Shock Maul Discussion

[xDaunt]

I'm pretty impressed with the new shock maul. Very interesting and strong weapon overall. It kills pretty much everything efficiently. I've run the Mk III on my zealot for a few games. H1 => L2 combos clear trash effectively. You can chain heavy attacks to do perpetual strikedowns, which can be pretty good for killing hard targets like crushers and maulers. The only problem is that it seems a little difficult to get back into horde clearing mode with the H1 => L2 combo if you aren't already in it. I probably just need to play with the weapon a little more to figure out how best to combo it.

The special attack is also very nifty. It stuns crushers (good for interrupting the overhead of death), bulwarks, ragers, and maulers. It may also stun mutants mid charge, but I may have hallucinated that due to a smite psyker being around.

The shock maul may also have the most interesting blessing options of any weapon. There are a lot of good options here. Given that the shock maul seems to apply electrocution to everything with just its regular attack patterns, I suspect that high voltage is going to be a must have in most circumstances. Entropic seems like something that you're going to want to have as well, but in practice I find that I am dodging more than blocking, so I am finding it hard to have a lot of uptime on it. What I find more interesting is leaning into the stagger potential of the weapon with opportunist, falter, or hammer blow. There just seems to be a lot of potential going this route, particularly if you spec into the some of the impact/stagger talents on the zealot.

[Captain Worthy]

I think Shock Mauls and the super shotgun are so good that Fatshark is probably going to nerf them soon. Especially the Shock Mauls.

[Al3x!el]

Originally posted by xDaunt:

Originally posted by Kuoni Trahho:

2. Did you invest into Agni combos?
- Block push attack / H1 / L1 / H1 & = Horde clear sweap
- H1 / L1 / L1 or H1 / L1 / H1 = all over head strikes for crit on bigger targets and specials

I wonder if the higher heavy base dmg this one comes with does have a great impact anyway..

However, compared to eviscator this two weapons are just not that powerfull. The heavy sword also does a cleaner job popping heads if it comes to hordes, not to mention the knife.

In the end it comes down wich style you like to use purging the unclean :D

I looked at the Agni some, but didn't like the patterns at all. For the horde clear combo, I really don't like starting combos with light attacks chaining into heavy attacks. It's much more efficient to go heavy into light. The other problem with the Agni is that the heavy swing is not perfectly horizontal. Both swings on the H1+L2 combo of the Indignatus are perfectly horizontal, which makes weak spot hits in hordes much easier. The other thing that I don't like about the Agni is that you can't chain heavy strike downs like you can with the Indignatus. This makes killing crushers and other hard targets more difficult in my opinion.

As for your comparison of the shock mauls to the eviscerators, I think you should take another look. The damage difference isn't what you think it is, to the extent that there is any at all. I just played an eviscerator game (Mk 2) for the first time this patch. I didn't match the damage output of any of my past 3 games with the shock maul, which kinda surprised me. My build for the eviscerator and the shock maul are basically identical. The main thing that I noticed was that my attack speed with the eviscerator was significantly slower than on the shock maul. The other thing that I think that people underestimate is how powerful the shock maul blessings are, which greatly boost base damage. The eviscerator blessings really can't compete.

So yeah, I'm quite comfortable ranking shock mauls (the Indignatus, anyway) on the same level as eviscerators. I'm not prepared to put them in the same class as knives or heavy swords yet, but there's a lot of potential with the shock mauls.

EDIT: I just played an auric game with another zealot whom I know is good. We had to carry the team pretty hard. He was playing with an eviscerator, and I was playing with the shock maul. Here were the stats at the end:

Him: 619k total damage, 393k melee, 299k ranged (197k overkill)
Me: 608k total damage, 553k melee, 123k ranged (150k overkill)

Offensive score per the scoreboard app was 114 for each of us. Most of his ranged damage came from immolation grenades. But the point is that the shock maul more than kept up with his eviscerator.

Well thx for comparing and providing stats ;) It might be just a feeling that the Evescator is the better coice judging by the numbers, thats interesting to me!

