damage reduction vs. bombers and what it does

[DLCI]

I have always assumed damage reduction to bombers = scab bombers (which is what they are called in-game)

which is not particularly useful

looking through the sourcecode again something caught my attention that I never noticed before

the perks that exist with damage reduction vs. enemy types include the following

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_gunners = {
stat_buffs = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_cultist_gunner_multiplier] = 0.8,
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_renegade_gunner_multiplier] = 0.8,
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_chaos_ogryn_gunner_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_mutants = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_cultist_mutant_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_hounds = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_chaos_hound_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_snipers = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_renegade_sniper_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_flamers = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_cultist_flamer_multiplier] = 0.8,
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_renegade_flamer_multiplier] = 0.8

here's where it gets interesting

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_grenadiers = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_renegade_grenadier_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_bombers = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_chaos_poxwalker_bomber_multiplier] = 0.8

now, only one of these two perks exists in game

and as I stated initially, I always assumed it referred to scab bombers, and so I never bothered using it

however, based on the code, this actually suggests damage reduction vs. bombers refers to POXWALKER BOMBERS (the explodey guys) and to be perfectly honest, a 60% reduction in damage vs. those would be an enormous buff.

so my question for the community is - does anyone know for sure which enemy this affects?

[XIX Victorious Aut Mortis]

it probable some remnant code from an Aphla Version of the game, where there was Dreg Grenadiers. There wasn't in the Technical Test for the game. before we went into beta. so it must have been really early on.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by DLCI:

POXWALKER BOMBERS (the explodey guys) and to be perfectly honest, a 60% reduction in damage vs. those would be an enormous buff.

I've always assumed it to work this way* and have been using the perks on my Trinkets. My Ogryn can face tank a Poxbomb and only take very minimal health and corruption damage from them with a single Poxbomb Perk on my trinket. (Admittedly my Ogryn is build for Damage reduction and Toughness Tank)


*I assumed they meant the Poxbomb for the simple fact that the Grenadier does no direct damage. It is just fire damage and the Toxflamer thing also just reduces the direct damage of the Flamesquirt not the flames on the ground. At least as best as i can tell.

Originally posted by DLCI:

so my question for the community is - does anyone know for sure which enemy this affects?

For sure? Nah. For sure would require me to eat a lot of pox bombs with and without it. It just makes sense to me that it isn't grenadiers.

[Dadadudu]

I don't really think the DMG Reduction against Poxbursters is good because unless you got Allies shooting them while you are next to it they aren't any problem to deal with as you can hear them better than any other Special and just push them in melee or shoot them while they are further away. It really only becomes annoying with allies shooting them while they are close to you or when you stand next to one of those doors and they instantly explode next to you after spawning

I personally find the DMG Resistance against Gunners or Flamers the most useful - for the Hounds its also just useless when you are confident in ability to pay attention and block/push them away or evade. Mutant is giga-useless

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Aaron:

I don't really think the DMG Reduction against Poxbursters is good because unless you got Allies shooting them while you are next to it they aren't any problem to deal with

So you are going to tell us you never had a bomb jump out of a door spawn without making any sound? Or had a Mutant carry/throw you into a Bomb? Or an Inopportune Trapper shooting through the Horde and netting you just as a Bomb jumps in? That never happened to you?

And you also haven't played the game these past few weeks, since the sound engine is bugged?

[Germaine's Bra]

Originally posted by DLCI:

I have always assumed damage reduction to bombers = scab bombers (which is what they are called in-game)

which is not particularly useful

looking through the sourcecode again something caught my attention that I never noticed before

the perks that exist with damage reduction vs. enemy types include the following

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_gunners = {
stat_buffs = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_cultist_gunner_multiplier] = 0.8,
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_renegade_gunner_multiplier] = 0.8,
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_chaos_ogryn_gunner_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_mutants = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_cultist_mutant_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_hounds = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_chaos_hound_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_snipers = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_renegade_sniper_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_flamers = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_cultist_flamer_multiplier] = 0.8,
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_renegade_flamer_multiplier] = 0.8

here's where it gets interesting

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_grenadiers = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_renegade_grenadier_multiplier] = 0.8

templates.gadget_damage_reduction_vs_bombers = {
[stat_buffs.damage_taken_by_chaos_poxwalker_bomber_multiplier] = 0.8

now, only one of these two perks exists in game

and as I stated initially, I always assumed it referred to scab bombers, and so I never bothered using it

however, based on the code, this actually suggests damage reduction vs. bombers refers to POXWALKER BOMBERS (the explodey guys) and to be perfectly honest, a 60% reduction in damage vs. those would be an enormous buff.

so my question for the community is - does anyone know for sure which enemy this affects?

