How's the endgame weapon stat grind?

[dimi]

I'm interested in buying, but I'd like to know how dreadful is to grind at least one maxed out (or close to it) weapon for each class? I've read that there's a considerable resource grind.
I also played Vermintide 2 and the experience there regarding this is pretty smooth (afaik this was also patched in later). So how's it in DT?

[Taiji]

Originalmente postado por dimi:

I'm interested in buying, but I'd like to know how dreadful is to grind at least one maxed out (or close to it) weapon for each class? I've read that there's a considerable resource grind.
I also played Vermintide 2 and the experience there regarding this is pretty smooth (afaik this was also patched in later). So how's it in DT?

Some people seem to go OCD over this stuff, and want perfect weapons - If that is you then it's going to be "dreadful".

When considering that skill matters a hell of a lot more than a few % here and there on your weapon, and also that for many folks it's nice to have something to grind for. The system in Darktide is just flatout superior to systems where it's easy to get BIS gear. Like any looter shooter, really.

[Taiji]

Originalmente postado por dimi:

Thanks for the detailed responses, fellas. They've been very helpful. It's (relatively) small things like this is what's stopping me from buying it. The premium currency ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, the manipulative practice, this padding of the playtime, the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ UI experience in the talent tree and the loadouts (although there's a mod for that) oh and no steam workshop. It's just regressive ♥♥♥♥ over a very solid core game. Death by a thousand ♥♥♥♥♥♥ cuts.

I feel a bit sorry for you. It seems to be your kind of game. But you're letting little things, things that won't affect your experience of the game at all, stop you from buying it.

[dimi]

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

I feel a bit sorry for you. It seems to be your kind of game. But you're letting little things, things that won't affect your experience of the game at all, stop you from buying it.

I'll probably buy it, because it's a good deal and I enjoyed my time with the gamepass version, but most things outside the core gameplay just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I agree with the people who says that we shouldn't support these practices, but on the other hand, I also see that if the devs deliver a good enough game, the majority of people will just ignore the anti-consumer part of it.

[Taiji]

Originalmente postado por dimi:

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

I feel a bit sorry for you. It seems to be your kind of game. But you're letting little things, things that won't affect your experience of the game at all, stop you from buying it.

I'll probably buy it, because it's a good deal and I enjoyed my time with the gamepass version, but most things outside the core gameplay just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I agree with the people who says that we shouldn't support these practices, but on the other hand, I also see that if the devs deliver a good enough game, the majority of people will just ignore the anti-consumer part of it.

That's a relief. It's always sad when folks let politics get in the way of enjoying life.

[Arani]

Originalmente postado por dimi:

I'm interested in buying, but I'd like to know how dreadful is to grind at least one maxed out (or close to it) weapon for each class? I've read that there's a considerable resource grind.
I also played Vermintide 2 and the experience there regarding this is pretty smooth (afaik this was also patched in later). So how's it in DT?

As someone who's played since Dec and has over 1.5k hours in, DT is abnormal in that realistically you can't "max out" weapons per se.

At level 30, each weapon has RNG base stat score between 300-380(max), heavily weighted towards 300. Each stat like dmg, ammo, penetration etc. can have max 80 in it and the distribution of these is also RNG. Because of this, a high base stat score gives overall high stats but does not guarantee high individual stats in the stuff that matters.

On top of these you have 2 perks, going from tiers 1-4 again weighted towards low end, and 2 blessings, also tiers 1-4 again weighted towards low end. You can change up to 2 perks, or blessings, or 1 of each. But you have to first consume a blessing of the same type and tier for that specific weapon type to be able to change into it on another weapon. There are up to half a dozen viable melee weapons, and another dozen ranged weapons for each class.

All in all, this means that it is realistically nearly impossible to get a perfect weapon. I have 2 psykers and 1 of each other class geared since Jan and and not a one of them has a single even nearly perfect weapon. And while I might have one near-perfect weapon a few characters that has 379 base score and near perfect stat distribution (78%+ in all relevant stats), they will still have at least one T3 perk and/or T3 blessings. Most of the others are much worse than that.

But that doesn't mean what it would usually mean in other games. T5+ endgame is all about breakpoints. Ie. how many hits does it take to kill a specific enemy type. And afaik not a single weapon needs to be even nearly perfect for reaching the best breakpoints. They do need to be good though. Typically T3 perks, T3 blessings and 70% dmg or above is enough.

Earning these gear, blessings and all can be done in two ways:

1. Long term - Get mission rewards, check weekly/daily and hourly store, and pray for RNG. This method has no agency over what you will get, so while it is by far the cheapest method and costs very little money and no materials, you are going to have to settle for whatever is available. But in the long term, this is the most efficient way to gear up sort of passively.
   