[xDaunt]

Originally posted by Arani:

Originally posted by xDaunt:

I looked at the Agni some, but didn't like the patterns at all. For the horde clear combo, I really don't like starting combos with light attacks chaining into heavy attacks. It's much more efficient to go heavy into light. The other problem with the Agni is that the heavy swing is not perfectly horizontal. Both swings on the H1+L2 combo of the Indignatus are perfectly horizontal, which makes weak spot hits in hordes much easier. The other thing that I don't like about the Agni is that you can't chain heavy strike downs like you can with the Indignatus. This makes killing crushers and other hard targets more difficult in my opinion.
...

Thx for these (and the other) tips!

Idk why but I'd settled on the Agni at first after testing them in the psykhanium. Got lucky enough to roll a halfway decent Indignatus on one of my psykers so fixed that with Skullcrusher & High Voltage and gotta say the improvement was instant and remarkable. Even with a psyker that H>L combo is insane. Idk why but even with Darktide's wonky headshot detection that thing stacks True Aim like crazy.

So I made an Assail & shield build with Empowered Psionics as opposed to the usual crits & Disrupt Destiny and it's incredibly effective. My only issue so far is that the mace doesn't have enough cleave to power through the big spawns.

Regardless, if this is what the Indignatus can do on a psyker, I can't wait to give it a try on my vet & zelly!

I wouldn’t even think to use a shock maul on a psyker just because I think that the shock maul provides answers to questions that the psyker doesn’t have. Glad you are making it work!

[Arani]

Originally posted by xDaunt:

I wouldn’t even think to use a shock maul on a psyker just because I think that the shock maul provides answers to questions that the psyker doesn’t have. Glad you are making it work!

xD Oh that's just RNG for you really. The daily / weekly store happened to have a decent Indignatus for my psyker. I'll try the same on the others soon as I can grind some money & materials back.

[Squigzy]

Here is m ytake on the shock maul after tryong to like it. I have 800 hours in the game and so I have a lot of high-rated weapons capable of doing damnation so I am comparing those weapons and what they can do vs. what I have found special about the shock maul.

First, I'll be blunt, get a chainaxe. Chain heavy attacks to clear hordes and light attacks can spam stop crushers and its a lot less mentally draining than trying to use either of the two awkward combos. Yes the combos are usable but you either get stuck in dealing with heavies and having to cancel out of it or wait for the side-swing to bring back a heavy horde clear, Or the Agni which is much easier to use for horde clearing but then has the opposite problem with clearing heavies.

The shock stuns YOU too long giving way too many opportunities, for too long, for you to get killed in a proper fight, meaning its only useful in lower intensity situations where the need to stun something quckly is less of a concern.

Its not good at horde clearing, its not good at killing, its good at stunning but seems to lack the range of any other melee weapon that makes these swings truly devestating in horde environments.

I can see promise in the shock maul for specific builds but its far from a game changer in any capacity, and most weapons can accomplish the same task with less gimick. Why stun a horde when yo ucould flatten it and the crusher behind it with a Chainaxe?

Truthfully what interested me the most about the shock maul was ignoring weakspot stagger resistanse and increasing damage to staggered enemies so you can push them all back and beat the hell out of them, but I haven't actually got the blessing combination to try that out on a good shock maull yet. I am going to continue to try it but I have to just come otu and say its not that good at anything that seems to matter, but it is kinda cool.

[xDaunt]

The chain axe is an interesting comparator. I’ll have to give it a go this patch. I moved away from it because of how slow it can be in horde situations, which is going to be an even bigger problem with the recent buffs to enemies.

I disagree with you on the safety of the special shock stun. I find it fairly safe to use on auric. You can animation cancel it at any time with a block. You don’t need to go the full duration to stun enemies.

As for getting stuck with the Indignatus heavy combos, I agree that this can be annoying. However, with practice I have found it to be increasingly manageable. It is still a drawback, but it is one that is outweighed by a lot of other things that the weapon does right.

[Squigzy]

Originally posted by xDaunt:

The chain axe is an interesting comparator. I’ll have to give it a go this patch. I moved away from it because of how slow it can be in horde situations, which is going to be an even bigger problem with the recent buffs to enemies.

