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Celgaming Sep 28, 2023 @ 3:42am
Shredder Pistol
We all know. It's too powerful. Nerf has to be coming. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I know it can't do long range, but then again how many weapons can?

I know it's not a boss killer, but then again how many weapons are?

I know it can't wipe out carapace ogryns, but then again how many weapons can?


I don't even mind the ammo usage. In the hands of a competent player they don't hog all the ammo drops anyway. I just happen to think the gun is way too powerful, especially with the right blessings. It has way too much stagger too.

My 50 cents on the gun.

I now see literally almost every zealot use it (I use it too lol) and even psykers are dropping their staves to use it.
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Originally posted by Arani:
Originally posted by 2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE:
Originally posted by Spooky Boi:
He is clearly referring to the sentiment that the gun is OP, and instead the other guns are just so weak and beyond being useful it makes it look OP in comparison. So he suggests buffering other weapons with buffs and traits.

The problem with that idea is that the game would become a joke if everything was brought up to the level of a handful of weapons that are broken as a result of specific Blessings that give +power% and >double the damage output.

It makes more sense to bring a few weapons down instead of everything else up and redesigning the entire game around broken interactions.
This exactly. I really don't get why it needs to be said when it's so obvious. We've had these same pointless debates for decades for no reason at all. Balancing is about fixing the outliers: buff the things that are too weak, nerf the things that are too strong. It's a simple question of economics.
  • If every time a single weapon was OP you just buffed everything else, you'd have to first buff dozens of other blessings and weapons. Then you'd have to buff all enemies across all difficulties to keep the game at least moderately balanced. And then you'd have to buff the player hp, stats and abilities to keep up with the new power demands of the game. Resulting in thousands or more individual changes. After all of those interconnected changes, some variables would be bound to become too weak or strong again, so it's a never-ending cycle. Not to mention that every single patch with any changes will adjust the existing power balance, meaning this same issue would repeat every time.
  • If instead you just fix the outliers and buff or nerf the exceptions as needed, you're done then and there. It's a thousand times cheaper, faster, and safer (due to bugs and other issues all of which are a statistical inevitability correlating directly with the number and size of each change) to just fix the outliers instead of everything else.
The "buff everything else" mentality is a literal impossibility in any software project and displays a gross lack of understanding of not only the basics of software development, but basic logic as well.

I really don't understand people who just find an OP weapon or skill, abuse the living daylights out of it, and don't have the bare minimum self reflective ability to think outside of their own personal power fantasy PoV to realize what's going on. Nothing wrong with using something strong to win, but one would at least expect people to understand that it IS going to get nerfed and for a very good reason too.

This is also why I don't get people who cry about the nerfs when they eventually come, behaving like the victims of some great fraud. You knew it was going to happen, because it was in everyone's best interests to get a balanced game. You should've prepared for it.
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Showing 1-15 of 39 comments
Arani Sep 28, 2023 @ 4:12am 
Psykers have used it pretty much ever since Pinning Fire & power effect became a thing. Psykers have the best interaction with it because you can either use the gun to buff their Ascendant Blaze ult for 2x damage and save a ton of ammo while clearing 95% of everything on the screen... or you can just tap the ult first to first set the weapon to 2x damage instead. It spread from them to the rest, not the other way around. :>

But yes, I'm sure we'll get a nerf at some point. For good reason too. I still don't understand why weapon identity isn't the thing it should be. Why do the assault rifles and BAG weapons have trash blessings like Deathspitter & Fire Frenzy, that need kills instead of stagger for a fraction of the same power as Pinning Fire? The assault rifles are supposed to be about more damage and up to longer ranges, at the cost of less ammo and worse handling. But their blessings do nothing to support that. Meanwhile the Shredder is supposed to be about speed and handling, at the cost of everything else, but really it's just a better assault rifle with almost no costs at all.
#1
Eagle_I_am | .tv/eagle_i_am Sep 28, 2023 @ 4:22am 
For Vet Agripinaa BAG feels a lot better than Shredder, while they are same class weapon.
Shredder has flashlight, and this is only reason to carry this.

