New weapons seem like total ass

[Snobby Hobo]

I've given both about 4 games of Auric Damnation and I just don't see the appeal at all for either, feel free to inform me where I am wrong.

Specifically, the new Kantrael Heavy Laspistol and the Agripinaa Stub Revolver.

The new Laspistol seems to have worse DPS than the older, faster shooting variant (about 40-50dps on average, both around the mid 500 mark vanilla damage). It also cannot leverage the strongest blessing the Laspistol has anywhere near as well. From just shooting things it feels like it has a worse hidden crit modifier but a better armor modifier. In-game this translates to a MUCH worse TTK overall, and I'm not really sure to what pay-off.

The Agripinaa Stub Revolver is just a really confusing weapon to me in general. It has an extreme damage falloff in comparison to the normal Stub Revolver, worse damage, worse accuracy (by a LOT) and no cleave. It takes all the hallmarks of the original Stubby just to introduce fanning and faster reload? Who is this weapon meant for?

[Taiji]

Haven't tried them. The new weapons are excellent though. Specifically the new knife and eviscerator.

[tools guy-kun]

I can kill elites in just a few shots with the new las pistol. slower fire rate but more punch in a shot, especially paired with DumDum blessing. I like it.

the quickdraw revolver is pure fun and it's decent for what it does. yes, it is weaker than the original revolver, but it's supposed to be to compensate for the immense speed upgrade the fanning has, the faster reload it has, and the extra ammo you can carry. it's not meant to spam for precise kills, you gotta space out the shots if you're trying to land those harder to get kills. yeah it's got no cleave so aiming for specific elites in horde fights can be a challenge, I'll give you that one. however, it encourages a faster pace than the original, which I like.

you might have better luck with it on veteran, since I've used it on both zealot and veteran and there's a noticeable difference between the two in terms of damage and kill potential. that isn't to say that zealot is bad with it, though. my two revolvers are built differently in blessings, but they're still pretty similar.

both revolvers are really nice for what they do. if you want a slower, more sniper based gameplay, then stick with the original. if you want to go gun-ho and get some sweet, spicy weapon swap quick flick headshots while sliding for extra style, quickdraw is the way to go.

[mynx]

Only used the new eviscerator for now. And its much better than the old one imo.
Feels a little bit like "easy-mode" but its fun. x)

[Rama]

At first, the new revolver also seemed bad to me. But since I love fanning, and I used the revolver mainly for shooting specialists, I continued to do the same with Agrippina. Problems arise only with snipers on the other side of the map. But the damage against monsters is now much higher.

In the end, the new revolver is no better than the old one, but I will still use the Agrippina.
It would be nice if they added unique perks to him.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by tools guy-kun:

I can kill elites in just a few shots with the new las pistol. slower fire rate but more punch in a shot, especially paired with DumDum blessing. I like it.

the quickdraw revolver is pure fun and it's decent for what it does. yes, it is weaker than the original revolver, but it's supposed to be to compensate for the immense speed upgrade the fanning has, the faster reload it has, and the extra ammo you can carry. it's not meant to spam for precise kills, you gotta space out the shots if you're trying to land those harder to get kills. yeah it's got no cleave so aiming for specific elites in horde fights can be a challenge, I'll give you that one. however, it encourages a faster pace than the original, which I like.

you have better luck with it on veteran, since I've used it on both zealot and veteran and there's a noticeable difference between the two in terms of damage and kill potential. my two revolvers are built differently in blessings, but they're still pretty similar.

both revolvers are really nice for what they do. if you want a slower, more sniper based gameplay, then stick with the original. if you want to go gun-ho and get some sweet, spicy weapon swap quick flick headshots while sliding for extra style, quickdraw is the way to go.

It would be easier if you would react to the drawbacks I listed as premise to claim their comparative weakness, instead of just talk about your experience in a vacuum.

The new Laspistol has worse dps, by a large margin, a seemingly worse crit modifier (making it less appealing for Piety Zealot, which is the primary build that would want to run it). The damage spacing makes all good blessings worse on it, but most prominently Infernus - which stacks very fast on the other variant.

