Reasons don't see more people using the Agripinaa Shotgun?

[Meattshield]

Coming from someone who mains Vet (find it to be the funnest class), and has played with most of the Meta weapons Revolver, plasma, IAGs, etc, except BAG, as I despise weapons that have no immediate efficient means to deal with long range threats. This includes the Kantrael, as yes the Burn is good but being able to deal with gunners/snipers at extreme range rather than leave it to others is better.

Grew bored and started looking at some of the other alternatives like HAGs, and of the weird combinations I've seen people using I find that I don't see many Agripinaa Shotgun in the field. Which is surprising to me, as so far from my experience it seems to absolutely shred most things and in some games still ending up on par for topping stats when running"meta" weapons.

Running Carapace, Flak or Maniac for perks, with No Repsite(4) and Full bore(4) it can tear through most things including crushers while still having effective horde/CQC clear and pinpoint extreme range accuracy. The big thing though is it's a lot of fun to play with.

For those of you who do run it, feel free to post the builds you're having luck with. I'm open to trying new setups, as this is probably going to be my main for a bit.

Edit: This is also preferably for builds on Damnation/Auric Damnation only.

[VoiD]

I tried it, but it felt really horrible.

The reload is far too slow.

The damage is far too low.

The special ammo is pretty neat, and it can be used to snipe specials, but you can also use the revolver to do the same thing, you get 5 shots instead of 1, and even against closer range targets the revolver ends up being more effective as it can pierce a bunch of targets.

Plus it doesn't really have a whole bunch of ammo.

[Fireiznotkool]

I've played auric exclusively since it launched. You can manage with it but be prepared to be constantly reloading with the damn thing. I can't use it on zealot since you gotta be moving constantly but it shines on sharpshooter vet. Also be prepared to tickle montrosities.

[ItsMaam]

The agrip just does too little damage and its alt fire is just inefficient

The shotties need a look at tbh

Increase damage reduce shots.

Puzzles me how the kantreal shotty does more damage than the ripper, BUT HAS BETTER RECOIL CNTROL

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Meattshield:

Reasons don't see more people using the Agripinaa Shotgun?

Because it doesn't do anything particularily well. Now mind you, i do tend to bring all 3 shotguns along for the ride on my Zealot when i want a change, but to be frank... everything it does another gun does better.

Originally posted by Meattshield:

This includes the Kantrael, as yes the Burn is good

No, it's not. It is 6 stacks of burning doing about 49 damage per tick, assuming every pallet hits. If you don't fire point blank at an enemy there is a chance you will do less stacks of burning. In the Psykhanium i have, by shooting into a bunched up group, done as little as 3 Burnstacks to some of them.

A Groaner, the weakest enemy in the game, has 300 HP on Damnation. The initial damage of the hit does The initial hit seems to be double damage, but even so it takes several seconds to kill them.

But while the burn isn't good... what is good is the fact that it still has infinite cleave, meaning you can fire twice into a horde and set the whole horde ablaze with about 10 stacks and it goes through a Bulwark Shield, allowing you to kill them more easily.

It isn't a bad special, but not because the burndamage is anything to write home about. It's the fact that it seems to penetrate about everything.

Originally posted by Meattshield:

Which is surprising to me, as so far from my experience it seems to absolutely shred most things and in some games still ending up on par for topping stats when running"meta" weapons.

It is slow and the one thing it got going for it, is the special. With the new revolver there isn't much reason to use this one anymore.

If you want to snipe things, then Headhunter Guns are better alternatives, even if they can't Stagger a Crusher... and since its only available for Zealot and Veteran, it simply is a poor choice for either. Veteran has the Helbore that outclasses it in any way shape or form and Zealot benefits more from Revolver or Bolter, depending what your kit needs.

Anti Armor is simply better provided by other weapons.

Originally posted by Meattshield:

while still having effective horde/CQC clear

That is what Melee weapons are for.

Originally posted by Meattshield:

The big thing though is it's a lot of fun to play with.

And that is about the only reason i bother to dust it off every once in a while. It is all round mediocre, but fun to use.

Originally posted by Meattshield:

feel free to post the builds you're having luck with

You have the most optimal set up for the Agripinna Shotgun. No Respite and Fullbore are the Blessings to use.

Now the Kantrel and Lawbringer... that is where it gets interesting with Flechette, Man-Stopper and Scattershot to mix into.

