The weapon Marks make me see red!

[Misan]

I just bought the game yesterday and I'm already about to quit.

The same weapon has a million different marks and stats that are seemingly incomparable with each other.

A lower rating weapon with worse stats has better dmg and the only thing different is that it's a Mark II instead of Mark VI.

According to hours of googling apparently different marks behave in different ways eg. burst fire vs automatic etc. but the game DOESN'T TELL YOU ANY OF THAT!

So here I am lvl 11 something, wanting to buy and try out a different weapon, only to ALT + F4 in fury as nothing is making any sense.

Same goes for different traits and stuff. "REND" What is it?? a bleed??

4 or 5 different knives with the same look but they're magically *different*

How can I even compare anything!?

Marvelous job on these ones guys, I love it!

[BigCheese]

BrutalBeast の投稿を引用：

I think you are the only one confused about what people are talking about.

I remember you now. You're one of the guys who is always negative. I get it now, OP didn't understand the item system but you need there to be a negative somewhere.

Well, he was wrong and so are you. He wanted to see the difference in how the mk weapons perform in terms of fire rate and attack patterns. He didn't get how it works and thought there was variance he couldn't see in the stats.

Misan の投稿を引用：

You haven't understood the point of the whole thread nor provided anything as an answer yourself.

Nope, you didn't understand each weapon type of the same name has the same base characteristics. Now you do. The goal post shift is cringe.

[DLCI]

Misan の投稿を引用：

junimai233 の投稿を引用：

It literally does? Do you not press [V] to inspect?

It doesn't, it's the whole point of this thread....

click on weapon

push V to inspect
push E to view attack breakdown


this same screen includes information such as

dodge data (dodge count, dodge distance)
stamina bonuses
sprint cost
for ranged weapons, rate-of-fire, ammo count, clip size, and reload speed


now hover over each attribute bar to see what each one does

damage attribute, for example, will list things like damage, damage vs. unarmored, damage vs. infested

you are right that melee weapons do not give enough relevant information because it does not tell you any specifics about swing speed or attack chain timings

you are also right that the 'weapon summary' you see on the loadout page tells you no practical information, because it's a meant as a summary to compare two similar weapons

More information would always be helpful (which is why I have gotten into the habit of digging through the sourcecode to determine how things REALLY work)

but you don't need most of that to play the game effectively

and to suggest that there is not enough information given to you to determine the difference between, say, two ogryn machine-guns, is ludicrous at best

it is plain as day on the stats breakdown page: one does more damage per shot, has less ammo, and has a lower rate of fire

the other has a high rate of fire, does less damage per shot, and has a larger ammo capacity

if you are not able to tell the difference between them based on these numbers, and you also do not want to take 5 minutes to test them out in the firing range,

I am not sure how this problem gets any better by making a forum thread to complain about your lack of attention to detail

[Misan]

DLCI の投稿を引用：

Misan の投稿を引用：

It doesn't, it's the whole point of this thread....

click on weapon

push V to inspect
push E to view attack breakdown


this same screen includes information such as

dodge data (dodge count, dodge distance)
stamina bonuses
sprint cost
for ranged weapons, rate-of-fire, ammo count, clip size, and reload speed


now hover over each attribute bar to see what each one does

damage attribute, for example, will list things like damage, damage vs. unarmored, damage vs. infested

you are right that melee weapons do not give enough relevant information because it does not tell you any specifics about swing speed or attack chain timings

you are also right that the 'weapon summary' you see on the loadout page tells you no practical information, because it's a meant as a summary to compare two similar weapons

More information would always be helpful (which is why I have gotten into the habit of digging through the sourcecode to determine how things REALLY work)

but you don't need most of that to play the game effectively

and to suggest that there is not enough information given to you to determine the difference between, say, two ogryn machine-guns, is ludicrous at best

it is plain as day on the stats breakdown page: one does more damage per shot, has less ammo, and has a lower rate of fire

the other has a high rate of fire, does less damage per shot, and has a larger ammo capacity

if you are not able to tell the difference between them based on these numbers, and you also do not want to take 5 minutes to test them out in the firing range,

I am not sure how this problem gets any better by making a forum thread to complain about your lack of attention to detail

If any of this was plain the thread and others like it wouldn't exist.

Let's make this really simple:

Same gun in all but Mark. Same looking model. Same basic bevahiour. "Torrent / Suppressive" etc.

Other has a lower rating yet higher damage. E: And BETTER stats

Other has higher rating yet lower damage.

Nothing in the stats nor description explains this difference. It is not an SMG vs BR, it is the same "minigun" vs "itself". The only thing different is its Mark.

Mark isn't explained what it does. No amount of pressing V, G or E shows this information.