For zealot it is medicore weapon, okay'ish for shooting trash, mobile and with flashlight. There are better options.

While on psyker shredder is beast.
#2
PinorekXXL [GER] Sep 28, 2023 @ 4:59am 
Nope...it isn`t. In the opposite ..... the other are just weak. Not of their Basestats but their buffs. Its not shredder himself but its buff/perks. Wish other char/weapon combos would allow same such funcombos.
The other part makes handling skill. Its always an trade to unusual restrictions. Eg. as your mentioned Psyker you get more vulnerable.

Ive seen so many posts on this and that weapon is so overpowered. Takin all in account we have to throw cotton swabs to kill Hordes. And... trust me... even then some dudes come along and cry about overpowering.

those are my 33 cts to this topic
Last edited by PinorekXXL [GER]; Sep 28, 2023 @ 5:00am
#3
Qau'lthir Sep 28, 2023 @ 5:05am 
Balance is important to the health of the game. Like it or not, that's the way it is.
#4
tanksin Sep 28, 2023 @ 5:21am 
i dont think it really needs a nerf but other things like shotguns etc need buffs. its good against a lot of things but its not without its drawbacks
#5
Celgaming Sep 28, 2023 @ 5:59am 
Originally posted by PinorekXXL GER:
Nope...it isn`t. In the opposite.

I don't think you know what opposite means. You're saying it's the weakest weapon in the game.
#6
DarksDevil Sep 28, 2023 @ 7:50am 
Great weapon and fun to use, but IMO it encourages bad play that becomes very apparent in Damnation+
#7
Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah Sep 28, 2023 @ 7:55am 
Originally posted by Celgaming:
We all know. It's too powerful. Nerf has to be coming. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I know it can't do long range, but then again how many weapons can?

I know it's not a boss killer, but then again how many weapons are?

I know it can't wipe out carapace ogryns, but then again how many weapons can?


I don't even mind the ammo usage. In the hands of a competent player they don't hog all the ammo drops anyway. I just happen to think the gun is way too powerful, especially with the right blessings. It has way too much stagger too.

My 50 cents on the gun.

I now see literally almost every zealot use it (I use it too lol) and even psykers are dropping their staves to use it.

Your theorycraft needs actual theory to be considered relevant and since the Flamer Bolter Agra and IX shotgun exist, your theory doesn't really hold up to spec, and all I've seen Zealots carry into Auric is the revolver and bolter.
#8
Solus Sep 28, 2023 @ 1:01pm 
Originally posted by Grr. SG CMD Majah Lazah:
Originally posted by Celgaming:
We all know. It's too powerful. Nerf has to be coming. Enjoy it while it lasts.

I know it can't do long range, but then again how many weapons can?

I know it's not a boss killer, but then again how many weapons are?

I know it can't wipe out carapace ogryns, but then again how many weapons can?


I don't even mind the ammo usage. In the hands of a competent player they don't hog all the ammo drops anyway. I just happen to think the gun is way too powerful, especially with the right blessings. It has way too much stagger too.

My 50 cents on the gun.

I now see literally almost every zealot use it (I use it too lol) and even psykers are dropping their staves to use it.

Your theorycraft needs actual theory to be considered relevant and since the Flamer Bolter Agra and IX shotgun exist, your theory doesn't really hold up to spec, and all I've seen Zealots carry into Auric is the revolver and bolter.
♥♥♥♥♥♥' this :steamthis:
#9
Who trains thy hands for war? Sep 28, 2023 @ 8:00pm 
Originally posted by Arani:
Psykers have used it pretty much ever since Pinning Fire & power effect became a thing. Psykers have the best interaction with it because you can either use the gun to buff their Ascendant Blaze ult for 2x damage and save a ton of ammo while clearing 95% of everything on the screen... or you can just tap the ult first to first set the weapon to 2x damage instead. It spread from them to the rest, not the other way around. :>

But yes, I'm sure we'll get a nerf at some point. For good reason too. I still don't understand why weapon identity isn't the thing it should be. Why do the assault rifles and BAG weapons have trash blessings like Deathspitter & Fire Frenzy, that need kills instead of stagger for a fraction of the same power as Pinning Fire? The assault rifles are supposed to be about more damage and up to longer ranges, at the cost of less ammo and worse handling. But their blessings do nothing to support that. Meanwhile the Shredder is supposed to be about speed and handling, at the cost of everything else, but really it's just a better assault rifle with almost no costs at all.