With the over-charge toughness bufff from Zeal or Vet, you can facetank a single one.

Honestly although you shouldn't get hit by one. It's one of the easier things to avoid.

[Germaine's Bra]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by Aaron:

I don't really think the DMG Reduction against Poxbursters is good because unless you got Allies shooting them while you are next to it they aren't any problem to deal with

So you are going to tell us you never had a bomb jump out of a door spawn without making any sound? Or had a Mutant carry/throw you into a Bomb? Or an Inopportune Trapper shooting through the Horde and netting you just as a Bomb jumps in? That never happened to you?

And you also haven't played the game these past few weeks, since the sound engine is bugged?

If you stand at doors, you are going to have a bad time.

[Dadadudu]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by Aaron:

I don't really think the DMG Reduction against Poxbursters is good because unless you got Allies shooting them while you are next to it they aren't any problem to deal with

So you are going to tell us you never had a bomb jump out of a door spawn without making any sound? Or had a Mutant carry/throw you into a Bomb? Or an Inopportune Trapper shooting through the Horde and netting you just as a Bomb jumps in? That never happened to you?

And you also haven't played the game these past few weeks, since the sound engine is bugged?

''So you are going to tell us you never had a bomb jump out of a door spawn without making any sound?''
If you would have continued reading what i wrote you would have noticed that i mentioned that like literally in the next sentence....and yes that happened to me but how often does that happen? When it happens sure it suc** but it happens so rarely that its not worth it.

Else i can use the argument for the other ones as well but you have to look how often this Stuff happens, how often you encounter those enemies and how confident you are in dealing with them.

Which is why for me the Mutant or Dog Blessing is just entirely useless and the Poxburster one basically as well because its so rare. But i don't think you would now say that the Dog Blessing is great just because in one out of ten Matches you might get hit by a Dog for whatever reason.

And i did play the fast few Weeks quite often, leveled my Ogyrn and Psyker to 30 for example. And a Special not making a sound happened only two or three times, two times a Trapper and one time where im not sure with a hound so idk guess i was lucky so far in that regard.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Aaron:

you have to look how often this Stuff happens, how often you encounter those enemies and how confident you are in dealing with them.

As often as you are prone to suffer from the other damage reduction offers, with exception of the gunner damage reduction.

The problem here is if you get shot apart by Gunners a lot, then you at least can work on your pathing. There isn't anything you can do against any of the freak events and unreliable teammates.

Last night i had a teammate shove a poxbomb into my face, because he was on the right side of the horde and i was on the left.. and it was merely a question of both of us eat it or one shoves it into the other ones face.

[DLCI]

people don't regularly play T5HISTG or auric maelstrom probably don't realize that poxbursters can appear less than 10 feet away with almost no warning?

and they usually spawn in multiples

oh, and they are hard-coded to spawn extras off CC specialists, the AI director will trigger an extra specialist spawn, guaranteed to be a burster, as close as it can if you get pinned by a dog or caught in a net.

it is extremely trivial to avoid taking burster damage on difficulties lower than T5, but bursters are one of the enemy types that chips away big chunks of health in full-throttle spawn situations regardless of other factors

sometimes there is almost no possible way to stop them all

totally getting side-tracked from the point though

the point is not 'is damage resistance vs. poxbursters worth it
the point is 'which specialist does this perk actually apply to'

Originally posted by XIX Victorious Aut Mortis:

it probable some remnant code from an Aphla Version of the game, where there was Dreg Grenadiers. There wasn't in the Technical Test for the game. before we went into beta. so it must have been really early on.

true, the 'grenadier' perk used to list both dreg and scab 'grenadiers' which suggested for a long time that there was supposed to be 2 types of bombers, but they only changed that around august last year.

still doesn't really explain which one the perk applies to

if nobody else knows i guess i'm gonna have to try and roll a set of them to test it in the meatgrinder with the creature-spawn mod

[capybaras are cool]

scab bombers are way more dangerous than exploders and its not even close. i would really prefer if the perk affects bombers over bursters

[Hexagoros]

With the way the game spams gunners, I don't know how anyone is taking anything other than Damage Reduction vs Gunners.