I disagree with you on the safety of the special shock stun. I find it fairly safe to use on auric. You can animation cancel it at any time with a block. You don’t need to go the full duration to stun enemies.

As for getting stuck with the Indignatus heavy combos, I agree that this can be annoying. However, with practice I have found it to be increasingly manageable. It is still a drawback, but it is one that is outweighed by a lot of other things that the weapon does right.

The shock maul is certainly usable, and the chain axe does suffer in horde clearing but that can be mitigated depending on which class you are using it on. Ultimately I considered the =power- (two-handed) maul to be a better crowd control option for Zealot, and the Demos Force swords feel very much like a no-brainer for higher difficulty psyker play. (because tossing crushers like child's toys is just hilarious)

So the shock maul feels most appropriate for veterans, but that's where I go with the cianaxe comparison because it took suffers from horde CLEARING but can stil do a much better and faster job with the righr blessings, but still be capable of easi;ly dispatching heavier enemies without ever needing to figure out how to animation cancel anything.

Also, comparng the Catachan swords to a shock maul just feels lke a stretch. Catachan swords can parry for massive damage, returning damage and taking none in hectic situations. Catachan swords have a built in panic button as your alternate if you get comfortable using it. Really this is where I kind of limit my selection (for veterans) to the chainaxe and catachan sword because of how easy it is to fit them into a build without relying on too many points.

I don't want to talk the shock maul down into oblivion, but I want people to realize the difference between a weapon having a cool gimmick and a weapon being truly useful. This is actually where I would suggest the bolt-pistol thrives. The bolt-pistol requires little point investment to be a useful weapon. The revolver is probably a better weapon but requires more points to invest to be useful and so the Bolt-pistol may be a "worse" weapon but it opens up more options for you to use and still be effective (enough).

[xDaunt]

I just did back-to-back auric games with the Indignatus shock maul and Mk IV chain axe on my zealot. Both were on Enclavum Baross, though the chain axe game was with pox gas, and the shock maul game was with lights out. I did about 100k more damage with the shock maul. Some of that difference is going to be explained by the fact that I had a much better team in the chain axe game, which means that I had to do less. That said, the shock maul felt better and more effective overall -- particularly in mixed horde situations. Chaining heavy attacks with the chain axe is just so slow. It's a lot harder to maintain a wide degree control with the chain axe than with the shock maul. The chain axe also doesn't mow through trash as quickly. And while the chain axe is better at chewing through heavily armored targets, the difference isn't nearly enough to offset the reduced crowd control and clearing potential relative to the shock maul.

[Pitviper]

I'm finding a lot of value with the Indignatus variant on Veteran. Heavy - Light - Heavy looping sweeps help a lot with making space and you can always spam Overheads after the first Heavy with subsequent Heavy attacks. I'd argue Zealot and Psyker have better options available to them, but this makes for a good all rounder, which is what I want for my melee weapons.

I'm running the Skullcrusher and High Voltage blessings with Flak / Maniac and I'm finding it reliable, especially since the shock gets applied just from swinging into the horde and because it's a mace, Skullcrusher is pretty much always up on nearly everything you're hitting.

Part of Vet's weaker areas is getting trapped in melee in a dense horde. This isn't the most powerful weapon, but it has a lot of stamina for blocking, is easy to make space with, and can handle just about any enemies it runs into. Being able to break open a Bulwark's guard is incredibly helpful and stopping a Crusher from bonking your head into your torso is also a huge bonus. Plus overhead spam into a Crusher actually can kill one, if you're out of options and just have to melee them.

[Caramel_Clown]

Best weapon of the patch, by a large margin. Bolt pistol is super meh, double Barrell is a joke, pickaxe is usable but needs some work. Shock maul is the only complete weapon they released this time. Solid damage, good stagger, decent cleave and utility. Also very nice moveset that is fun to use. To me agni is preferable because of easy access to powerful overheads, chaining infinitely through light overhead, and easy horde clear combo. It will really come down to taste, since main difference is moveset and combos.

[Fireiznotkool]

Feels just like the one handed mace from VT2 with added stun and a lot more stagger

[Arani]

Sorry to get back to this and maybe it was already addressed here, but now after rolling the Indignatus on my vet too and having a few more rounds with it, I realize it really is pog as heck!