Therefore = Problem

[BrutalBeast]

Misan の投稿を引用：

DLCI の投稿を引用：

click on weapon

push V to inspect
push E to view attack breakdown


this same screen includes information such as

dodge data (dodge count, dodge distance)
stamina bonuses
sprint cost
for ranged weapons, rate-of-fire, ammo count, clip size, and reload speed


now hover over each attribute bar to see what each one does

damage attribute, for example, will list things like damage, damage vs. unarmored, damage vs. infested

you are right that melee weapons do not give enough relevant information because it does not tell you any specifics about swing speed or attack chain timings

you are also right that the 'weapon summary' you see on the loadout page tells you no practical information, because it's a meant as a summary to compare two similar weapons

More information would always be helpful (which is why I have gotten into the habit of digging through the sourcecode to determine how things REALLY work)

but you don't need most of that to play the game effectively

and to suggest that there is not enough information given to you to determine the difference between, say, two ogryn machine-guns, is ludicrous at best

it is plain as day on the stats breakdown page: one does more damage per shot, has less ammo, and has a lower rate of fire

the other has a high rate of fire, does less damage per shot, and has a larger ammo capacity

if you are not able to tell the difference between them based on these numbers, and you also do not want to take 5 minutes to test them out in the firing range,

I am not sure how this problem gets any better by making a forum thread to complain about your lack of attention to detail

If any of this was plain the thread and others like it wouldn't exist.

Let's make this really simple:

Same gun in all but Mark. Same looking model. Same basic bevahiour. "Torrent / Suppressive" etc.

Other has a lower rating yet higher damage.

Other has higher rating yet lower damage.

Nothing in the stats nor description explains this difference. It is not an SMG vs BR, it is the same "minigun" vs "itself". The only thing different is its Mark.

Mark isn't explained what it does. No amount of pressing V, G or E shows this information.

Therefore = Problem

Sometimes the displayed damage of the weapon is effected by other stats than the "Damage" stat. Examples are "First Target" in melee and "Stopping Power" for ranged weapons.

[VyleKillius]

The inspect feature is useful as it shows you a melee weapon's attack pattern (like the 3 Cleavers), a ranged weapon's rate of fire (like the 3 Heavy Stubbers), and whether a ranged weapon is burst fire or automatic (like the 3 Rippers Guns).

Regarding rend and other effects: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/effects

[fLiPPsTeR]

LMAO

[Calv]

Misan の投稿を引用：

Let's make this really simple:



Other has a lower rating yet higher damage. E: And BETTER stats

Other has higher rating yet lower damage.

Nothing in the stats nor description explains this difference.

How is it not explaining the difference when you've just stated that they clearly show different damage stats.

The different marks have different base damage. That's it. Mystery solved.

[Misan]

VyleKillius の投稿を引用：

The inspect feature is useful as it shows you a melee weapon's attack pattern (like the 3 Cleavers), a ranged weapon's rate of fire (like the 3 Heavy Stubbers), and whether a ranged weapon is burst fire or automatic (like the 3 Rippers Guns).

Regarding rend and other effects: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/effects

Both weapons are fully automatic. The only difference between these weapons is the Mark.

I went and got two screenshots of guns like these but don't know how to post them into this.

Krourk Mk V Twin-Linked Heavy Stub/185Rating/144Primary/144Secondary/Fully automatic/High Capacity/Torrent

VS

Achlys Mk VII Twin-Linked Heavy Stub/215Rating/111Primary/111Secondary/Fully automatic/High Capacity/Torrent


Lower rated weapon has higher damage. Higher rated weapon has lower damage.

The guns I made the thread about, the weaker rated also had worse stats.

Where is this difference in damage? Where is it explained why the higher rated gun has lower damage?

[Calv]

Misan の投稿を引用：

.

Where is this difference in damage? Where is it explained why the higher rated gun has lower damage?

The difference in damage is due to them being different marks. It's explained why the higher rated gun has lower damage with the different marks in the names.

Are you wanting some specific text that says "This Mark does less damage than this other mark"?

I would've thought the number being lower made that pretty clear.

[Misan]

Calv の投稿を引用：

Misan の投稿を引用：

.

Where is this difference in damage? Where is it explained why the higher rated gun has lower damage?

The difference in damage is due to them being different marks. It's explained why the higher rated gun has lower damage with the different marks in the names.

This is not how anything in this thread works, you have not understood the premise at all

[VyleKillius]

Misan の投稿を引用：

VyleKillius の投稿を引用：

The inspect feature is useful as it shows you a melee weapon's attack pattern (like the 3 Cleavers), a ranged weapon's rate of fire (like the 3 Heavy Stubbers), and whether a ranged weapon is burst fire or automatic (like the 3 Rippers Guns).

Regarding rend and other effects: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/effects

Both weapons are fully automatic. The only difference between these weapons is the Mark.

