Loner, Fellowship and Tough Regen Speed

[LinkZeppeloyd]

Hey all,

I am curious if anyone has insight into how these all interact.

1. Loner... always count as being in two coherency. Ok. But...
2. Fortitude in Fellowship... +25% "coherency" toughness regen. Based on the wording, this should work with Loner, right? Except it seems like it doesn't. I've played countless rounds using both of these, and many recently not using Fortitude and.. well, it seems like FiF just doesn't do anything. Like no difference between having it and not having it.
3. And finally on curious I have 3 that have +30% toughness regen speed. Using all three... I honestly can't tell if it makes any difference.

I guess my question is... does anything interact with Loner? Feels like not. Feels like Fortitude and/or +90% tough regen speed just don't really do anything.

Does anyone have a feel for how these all interact? I still to this day am not sure if I understand what the difference is between toughness regen, and toughness regen speed. I mean, doesn't more regen mean... more regen? And doesn't regen speed mean... more regen? I don't know, I guess I'm just still not exactly sure what the differences are between these things and whether or not they are doing anything at all.

[Arani]

Idk about 2, but 3 should work. The +30% regen speed does 2 things: It makes your toughness regen faster by as much, and it also makes the regen delay shorter too. So with three of those the delay from starting coherency regen will drop to about half while the speed with which it regenerates will almost double. Since coherency toughness regen takes a break every time you exit coherency or take any toughness dmg, in practice that perk will generate many *many* times more toughness than if you didn't have it. Which is why it's easily about the very best perk a curio can have imo.

Your Loner will definitely benefit from that too for the same reasons.

[DLCI]

the reason it seems insignificant is simply because of the math: it is a flat value and it scales based on total squad coherence before applying multipliers

loner counts as a permanent coherency of 2, which only gives you 2.5 toughness per second. not 2.5% toughness, literally 2.5 toughness per second. a 25% increase to this = 3.125 toughness per second, which is less than having an additional teammate.

toughness regen curios drastically improve the effectiveness of all forms of coherence based regen for the reasons stated above, they cut the 'cooldown delay' after falling out of coherency or taking damage in half and they nearly double the total rate of recovery

toughness regen base = 2.5/3.75/[5] toughness per second for 1/2/3 teammates in coherence (1 teammate = 2 coherence shown for the buff; 2 teammates = 3 coherence buff; etc.)

regen delay = 3 second base

it scales thusly with full coherence being the bracketed number

+90% = 4.75/7.125/[9.5]/sec w/ 1.57895 second delay
+60% = 4/6/[8]/sec w/ 1.875 second delay
+30% = 3.25/4.875/[6.5]/sec w/ 2.3077 second delay

coherency regen feats, on the other hand, don't work like the toughness regen curios; they add to the rate of regeneration but do not change the delay before it starts to regen again. and again, they apply the multiplier to the base value, which does a lot more at full coherence. they can be very effective if you stack enough multipliers (such as on an ogryn with very high damage resistance), and they work much better if you ensure you have the full 90% bonus from curio perks


unlike most other forms of replenishment that benefit from trying to stack as much toughness as possible, the strategy that best maximizes coherence-based-toughness-recovery is to focus on toughness damage reduction + health, because

#1. the recovery rate is a fixed value, not a percentage
#2. the amount of health damage you take from bleedthrough below 90% remaining toughness is percentage based, which means with lower total toughness values you recover a higher % of the total pool per second

ogryn can potentially reach 15.5 toughness per second from coherency with the middle path aura, full stacks of feel-no-pain, the toughest! keystone feat, and curios (max 16 per second if playing with a psyker that has the +10% team regen bonus feat)

with a toughness pool of ~110 this is effectively recovering 14% of your total toughness per second, and in terms of a buffer vs. bleedthrough, is actually better than % based recovery you get from most other forms of replenishment; albeit with the drawback that it stops for ~1.6 seconds every time you get hit

that said, keep in mind that +15 toughness nodes add more 'effective toughness' than +5% toughness damage reduction until you reach ~275 toughness (which used to be possible on veteran but is now impossible for every class, though ogryn can come close with a max of 266 if they take every toughness node and use 3 +17%/+%5 toughness curios)

[LinkZeppeloyd]

Ok, let’s pretend I’m a 39 y/0 lawyer and am *way* to dumb to understand the implications of “math.”

Assuming I’m using Loner, is it worth it to use FiF? And is it worth it to use 90% tough regen speed? Or one and not the other?

The responses are much appreciated BTW, normally I can figure out this stuff by raw hours of experience, but this one keeps eluding me.

[DLCI]

curios are always worth it because they reduce the delay and increase the recovery

loner is MUCH better with curios because you will never fall out of coherence, therefore you only stop recovering when you get hit.

the 25% feat is generally ONLY worth it if you are using 90% from curios AND loner, otherwise the opposite feat that adds +20% damage vs. infested/unyielding is superior since zealot typically has far more efficient ways to recover toughness.

[Le Hatch]

25% of tiny coherency regen because its only a 2 person coherency is going to seem like it barely does anything, because the loner regen by >itself< and nothing else is also barely doing anything.

[shnappy]

Zealot has very high toughness regen without playing into coherency at all. I used to run 30% on curios and over time took it off all of them. As long as you’re hitting and killing things you get back a ton of toughness. If you’re using FotF you can build that to be basically 0 CD for spammable 50% as well. Shroudfield can also be built to spam near infinitely and you can take the subnode for toughness on exiting stealth if you find you need it.

If you favor weapons that kill on heavies you have the top left path for 7.5% on heavy kill and it comes with enemies within/without for 2.5% per second while near 3 enemies.

Top right has the 50% more toughness per melee kill talent if you want even more options.