Nobody in their right mind uses the Revolver to clear hordes. If you used the Revolver for that I've got bad news for you champ... The cleave was very useful because you could hit specialists behind fodder. Again you don't react to what I wrote in the OP.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by Rama:

At first, the new revolver also seemed bad to me. But since I love fanning, and I used the revolver mainly for shooting specialists, I continued to do the same with Agrippina. Problems arise only with snipers on the other side of the map. But the damage against monsters is now much higher.

In the end, the new revolver is no better than the old one, but I will still use the Agrippina.
It would be nice if they added unique perks to him.

I like the fanning aspect too, but the price you have to pay for it is way too steep. Unlike e.g. the Vraks the first shot is in fact NOT pinpoint accurate (big why here). The damage falloff is also very aggressive, on top of overall worse damage. It doesn't seem to perform better against Carapace either. Perhaps you could meme build it into Zealot + Fury?

[tools guy-kun]

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

snipping for space

I read what you wrote. and I came back with personal experience that states why I vouch for the weapons you're criticizing. just letting you know that these weapons have the potential to be better than you're making them out to be, despite the listed points you've mentioned.

in short, they're not ass. they can take care of themselves well if the player knows how to use them.

also

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Nobody in their right mind uses the Revolver to clear hordes. If you used the Revolver for that I've got bad news for you champ... The cleave was very useful because you could hit specialists behind fodder. Again you don't react to what I wrote in the OP.

when and where did I ever say this in my comment? you tell me that I'm not reacting to what you've written in the OP, which is an unintentional implication that I lack the ability to read, yet you're making that same exact mistake. I never said I used either revolver to clear hordes, and I never said that's how they should be used.

try to be less of a hypocrite next time you wish to spark up a conversation, friend.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by tools guy-kun:

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

snipping for space

I read what you wrote. and I came back with personal experience that states why I vouch for the weapons you're criticizing. just letting you know that these weapons have the potential to be better than you're making them out to be, despite the listed points you've mentioned.

in short, they're not ass. they can take care of themselves well if the player knows how to use them.

also

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

Nobody in their right mind uses the Revolver to clear hordes. If you used the Revolver for that I've got bad news for you champ... The cleave was very useful because you could hit specialists behind fodder. Again you don't react to what I wrote in the OP.

when and where did I ever say this in my comment? you tell me that I'm not reacting to what you've written in the OP, which is an unintentional implication that I lack the ability to read, yet you're making that same exact mistake. I never said I used either revolver to clear hordes, and I never said that's how they should be used.

try to be less of a hypocrite next time you wish to spark up a conversation, friend.

True, I did admittedly not read your reply properly. But it was mostly because you just started talking to yourself without even acknowledging my basis for any of my claims.

[Rama]

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

I like the fanning aspect too, but the price you have to pay for it is way too steep. Unlike e.g. the Vraks the first shot is in fact NOT pinpoint accurate (big why here). The damage falloff is also very aggressive, on top of overall worse damage. It doesn't seem to perform better against Carapace either. Perhaps you could meme build it into Zealot + Fury?

I'm not even trying to break through Carapace with it. Only shooters, specialists, monsters. I use it on a veteran and I have no problems with damage due to the high critical chance and generally high damage to weak points. Regarding accuracy, in fact, its spread is less than it seems.

In fact the fat sharks should have made it a six shooter!!

[tools guy-kun]

Originally posted by Snobby Hobo:

True, I did admittedly not read your reply properly. But it was mostly because you just started talking to yourself without even acknowledging my basis for any of my claims.

I appreciate you admitting your mistake. however, I don't think me "talking to myself" should've had any type of hindrance on your basic reading skills. just pointing out the truth. you kind of took accountability, but only about 50/50.

with that said, my "talking to myself" comes from a mindset where you don't have to be max DPS all the time. you don't have to use the best of the best while disregarding anything that performs the slightest bit lesser (in anyone's opinion) as trash. players with this mindset will often find their enjoyment of the game harder to achieve due to the pressure they're putting on themselves for finding the better/best/extra-most bestest gear.

the heavier las-pistol is slower in fire rate which may lessen the impact of certain blessings, sure, but it is still able to perform well, therefore it is not ass, in my opinion. and you said you feel like it has a worse hidden crit modifier, which means you're not confident in that theory and making an assumption.

what I've shared in my response are points that I've seen with my own eyes and can confidently talk about. you're welcome to disagree, not going to stop you there.