2. Short term - Use Brunt's armory store and buy the specific raw lowest-tier weapons there, and then upgrade them yourself. The weapons are all RNG so you will usually have to spend 200k+ and buy dozens of weapons to get even a single one with good stats. Then you will again have to rely on RNG during upgrading to get at least 2 good results between perks or blessings, so you can change the other two. This is the fastest way to get a good weapon but requires tons and tons of money and materials, which you get from playing those missions.
   
   For reference, this spring I spent around 1-1.5 million credits and tens of thousands of materials total to get a single good hammer for my zealot. It took weeks of hardcore daily gaming to earn that much. These days the rewards are bigger but still, if you get unlucky, that's what you're looking at.

tldr; You cannot approach Darktide as a BiS game in the traditional sense. As you reach endgame for the first time, you'll be stuck with whatever luck throws your way and have to make your builds around that. Over time you'll get better gear and more agency on how you want to play. But the gameplay itself is extremely fun and even completely mid weapons are more than enough for the job if you know what you're doing. While some builds absolutely depend on highly specific gear and specific perks and blessings at least T3+ on that gear, most can be made to work with far less than that.

If you approach DT with the attitude that you must have the best gear, then you will burn yourself out, come here posting angry comments about the trashy RNG crafting system like many have, and probably quit the game. It's far better to think of it as a game with infinite progression where you need to settle for the best you got and understand that it will be enough, while enjoying the prospect of having a chance for even better gear to look forward to no matter how much you play.

As a final sidenote, here's a few good examples of the luck and gearing in the game:
One of the first level 30 Grenade Gloves I got for my oggy in Dec had absolute trash base score of 340 with melee damage at 37%. But it has 80% blast (ranged) damage, blast radius and penetration, 25% maniac dmg and Gloryhunter IV as locked attributes. To date, I haven't gotten anything better. But since it's not a melee weapon, I don't need anything better. This thing has the highest possible ranged / special attack damage of Grenade Gloves.
One of the first Power Swords I got for my vet had Power Cycler IV, which might still be one of the rarest blessings in the game many haven't gotten even with months of trying, and completely transforms it into the best offensive melee vets can have. I've been riding on that thing ever since.

[dimi]

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

That's a relief. It's always sad when folks let politics get in the way of enjoying life.

But all these practices and the stuff mention in this thread can and does ruin the enjoyment of some people. And some of the pushback and boycotts were successful to some degree at least, so I wouldn't call them pointless. Look at Epic and it's failing store and exclusivity business model, the pushback against EA. If you left it to companies, a lot of games would be an unfinished pachinko gacha nightmare machine. They only learn if their bottom line is affected. They don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about any feedback, only if it affects their revenue. I just felt like defending people who voice their opinions, because it does help everyone. New users and devs, if they react correctly to good feedback.

[Fryskar]

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

Originalmente postado por dimi:

I'll probably buy it, because it's a good deal and I enjoyed my time with the gamepass version, but most things outside the core gameplay just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I agree with the people who says that we shouldn't support these practices, but on the other hand, I also see that if the devs deliver a good enough game, the majority of people will just ignore the anti-consumer part of it.

That's a relief. It's always sad when folks let politics get in the way of enjoying life.

Wanting a good game with no scummy practices isn't politics.

[madracc00n]

I mean grind is not bad.U can pretty much max out a character in 20-30 hours.Yes u will not have 100% perfect stats on ur gear,but good enough to beat max difficulty if u have a bit of skill.

[Taiji]

Originalmente postado por dimi:

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

That's a relief. It's always sad when folks let politics get in the way of enjoying life.

But all these practices and the stuff mention in this thread can and does ruin the enjoyment of some people. And some of the pushback and boycotts were successful to some degree at least, so I wouldn't call them pointless. Look at Epic and it's failing store and exclusivity business model, the pushback against EA. If you left it to companies, a lot of games would be an unfinished pachinko gacha nightmare machine. They only learn if their bottom line is affected. They don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about any feedback, only if it affects their revenue. I just felt like defending people who voice their opinions, because it does help everyone. New users and devs, if they react correctly to good feedback.

BF franchise from EA is a good example of boycotts leading to a disaster for gamers.
BF5 was an excellent game, but it got boycotted over stupid ♥♥♥♥, so it earned less money, and did not get the content that was planned for it. The swedish devs for some 'unknown' reason decided not to make another BF game. Then we got BF2042 from a studio in LA and it's the worst BF game ever.

The point is that boycotting is how you literally destroy a game.