I went and got two screenshots of guns like these but don't know how to post them into this.

Krourk Mk V Twin-Linked Heavy Stub/185Rating/144Primary/144Secondary/Fully automatic/High Capacity/Torrent

VS

Achlys Mk VII Twin-Linked Heavy Stub/215Rating/111Primary/111Secondary/Fully automatic/High Capacity/Torrent


Lower rated weapon has higher damage. Higher rated weapon has lower damage.

The guns I made the thread about, the weaker rated also had worse stats.

Where is this difference in damage? Where is it explained why the higher rated gun has lower damage?

If you inspect both, you'll see in the left info box that the Krourk Mk V has a lower rate of fire (measured in shots per second) than the Achlys Mk VII.

[Calv]

Misan の投稿を引用：

Calv の投稿を引用：

The difference in damage is due to them being different marks. It's explained why the higher rated gun has lower damage with the different marks in the names.

This is not how anything in this thread works, you have not understood the premise at all

I understand perfectly well, I'm not the one asking the obvious question.

You have two weapons that are different marks.
You're confused why the higher rated weapon has lower damage.

The reason is because different marks have different base stats, including base damage.
This can be seen in game by the big number next to primary and secondary. Which you're aware of because you quoted it above.

The rating has nothing to do with it.

[nakoda]

DLCI の投稿を引用：

Misan の投稿を引用：

It doesn't, it's the whole point of this thread....

click on weapon

push V to inspect
push E to view attack breakdown


this same screen includes information such as

dodge data (dodge count, dodge distance)
stamina bonuses
sprint cost
for ranged weapons, rate-of-fire, ammo count, clip size, and reload speed


now hover over each attribute bar to see what each one does

damage attribute, for example, will list things like damage, damage vs. unarmored, damage vs. infested

you are right that melee weapons do not give enough relevant information because it does not tell you any specifics about swing speed or attack chain timings

you are also right that the 'weapon summary' you see on the loadout page tells you no practical information, because it's a meant as a summary to compare two similar weapons

More information would always be helpful (which is why I have gotten into the habit of digging through the sourcecode to determine how things REALLY work)

but you don't need most of that to play the game effectively

and to suggest that there is not enough information given to you to determine the difference between, say, two ogryn machine-guns, is ludicrous at best

it is plain as day on the stats breakdown page: one does more damage per shot, has less ammo, and has a lower rate of fire

the other has a high rate of fire, does less damage per shot, and has a larger ammo capacity

if you are not able to tell the difference between them based on these numbers, and you also do not want to take 5 minutes to test them out in the firing range,

I am not sure how this problem gets any better by making a forum thread to complain about your lack of attention to detail

^ this

[Misan]

VyleKillius の投稿を引用：

Misan の投稿を引用：

Both weapons are fully automatic. The only difference between these weapons is the Mark.

I went and got two screenshots of guns like these but don't know how to post them into this.

Krourk Mk V Twin-Linked Heavy Stub/185Rating/144Primary/144Secondary/Fully automatic/High Capacity/Torrent

VS

Achlys Mk VII Twin-Linked Heavy Stub/215Rating/111Primary/111Secondary/Fully automatic/High Capacity/Torrent


Lower rated weapon has higher damage. Higher rated weapon has lower damage.

The guns I made the thread about, the weaker rated also had worse stats.

Where is this difference in damage? Where is it explained why the higher rated gun has lower damage?

If you inspect both, you'll see in the left info box that the Krourk Mk V has a lower rate of fire (measured in shots per second) than the Achlys Mk VII.

Slightly yes.

Looking at the main compare window, fire rate is something that should probably be visible with the other stats at a quick glance and the damage values titled as DPS or pure DMG.

Haven't looked at other classes burst / automatic weapons yet where it might be more confusing but this might explain the difference.

Also whether the Modifier rolls eg. the damage roll is added into the damage or already included should be stated.

This might have solved it, I can't recall if I had something with the original comparison that wasn't settled, I feel like I'm forgetting something.

Melee weapons tho are another issue but I'll try and compare the next time I play and see.

[Captain Worthy]

Calv の投稿を引用：

Misan の投稿を引用：

This is not how anything in this thread works, you have not understood the premise at all

I understand perfectly well, I'm not the one asking the obvious question.

You have two weapons that are different marks.
You're confused why the higher rated weapon has lower damage.

The reason is because different marks have different base stats, including base damage.
This can be seen in game by the big number next to primary and secondary. Which you're aware of because you quoted it above.

The rating has nothing to do with it.

Yes, the rating is simply the number which totals up the item's modifier, perk and blessings points. It does not affect any stats of the weapon itself, it's just an indicator of how close the weapon is to its maximum gear level.

Right now the maximum gear rating is 550 for weapons.