint into fights push attack focus into kills. Need stamina? Melee focused classes tend to take chip from ranged which grants us.... stamina. Downsides negated as long as we can play with common sense in building toughness. You are on a class that has control to mitigate the loss of stamina and Ogryn tends to be pushing more often if you're not an idiot mashing heavies all day)

To get more technical of theoretical increases & on condition; Heavyweight, Massacre, Dominate (Rending/Brittleness benefits bleed, but nobody talks about how it frees up more room for light attack strikedown combos), Thick of the Fray(works for melee).

Why can't we get better topics like why can't "No Stopping Me!" dodges through non-elite enemies akin to a Slayer? Or discussing how point hungry the tree is with minor nodes to distract within the accessibility we're supposedly have with this new skill tree. Or the fact that Heavy Hitter for damage alone is not a good keystone if it weren't for +10% atk spd before Unstoppable got corrected. No, we get (re)posts about those that don't understand Pickaxe broke Ogryn's power matrix & people that ask for things that already exist on Ogryn because they can't lock themselves out of a particular playstyle.

[miscellaneous unc]

What the f-ck are y'all on about? The pickaxe is absolutely insane and needs no buffs. I've been having trouble justifying using any weapon other than my Karsolas

[DLCI]

ok but this thread was started jun 26th

and since then there was at least 1 change in the hotfix patches that specifically buffed the reach/range for multiple attacks on all 3 pickaxes

kinda makes the original post which said they need more range seem 100% justified?

idk maybe its me

[Steinar]

Originally posted by YARD_STALEV:

Then went to missions.
You never know whether combo works or not.
Quite often pickaxe just interrupts a chain of hits for no reason.
Thus Butcher is more reliable.

Really weird. I do not have that problem at all. Are you sure you're not just failing to click your mouse at the right moment because the heat of the battle distracts you?

Originally posted by No emaN:

Incorrect on so many levels the people that don't play Ogryn simplify this playstyle to rationalize on why (and how) they don't play Ogryn.

I really don't understand what you're trying to say. It has no relevance to my post which you quoted, so I stopped reading after the first paragraph.

[YARD_STALEV]

Originally posted by Steinar:

Originally posted by YARD_STALEV:

Then went to missions.
You never know whether combo works or not.
Quite often pickaxe just interrupts a chain of hits for no reason.
Thus Butcher is more reliable.

Really weird. I do not have that problem at all. Are you sure you're not just failing to click your mouse at the right moment because the heat of the battle distracts you?
.

My ping is about 100, sometimes 150.
Even reloading is not always working right skipping actions.

[J.P.]

I only have the karsolas and branx (don't have the middle one) but the two I have work fantastic and are auric maelstrom certified gold star

[Steinar]

Originally posted by YARD_STALEV:

My ping is about 100, sometimes 150.

Ok. I have 60 ping in the Mourningstar (measured with the Ping Monitor mod). Edit: 50 ping in missions.

[DLCI]

idk all the new weapons with those complex next-hit sequence chains seem overly picky about the timing for which attack it thinks you are chaining into

I have had more than a little trouble when executing the shock maul heavy 1 -> light 1 sweeping chain correctly under pressure too.

it often seems to pick the wrong follow-up attack even when my timing feels right. never had the same trouble performing simple alternating light/heavy attacks using any other weapon in darktide or vermintide

[varicose 'vascular' vinny]

They also have some legacy bugs old weapons suffer from. Like if you are sliding and charging a heavy, it will reset to heavy 1. This gives Branx a huge advantage over the rest imo, even if the chain out of heavy 2 into that crowd light attack is bizzarely slower than it should be. If they fix that too, Branx will reign supreme. As is I think Borovian is at least 90% as good as it.

[YARD_STALEV]

Originally posted by J.P.:

I only have the karsolas and branx (don't have the middle one) but the two I have work fantastic and are auric maelstrom certified gold star

I use Karsolas so far, several versions.
1) Thunderous+Slaughterer (Sprint+Crit Chance) (the most comfortable).
2) Wrath+Slaughterer (Maniacs+Flak)
3) Confident strike+Slow and steady (Flak+Carapace). (great surviving)

Yet I still suffer combo drops.