Nah it was initially an Autopistol Veteran. But Vets wanted big guns and people wanted more difficulty, so carapace patrols became a thing on Damnation

Autopistol can still solo a patrol but will take forever even with a power sword
#10
Who trains thy hands for war? Sep 28, 2023 @ 8:02pm 
Originally posted by Eagle_I_am | .tv/eagle_i_am:
For Vet Agripinaa BAG feels a lot better than Shredder, while they are same class weapon.
Shredder has flashlight, and this is only reason to carry this.

For zealot it is medicore weapon, okay'ish for shooting trash, mobile and with flashlight. There are better options.

While on psyker shredder is beast.
No, Shredder is vastly superior to assault rifle for the Vet, and super easy to solo with.

Although it's partly because I'm not afraid to melee and therefore am able weave in close combat while blasting away all sorts of specials with the Autopistol, even Snipers, as well as more easily make space for grenades. Many vets just have the idea that they want to shoot

BAG and autoguns in general are more Zealot weapons. But I'm not averse to equipping them now and then for variety
Last edited by Who trains thy hands for war?; Sep 28, 2023 @ 10:01pm
#11
Spooky Boi Sep 28, 2023 @ 9:29pm 
Originally posted by Celgaming:
Originally posted by PinorekXXL GER:
Nope...it isn`t. In the opposite.

I don't think you know what opposite means. You're saying it's the weakest weapon in the game.
When you disingenuously cut out his statement and leave out the important context of what he is saying it is the opposite from that tends to happen. He is clearly referring to the sentiment that the gun is OP, and instead the other guns are just so weak and beyond being useful it makes it look OP in comparison. So he suggests buffering other weapons with buffs and traits.
#12
BrutalBeast Sep 28, 2023 @ 10:01pm 
Originally posted by PinorekXXL GER:
Nope...it isn`t. In the opposite ..... the other are just weak. Not of their Basestats but their buffs. Its not shredder himself but its buff/perks. Wish other char/weapon combos would allow same such funcombos.
The other part makes handling skill. Its always an trade to unusual restrictions. Eg. as your mentioned Psyker you get more vulnerable.

Ive seen so many posts on this and that weapon is so overpowered. Takin all in account we have to throw cotton swabs to kill Hordes. And... trust me... even then some dudes come along and cry about overpowering.

those are my 33 cts to this topic
Wouldn't that just make the game easier? Why not just play an easier difficulty instead?
#13
Dragova Sep 29, 2023 @ 12:13am 
Doesn't need a nerf, as I have yet to see it at full power last through a full round of damnation by the competent few. Players crying nerf for weapons are often guilty of playing on painfully lower difficulty levels with highly honed gear. If they cannot be bothered to challenge themselves then they do not deserve any voice when it comes down to debate of balancing weapons.
#14
2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE Sep 29, 2023 @ 1:30am 
Originally posted by Spooky Boi:
He is clearly referring to the sentiment that the gun is OP, and instead the other guns are just so weak and beyond being useful it makes it look OP in comparison. So he suggests buffering other weapons with buffs and traits.

The problem with that idea is that the game would become a joke if everything was brought up to the level of a handful of weapons that are broken as a result of specific Blessings that give +power% and >double the damage output.

It makes more sense to bring a few weapons down instead of everything else up and redesigning the entire game around broken interactions.
#15
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Warhammer 40,000: Darktide > The Mourningstar - General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Sep 28, 2023 @ 3:42am
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