On Zealot you can run a Crit Build with Blazing Piety and go for Man-Stopper.. but without a means to reliably boost your crit chance, there is simply no argument to drop No Respite for Man-Stopper. At least not in my opinion.

[2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE]

I use shotguns every now and then on both Veteran and Zealot but they're just mediocre so the appeal isn't there for most people since the value is derived from the fast switching.

[Arani]

Oh I've loved the Agripinaa shottie since it came out! It used to be my go-to over the revolver, but since the Surgical buff (with Hand Cannon ofc) the revolver is simply better at 1-shotting things. I actually tested this a few weeks ago, and even with all the best talents and blessings, the Agripinaa shottie can only 1-tap crushers & maulers with a crit which at best has around ~65% chance iirc. While the revolver can do so with far less talent investments and can always guarantee that crit without the sacrifice that is Deadshot.

But! It's not that simple ofc. Since what the revolver absolutely can't do, is handle mixed hordes in a pinch. And it has far worse bullet economy too. So I find the Agripinaa shottie makes for some great sniper builds yet with versatility, while its powerful sounds and that bolt action (I think that's the term?) feel really just makes it so much fun! It's also worth mentioning just in case, that one of the recent patches fixed reload speed not affecting special action. Now it does!

My current Agripinaa shottie build looks like this:
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9b1d77e1-36ad-4381-a5be-8739c44c10cb

It's a full on grenadier so massive clearing through that, and ofc the shottie itself is a compromise that can handle all ranges, clusters or singular biggies. There are really no toughness talents since thanks to the ult and the massive amounts of stagger & dmg across all ranges, I tend to not need any.

[Hexagoros]

Originally posted by Nobody:

Increase damage reduce shots.

Can we maybe NOT reduce ammo?

Most teams are ALREADY fighting over ammo constantly, just let us use our freaking guns.

[HURT AND HATE]

My build for the Agripina shotgun
Zealot class:
skill +25% damage in close range
purple skill +20% damage and attack speed (good, but I don’t use it, I have a build for loss of health and overcharging of the relic)

improved damage +25% against maniac
improved damage +25% against splinter armor

blessing
+20% damage after hitting the 1 target
+75% crit chance if there were 5 enemies in the line of fire after the shot

1 special bullet to the head - 1 dead elite soldier with a gun
2 special bullets to the head - 1 dead berserker
1 special bullet at the crusher - and the crusher interrupted the attack animation
2 special bullets in the crusher - the crusher falls to the ground and rises for a long time

I tested the Agripina shotgun on a veteran - I didn’t like it.
on Zealot I play through special bullets, shoot in the head

Agrippina shotgun with special bullets dps > Evi Sword fast attack dps (when fighting the elite)

The unique advantage of this shotgun is that its special attack penetrates carapace armor. But the veteran has 3 skills so that any weapon can kill hard armor and Krak greande. The Zealot has an ult "charge" and a bug with 100% armor penetration.

But when 4 ogre crushers with hard armor attack me at once, I don’t panic, because an Agripina shotgun with special bullets at a safe distance will kill them, not quickly, but easily. When a large group of enemies attacks, I get a +75% crit chance, which makes the damage sweet.

[PhellAsleep]

The gun's mechanics are good, but the damage profile is just too low. There are certain blessings combos that can increase it, but the amount of effort it takes to roll those blessings and juggle between firing modes just to achieve that, doesn't seem worth the effort. You're much better off just using a Kantrael with double the baseline damage.

[Brezelbube]

I just run Kantrael with Scattershot & Flechette. Every horde is down in secs with burn

[vid23]

I love shotguns in every game but here they just feel horrible to use. Low damage compared to some other option and the reload is just incredibly bad. You spend the majority of your time just reloading the gun
And theres just no reason to use a shotguns, even at close range over any other weapon

[Dragon]

The issue with shotguns people are missing isn't the mechanics themselves, its that the stopping power range ratios shown mean that they have horrific damage application compared to their shown damage number.

Anything other than Agri at range or Kantrael burning is trash, and Agri still suffers from a lower overall 'raw' damage number meaning its damage application really isn't even that much better anyway.

They need either a much higher raw damage number so that they feel powerful at close range (as they are supposed to by design) and/or a much higher reload/ammo reserve to be used as proper ranged weapons. Right now, the overall damage application per ammo reserve of the shotguns has to be some of the worst in the game.