Originally posted by xDaunt:

2. I don't understand why anyone would take the Agni over the Indignatus. The Indignatus seems to do everything better presuming that you can reliably do the H1 => L2 combo for clearing hordes. If you're just a button masher, then maybe the Agni is for you. But I see better players gravitating towards the Indignatus.

See this is what mislead me. It's not H1>L2, H1 combos into L4, which is why it rolls back around to H1. The push-attack also combos into L4 & back to H1>L4. So that's 2 fast & easy ways to access the cleave combo while basically anything else leads to the H2 single target spam. The L4 is very easily recognizable from the other lights too, so even if you get the combos mixed up and have no time or stamina to reset/PA, just spamming lights until L4 and then transitioning back to the cleave combo is really easy.

What really bothered me at first was how finnicky the H1>L4 combo is, for some reason the combo gets messed up pretty often even straight after (block) cancels. It's as if blocking an attack or taking any toughness dmg interrupts it, so the next L4 or H1 will be something else instead. Whatever the case, after learning to either force that cleave with PA or spamming until the L4, this wasn't a problem anymore.

Anyway I really get why ppl like the Indignatus now! It just has the best of both worlds with strong, easily accessible single target and cleave combos. Its perfectly horizontal cleaves and that weirdly massive head hitbox size ofc. double as extra dmg & stagger, all of which greatly improve Skullcrusher too. At this point I really don't get what the Agni is supposed to bring to the table compared to this one. But still, I'm no expert here, maybe there's something there I missed. Or maybe one variant is simply better, as is sometimes the case.

Can't wait to roll this on my zelly and see how it plays out against that crit & stealth crusher build. Since the IoD nerf the much faster hits might actually make this better.

[ItsMaam]

the fact its better than the ogryns power maul is .... shocking

I wish theyd redesign how shock and power items work

[kozerd.lb]

As a poor Zealot using mostly Martyrdom and sometimes Momentum, I would say

• Rashad/Antax have stronger raw power, is your best all around weapon with Brutal Momentum, good mobility and easiest to use without efforts
  
• Heavy Sword: best against hordes, struggles against armored enemies (unlike the Shock Maul)
  
• Heavy Eviscerator is slower/clunky but more versatile and can still kill mixed horde with ease and armored/unyielding faster with special attacks
  
• Chainsword is like Heavy Eviscerator's little brother, versatile, faster attacks but inferior damage (good alternative if you can't stack attack speed to counter the Heavy Evis' main weakness)
  
• Chainaxe is a like a Chainsword specialized in killing armored/big threats: sucks against hordes, shines against bosses/unyielding/armored enemies
  
• Indignatus Crusher is great against everything with its strong CC but takes some time to kill flying enemies or bosses
  
• Indignatus Shock Maul: can't relax inside a mixed horde like a Combat Axe (you have to dodge around and sweat to achieve the same result), can't eat armored/unyielding like a Chain weapons/Eviscerator, can't CC dozens of enemies at the same time like a Indignatus Crusher... but fast attacks and good CC against single targets or limited number of enemies as you can open a Bulwark's shield, stun a little Crusher dude but your range is limited and against unyielding, you must use your special attacks to boost your dps
  You can also survive easily in Auric with this little toy and his great mobility, decent killing power but the Knife is superior for a similar playstyle as Bleed and Uncanny Strike makes it more reliable in general against everything (including bosses)

Overall, a nice addition to kill most enemies in peace from Sedition to Auric...

But...
If you want to kill everything hassle-free without overthinking your combos/special attacks, go with Rashad or Antax (use the special on this to stun ragers though)
If you want to be specialized in horde-killing, go with Heavy Sword
If you want to be versatile and make fun of dancing Ragers, Maulers, Crushers, Bulwark or bosses, go with Chainsword (Chainaxes are too clunky with their current moveset) or Heavy Eviscerator
If you want to play safe, and have a slow and steady approach, play with Indignatus Crusher
If you want to have people writing a thread about you on steam forums every week, just equip a knife and run for your life as if there was no tomorrow
If you want to complete the challenge "Test your metal", yes you can use a Shock Maul I guess