[Gaugamela]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by DLCI:

POXWALKER BOMBERS (the explodey guys) and to be perfectly honest, a 60% reduction in damage vs. those would be an enormous buff.

I've always assumed it to work this way* and have been using the perks on my Trinkets. My Ogryn can face tank a Poxbomb and only take very minimal health and corruption damage from them with a single Poxbomb Perk on my trinket. (Admittedly my Ogryn is build for Damage reduction and Toughness Tank)


*I assumed they meant the Poxbomb for the simple fact that the Grenadier does no direct damage. It is just fire damage and the Toxflamer thing also just reduces the direct damage of the Flamesquirt not the flames on the ground. At least as best as i can tell.

Originally posted by DLCI:

so my question for the community is - does anyone know for sure which enemy this affects?

For sure? Nah. For sure would require me to eat a lot of pox bombs with and without it. It just makes sense to me that it isn't grenadiers.

Im not sure that means the curio that says it reduces damage from bombers, actually reduces damage from bursters. My ogryn also doesnt take any health damage at all, let alone any purple damage, if he has full toughness when burster explodes, most of the time at least, and for sure if there are bleeding enemies around for more damage reduction, and he has zero bomber curios.

To be fair if it was confirmed that it affects it, I would probably take that anyways to try, because it would save time waiting for these groups of 10+ bursters walking in lines in the maelstrom missions, and just ignore them altogether, and all other enemies such as bombers and gunners are easy to deal with anyways, if youre carrying your weight properly on damnation maelstrom anyways.

[Arani]

Originally posted by Aaron:

I don't really think the DMG Reduction against Poxbursters is good because unless you got Allies shooting them while you are next to it they aren't any problem to deal with as you can hear them better than any other Special and just push them in melee or shoot them while they are further away. It really only becomes annoying with allies shooting them while they are close to you or when you stand next to one of those doors and they instantly explode next to you after spawning

I mean since for a month now a good third to a half of them make no sounds at all, and the ones that do sound 50m away when they could be dancing on top of your head, pox bursters are currently the #2 threat in the game. Right after the #1 which are ofc the trappers, who absolutely never make any sounds at all until firing.

Soundless bursters aren't just a personal threat either. Because now everyone including myself is constantly hurting their own team by blasting into a horde running around a random corner, or into a group of oggies, with no way of knowing there's a burster there.

The game is broken as heck. I'm getting that perk right away, because if this is true that's probably the best perk in the whole game by a mile right now.

[Hexagoros]

Originally posted by Arani:

Originally posted by Aaron:

I don't really think the DMG Reduction against Poxbursters is good because unless you got Allies shooting them while you are next to it they aren't any problem to deal with as you can hear them better than any other Special and just push them in melee or shoot them while they are further away. It really only becomes annoying with allies shooting them while they are close to you or when you stand next to one of those doors and they instantly explode next to you after spawning

I mean since for a month now a good third to a half of them make no sounds at all, and the ones that do sound 50m away when they could be dancing on top of your head, pox bursters are currently the #2 threat in the game. Right after the #1 which are ofc the trappers, who absolutely never make any sounds at all until firing.

Soundless bursters aren't just a personal threat either. Because now everyone including myself is constantly hurting their own team by blasting into a horde running around a random corner, or into a group of oggies, with no way of knowing there's a burster there.

The game is broken as heck. I'm getting that perk right away, because if this is true that's probably the best perk in the whole game by a mile right now.

Yeah, I agree.

I've got a curio with bomber resistance on my Ogryn, and it has saved me quit a few times.

[Arani]

Originally posted by DLCI:

...

It doesn't work, sadly. :c

I put 3x 20% bomber resistance on me and blew up a burster in my face, took exactly 50% of my hp with around 25% corruption dmg. Then switched those for sprint efficiency (used to be hp, but I wanted a clean comparison to make sure if there was any effect), did the same again and exactly the same damage.

Worth a shot though!