[Kangaroo Salesman]

Mark 5 shovel for Ogryn is his best offensive weapon in my opinion. *Bonk*

[Arani]

While I've done a ton of tests on a lot of things in Darktide, I haven't on Laspistols. So I can't comment on numbers at all.

All I know is no matter how hard I tried the old one just didn't work for me. While it had wonderful headshots & crits, it was too weak on anything else. Scoring headshots with the kind of frequency it demanded against those randomly twitching and start/stop/start/turn left enemies is far too hard with my mid skills, so I frequently ran out of ammo having to dump 5-10s into some random special. But the new one works amazingly well. It has that same feel as a revolver where you're expected to take your time between each shot, and even if you hit the chest or a random hand with how much they twitch it's gonna do some real damage. It's a great pairing for a Smite & Vent or Assail & Vent/Scrier's build and finally I can actually make use of it with rarely running out of ammo.

As for the DPS, most weapons follow the same pattern where a harder hitting variant has less ammo (new laspistol takes 3, old one takes 2 per shot), better armor penetration, but does less DPS overall. So that's not an issue.

For the other weapons, I haven't tried the new knife or shovels. I just wasted like 10mil credits on finally getting all the costumes so I just haven't been able to afford it. But the new Evi is completely insane. It does everything the old one does but better and easier, and enables whole new builds on account of its massive speed and headshot cleaves. As I said in another thread yesterday, I'm certain that thing will be nerfed or the old one buffed or both very shortly.

[Snobby Hobo]

Originally posted by Arani:

While I've done a ton of tests on a lot of things in Darktide, I haven't on Laspistols. So I can't comment on numbers at all.

All I know is no matter how hard I tried the old one just didn't work for me. While it had wonderful headshots & crits, it was too weak on anything else. Scoring headshots with the kind of frequency it demanded against those randomly twitching and start/stop/start/turn left enemies is far too hard with my mid skills, so I frequently ran out of ammo having to dump 5-10s into some random special. But the new one works amazingly well. It has that same feel as a revolver where you're expected to take your time between each shot, and even if you hit the chest or a random hand with how much they twitch it's gonna do some real damage. It's a great pairing for a Smite & Vent or Assail & Vent/Scrier's build and finally I can actually make use of it with rarely running out of ammo.

As for the DPS, most weapons follow the same pattern where a harder hitting variant has less ammo (new laspistol takes 3, old one takes 2 per shot), better armor penetration, but does less DPS overall. So that's not an issue.

For the other weapons, I haven't tried the new knife or shovels. I just wasted like 10mil credits on finally getting all the costumes so I just haven't been able to afford it. But the new Evi is completely insane. It does everything the old one does but better and easier, and enables whole new builds on account of its massive speed and headshot cleaves. As I said in another thread yesterday, I'm certain that thing will be nerfed or the old one buffed or both very shortly.

Twitch aim wise I don't think there's too much of a difference between either variant. You both have to click heads, just the heavier version having slightly better breakpoints - but in practice that just means having to click less frequently.

DPS wise you're right. But still; especially in terms of the Laspistols why would you want SLOWER attack speed? The best blessings the weapon has all relate to attack speed in some way. So in this particular case you pay for the discrepancy with another downside.

I've not yet tried the new Eviscerator as I haven't been able to find a good one yet.

[Yeahtoasty]

im just a "for fun" player, currently 30 on my veteran and still only playing sedition and sometimes uprising. i quite like the feel of the new MK3 shovel, going *bonk* with the new special melee, and the new heavy laspistol's alright, feels more punchy to me and i quite like using it to snipe from long range, quite like how i used the singleshot headhunter rifle and the revolver.

[J.P.]

I like the pistol, it's really fun to use, cylinder dumping heretics is quite satisfying with Sainted Gunslinger :D