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resistance reduces the health dmg they deal
Like seriously, blocking and attack reduces push cost sucks? 20% would be significant in letting you throw more pushes, in throwing more push attacks. That is many times more useful than 25% fire resistance.
Fire is an effect you're meant to avoid. Just like being hit with a trapper net, or a dog pounce, or a mutant charge. You shouldn't be spending any degree of time in or near it.
Yeah, i ended up running with 3x flamer and bomber resists on my curios on my vet and preacher. The 60% resist does make a diff, but obviously you are sacrificing stuff for it.
dmg resistance curio perks stack multiplicatively so its 0.8*0.8*0.8(48.8% dmg resistance, all all perks at at 20%)
You shouldn't be spending time on fire, trapped, or dogged, shouldn't ever get hit, oh and you should never block. But we live in reality, not theory. Those things happen.
I wouldn't take fire resist though, the scary thing about fire is the instant toughness burn, and fire resist doesn't stop that. Fire health damage is also more of a rare but bursty damage source, where you can straight up die in the wrong position, and ogryn is a lot safer vs those because of his health pool.
Incidentally, you'll block that attack, which means you get a cheaper push, which means you have more stamina - to push/block more.
Sure, you'd be better off using Ogryn's significant stagger capabilities. But if you're going for the middle-keystone. Your opportunity cost is between that, and 20% Damage Reduction per downed/trapped ally.
You're gonna get significantly more value out of that, over damage reduction that's only around if someone's downed.
Same case on the 20% damage taken one. You get that with Taunt on Block/Push (OR) 20% extra movement speed, and cooldown reduction which is effectively 1 second per elite kill.
The left side of that tree just incentivizes blocking/pushing. Either you could double-down on getting the best out of taking an increased amount of attention from enemies, or you could waste the extra point simply to avoid it.
But those are wildly different degrees of threats.
- Fire puts you in a really bad spot where if you take damage afterward, you're gonna take full damage to your health bar.
- Trapped/Dogged puts you in a really bad spot where you can't do anything unless a teammate is around, which effectively means you're dead if no one gets to you.
- Being hit by a mutant is fine as long as you're near a corner/wall, if anything sometimes he throws you into a better position, if not though, you're gonna take hits from him, and any enemy in the vicinity, which is obviously not good.
- Being hit/shot? That's just gonna happen. And in Ogryn's case, he's easily able to fix his toughness as long as he's near a unit in melee.
- Blocking hits? That's literally. Just. Going. To. Happen. You can't handle every threat in the game just by swinging, if you can, you're likely on a lower difficulty, or aren't being harassed by enough elites/specials to change up the momentum of things. Blocking is natural, you're negating damage, giving yourself opportunity to retaliate at a better moment - which directly fits into making a push attack cheaper, so you can push at 80% of the cost, for 5 seconds, which to my knowledge on most of Ogryn's weapons, he has a lot of stamina bars, which means you get at least 2-3 more push/push attacks than you would've without.
I use the scoreboard mod. If I play auric damnation as ogryn, I generally have under 10 blocks. It happens... but it happens because, like I said, I live in reality, not theory. Sometimes I have to block, but its not because the class had to block, its because I did (in the same way I walk in fire because I walked in fire, not because the class couldn't avoid it).
This isn't VT2. The enemies don't block your movement nearly as much. They're not tough. They're easier to dodge. They don't have hyperdensity that your weapon isn't capable of clearing just by swinging. They stagger easier and longer. And they don't hurt, at least in ogryn's case. Difficulty on auric comes from it spawning like 3x as many specials as cata does, not because you're scared of enemies you slap around like they're nothing.
Its like playing zealot on legend. You don't block as zealot on legend, because you don't have to. If you played legend with 3x specials, you still wouldn't block as zealot. You're thinking like its some modded cata 3, and its not.
The only reason to block on ogryn is because you're literally not looking at an enemy swinging at your back because you're looking for specials that are actually a threat to you. But even then, just charge a heavy. If they hit you... who cares, because when you turn around and swing you will have that toughness back instantly, and now you can return to looking for that special without an enemy swinging at your back.
Even ogryns I play with don't block. They don't really melee either, I play with a lot of ogryns who just spam ranged, but hey if your rumbler knocked everything over you don't have to block do you?
Let me put it this way. You can handle a daemonhost by just swinging as ogryn. Now I'm not going to lie, I am not consistent at doing that. But I've done it for 4-5 seconds before (and refreshed dodge in that duration), so its very likely doable. The other bosses you just facetank (well other than dodging the slime from beasts ofc, but you can't block that anyways).
If you can't do it.... well I don't believe you. You sound like you understand the game to well... other than this ofc. Go try it. Get a Mk3 club, unbind your block button, and spam heavies. I bet you nothing changes. Unless you've fooled me into thinking you understand how to play, there's no way you can't just go around swinging.
Oh and you don't usually want to block in VT2 either. Blocking is more like training wheels, and if you're more skilled than the difficulty, or playing zealot/IB, you can take those training wheels off. Pushes are necessary in VT2, but blocks aren't, they're more of a side effect of lack of confidence, or in rare cases is forced after you mess up a dodge (and often with good reason, if I had some big "I'll totally never get hit" ego I'd probably die on cata).
pushing and blocking is opportunity cost wasted on not hitting back in melee, especially for ogryn, who needs to melee to regain toughness and stagger enemies. never seen someone more committed to a dumber argument.
anyway, this thread is about adding fire resist options, specifically towards the shield-breaking part of fire, not the straight damage. it's not a referendum on which ogryn skills suck.
tired of seeing people get pushed or trapped into fire, including fire barrels. its annoying to instantly lose your toughness with no customization option to mitigate the effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s21dmXrz1A
Hi, i am no one. I rarely use a shield and i frequently use the push. I agree on the Block. Why block when you can shove?