[Taiji]

Originalmente postado por Fryskar:

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

That's a relief. It's always sad when folks let politics get in the way of enjoying life.

Wanting a good game with no scummy practices isn't politics.

Yeah, just like merely wanting a better society isn't politics.

[Fryskar]

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

Originalmente postado por Fryskar:

Wanting a good game with no scummy practices isn't politics.

Yeah, just like merely wanting a better society isn't politics.

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

Originalmente postado por dimi:

But all these practices and the stuff mention in this thread can and does ruin the enjoyment of some people. And some of the pushback and boycotts were successful to some degree at least, so I wouldn't call them pointless. Look at Epic and it's failing store and exclusivity business model, the pushback against EA. If you left it to companies, a lot of games would be an unfinished pachinko gacha nightmare machine. They only learn if their bottom line is affected. They don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about any feedback, only if it affects their revenue. I just felt like defending people who voice their opinions, because it does help everyone. New users and devs, if they react correctly to good feedback.

BF franchise from EA is a good example of boycotts leading to a disaster for gamers.
BF5 was an excellent game, but it got boycotted over stupid ♥♥♥♥, so it earned less money, and did not get the content that was planned for it. The swedish devs for some 'unknown' reason decided not to make another BF game. Then we got BF2042 from a studio in LA and it's the worst BF game ever.

The point is that boycotting is how you literally destroy a game.

If you can't make a decent game and die off, i'd say its a boycot ending right. If its as "minor" as you consider darktides problems to be, then its likely deserved.

Pretty much what happend with saints row, pissing your fans in your face might see you go broke and deserved so.

You're free to consider it politics, i'd call it economics.

You might be fine with eating ♥♥♥♥, i'm not.

[Taiji]

Originalmente postado por Fryskar:

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

Yeah, just like merely wanting a better society isn't politics.

Originalmente postado por Taiji:

BF franchise from EA is a good example of boycotts leading to a disaster for gamers.
BF5 was an excellent game, but it got boycotted over stupid ♥♥♥♥, so it earned less money, and did not get the content that was planned for it. The swedish devs for some 'unknown' reason decided not to make another BF game. Then we got BF2042 from a studio in LA and it's the worst BF game ever.

The point is that boycotting is how you literally destroy a game.

If you can't make a decent game and die off, i'd say its a boycot ending right. If its as "minor" as you consider darktides problems to be, then its likely deserved.

Pretty much what happend with saints row, pissing your fans in your face might see you go broke and deserved so.

You're free to consider it politics, i'd call it economics.

You might be fine with eating ♥♥♥♥, i'm not.

Really it's more that you're fine with calling perfectly edible food ♥♥♥♥, because you don't like how the food is being sold, or because the packaging is ugly.

That's why it's politics corrupting economics, and not economics by itself.

[Tunnfisk]

Originalmente postado por dimi:

I'm interested in buying, but I'd like to know how dreadful is to grind at least one maxed out (or close to it) weapon for each class? I've read that there's a considerable resource grind.
I also played Vermintide 2 and the experience there regarding this is pretty smooth (afaik this was also patched in later). So how's it in DT?

The real issue with Darktide vs Vermintide is the amount of RNG on weapons. You can never get the best weapon. Literally never. You can get good enough stuff, even super good, but never the best. Or as Fortnite kids would say, "g0d röLL".

I can't recall how long it took me. I would say a couple of hundred hours in total to have top stuff on all my characters. Excluding the leveling.

[Medicles]

Originalmente postado por Trapmaker:

Each gun has 5 different statistics tied to it, at full 380 rating these range from 60 to 80% in power, Getting these ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up can ♥♥♥♥ your gun up and make it a dealbreaker instantly, then each gun has 2 perks which can be level 1-4 with weighting to make it less likely to get 3's and 4's at least on the first upgrade then the blessings which again can be level 1-4 and again heavily weighted to ♥♥♥♥ you over.

I dont think that is true. I started playing again since end of september and used my resources to buy grey weapons and upgrade them to at least blue to farm blessings and literally every weapon gave a lvl 3 perk and a lvl 3 blessing. That was out of like 50 weapons. Never got anything below lvl 3 but rarely got lvl 4. I highly doubt that was random luck, i am pretty sure lvl 3 perks and blessings are guaranteed at 300+ grey weapons.

[🆂🆈🅽🅿🅰🆃🅷🆈]

Short version: Yes

Weapons are still 90% random dice rolls, you can only change the flavor text but the weapons rating (and curios) are still rolling ♥♥♥♥ diddly till it works

So if you are unlucky like me, well you never get something good no matter how many times you check.