And yes, this stat matters, because if I'm getting 50-100+ ammo back into the more volley style guns (IAGs, BAGs, MGIV/1a las) per small ammo pack or vet 1% kill, means they are hyper efficient and still manage to kill at about the same rate.

If you want a gun that has a low ammo count, but high damage application, just pick revolver or bolter right now. It's not a great situation and hopefully will be addressed in the next balance patch.

[Ironslayer541]

In my opinion they fell more like a water gun then a shotgun with how pathetic there damage is. They need to buff up the damage or add more pellets to make them feel like an actual shotgun, currently you can mow down hordes faster with an autogun then you can a shotgun (provided you can aim decent enough). The shotgun is supposed to be an anti crowd/anti horde weapon, yet it doesn't really fell that way. The other thing to consider with shotguns is since they are a "multi hit weapon" it means that things that reduce there damage effect them more then other weapons since that damage reduction is applied per pellet. I think they could change that formula for shotguns a bit to make them feel stronger.

[KTVindicare]

I don't use it because I don't like it. As a shotgun it's MUCH worse than the other two, with weaker alpha damage and smaller spread, you pretty much have to hit headshots with it to do any kind of meaningful damage even to trash.

As a sniping weapon (which is its gimmick) it's pretty inferior to other options that can accomplish the same task better. A Revolver is faster to use, does more damage and can fire 5 shots in quick succession while the Agripinaa Shotgun has to manually reload each slug.

All the while it carries the main weakness of the entire Shotgun line which is their atrocious ammo economy and long reload.

So I just don't like the playstyle. It's a weaker shotgun that has a strong anti-armor sniping function on it. I'd rather use an actual sniping weapon or an actual shotgun. I HAVE been able to successfully clear Damnation missions with it, but I didn't find the experience enjoyable.

[Arani]

Originally posted by vid23:

I love shotguns in every game but here they just feel horrible to use. Low damage compared to some other option and the reload is just incredibly bad. You spend the majority of your time just reloading the gun
And theres just no reason to use a shotguns, even at close range over any other weapon

They're just far trickier to use right than most weapons because of that hybrid gameplay. I'm not saying they're ultra strong once you do get it though (like say, psykers), just different. Tbh I'd just skip Lawbringer and Kantrael, not gonna go into details there.

But Agripinaa is definitely right up there on the same tier with the other strong weapons. It can be built in a variety of ways to support crit, close or ranged builds, but imo it shines as a hybrid like OP's. Here's a few short pointers that might not be immediately obvious from a vet's PoV in case you want to give it another try:

Reload speed affects special action speed too, so I for example always pick Volley Adept since it's literally on the way down through Longshot anyway. Agripinaa in general has a good weakspot bonus and esp with the special, so aim accordingly. Use hipfire for clearing big groups, but ADS for longer range tightly packed specials or single targets for its tighter spread / longer range (and ADS really does have a crazy long range even without special). You pretty much always want to preload a special whenever you have time, and the special is accurate even in hipfire so you don't always need to ADS with it either. And remember to adjust for your blessings, so with for example No Respite, you want to focus on 2-3 tapping the same targets down 1 by 1 to get full advantage from that +20% dmg bonus on staggered.

The real tricky part comes down to how you use all of the above. Often if you have the time, you should fire nothing but special rounds, which means chambering that special after every single shot ofc. This is fantastic for Executioner's Stance, since as long as you kill with each shot you'll never run out of clip, ammo or the ult and each shot ofc will be doing ridiculous damage. But it is slow, and sometimes enemies animate and you don't get that 1-shot kill, so you often have to mix in regular ADS shots in there to finish the target before the ult runs out, or even just spam basic shots to deal with immediate priority theats. This means that using the shottie is very dynamic, there's no one pattern that fits each situation.

I suppose the easy short version of this means something like so:

1. Always use special rounds when you have the time
   
2. Move to ADS when you don't have time
   
3. And if there's enemies everywhere, move to hipfire and magdump everything

Just remember that while that list goes from slowest to fastest & biggest overall dmg, it does so at the cost of economy and reload time. So try to use options 2 and especially 3 as last resorts only. Personally I try to keep my ammo spending above 3/4 of a clip at least before reloading. That keeps the shots precise, ammo economic, and ensures I always have the 3 quarters left for emergencies.