Ogryn got a skill to taunt enemies when you push them. It is very useful for an Ogryn to shove some people around before you wail at them. Especially because it takes pressure off of your teammates and since you can tank with heavy attacks and confidence strike there is no real reason why you shouldn't seek to have everyone go for you and give your teammates the time to deal with specials.
There is absolutely no reason not to add a shove or two into your attack routine as you build your stack of friends around you, so you can really wail on them and get some nice damage bonis going. Especially if you want to be hit for that damage bonus for being hit and make maximum use out of your heavy attacks to hit as many enemy as possible.
It is actually more beneficial to you to shove the random 1-2 enemies as you move towards larger groupings than it is to sit there and wail on them 2-3 times. Just let them follow you and build up so you can hit multiples at once. instead of dealing with them 1 on 1.
And when you "push" you stagger enemies. I do not see the issue here. You taunt them as they fall down and you turn around and focus on someone else.. thus you create a stack of enemies around you, new enemies pile in, because their AI tends towards wanting to swamp you... and suddenly you are in Ogryn paradise, and all because you opened the thing with a shove.
Everyone is happy. The Veteran is happy because they get to murder specials, the Zealot is happy because they are in a target rich environment while everything is focused on the Ogryn.
Same reason why i bring the Taunt skill and not the Bullrush. I am lazy.. i don't like to walk around. I shove some people on the way, and have them follow me to the killing ground.
Skill issue, i am afraid. You hear the grenade of the bomber and you pay attention to barrels.
And even an ogryn can dodge out of the edge of the flame before the toughness breaks. There is a tiny delay between the flames on your feet and the time your toughness breaks. Just dodge once or twice and you are out.
If you are now going to say "you can't dodge"... then i am going to tell you: Maybe use that shove a little more and don't get surrounded, but crowd control your environment with shoves and dodges instead of just wailing at the enemy.. so you won't be trapped when a fire carpet suddenly appears on your feet.
And don't even try to say that this doesn't work on Auric, because i play Auric pretty much every evening.
but.... they have the same visuals as bomber fire patches and very similar visuals to zealot fire
also its just weird design cause it makes set ups that rely on toughness for survivability have an anathema that other set ups just dont, besides falling to ur death
Congratulations?
Cacomistle. We're both living in reality - whether you believe it or not. I'm stating the talent brings value to those that actually use it. I'm sure it's not hard to hold block for one random enemy, to spam out cheaper push-attacks over the course of 5 seconds. It brings value to those people.
There's no theory to this. In reality, you don't find value in it, so you don't find value. In reality, people are going to find certain things more useful than the certain things someone else might find more useful. This is not theory, this is reality. In reality, people have different likeness, preferences and so on.
I'm in the same case. I don't have as much blocks, because the MK2 Club does more than enough in staggering entire hordes in my aggressive playstyle. But I have a friend (in reality) - that plays Ogryn with me, and they have a significantly higher block count. That's going to be (in reality) many times more useful for them, than me. Especially considering the fact they live across the world, and have to deal with higher pings.
In reality. We have different opinions. You don't agree with me, you don't have to, but don't pretend your way, is the only way. There is no argument in preferences, only defending that preference if someone interferes with it - which was never my intent, it was the prove that there is usefulness... if you're the right person.
Okay?
You're denying/ignoring the simple truth(reality) that these moments happen. You're free to talk about how you play, but it's not gonna change what is based on opinion or preference. If you find uselessness in it, then you find it useless, if you find it useful, it's useful to you. There's no Black and White decision on something being bad or not, unless it requires extra-specific requirements to be met to even activate it.
That is reality.
Where? Is this your theoretical-thought, or what is plainly stated in reality?
Continuing to not see the point in you bringing these up.
As above.
Where have I implied that? Because I throw around random scribbles of text that reference the game?
I mean come on. This is useless to bring up. Writing down the pieces with fire, mutants and stuff, is just basic observation of 'reality'. There are varying degrees of things that bring threat to you, or the team. I don't need to be a 5000 hour super-genius to understand a poxwalker isn't as much of a threat as a flamethrower.
And I don't know why you'd even suggest spamming heavies on the MK3 Club, they're all diagonal. I rather block-cancel Heavy 1's with the MK2, or Light1-Heavy2 the MK1. I'm well aware of Ogryn's stagger.
Don't pretend I'm operating off this imagine 'theoretical' world you've decided I'm in. Because it's just basic reality here. People have varying degrees of likeness and dislikeness toward things. Someone might find wounds useful, someone might find hp more useful, someone might find damage reduction curios more useful.
It's all up to people, because that is reality, people find value in different things. To not believe this, is living in a fictional world - one of theory.
I'm obviously pulling at your strings with all this 'theory' stuff. But you pulled that card, I'm just showing you how stupid it sounds to go along with this mindset to disregard what I have to say. This is just basic logic, based in experience and comparison/reference to others.
Handmaiden players would have a word with you.
Also this is just a bad take. Take players like ChocoB or ThePartyKnife (or really any amount of gameplay from people). They have their guard up, they're *pushing*, they're *blocking* attacks while kiting enemies.
This is basic reality-based logic. You're going to be blocking naturally, blocking and pushing, blocking, pushing and wearing down hordes/elites with your weapon. Most particularly in those situations where the mission turned sour.
...And Cacomistle. It's not that hard to block a grunt attack for 5 seconds of cheaper pushes, and take advantage of extra taunt-spread. You're acting like touching rightclick is gonna make you bad at the game.