The state of smoke grenades

[HungryHedgehog]

After playing around with the other classes a bit I decided to make a stealth veteran because I wanted to see how that gameplay feels. Now I must say the stealth ability is very fun and I like the play style which makes the choice of grenade more disappointing.

So here are the upsides of the smoke grenade:
-Largest base capacity of 3
-blocks gunners from shooting you for a few seconds
-large aoe
-synergy with the volleyfire which can see through smoke

Here are the downsides:
-massive opportunity cost cause I could've thrown any other grenade and killed the gunners shooting us
-smoke blocks teammates too
-smoke duration is incredibly low
-very niche use (only really usefull against enemy specialists with guns meanwhile the other grenades damage and kill everything)
-redundant for the stealth tree as the stealth ability already lets me clear the gap between me and the enemies without blocking my team
-redundant if you have a psyker with shield which is 90% of psykers
-redundant if you have a zealot with the stun greade which performs similar roles while also staggering everyone and being usefull against more enemy types
-volleyfire and smokes are awkward to get because of their position in the skilltree.

I can count the times where a smoke was more usefull than a krak or a shredder grenade on one hand. Yes if you run a shocktroop gauntlet there are situations but as mentioned you could've thrown any other grenade and probably got better results.

Now if we want to keep the smokes here are some buff suggestions:
-Increase the duration so they are more visible and can more reliably used as visual cover
-Toughness regen for friendly units in the smoke, this would improve their support ability and let them be used defensively or buff melee units charging in.
-All enemy units in the smoke should be disoriented, move slower and have more trouble hitting you
-Consider making it easier to combine it with volleyfire ( I would make all grenades lead to a single node and then branch out again)

Some replacement suggestions:

Flashbangs that explode on impact and blind enemies in a large aoe and mark specials, blinded enemies take an accuracy debuff

Rad grenades that create a radio active cloud for a few seconds that applies a DoT effect to enemies in a large area. Unlike the firebombs it would disappear quicker but the dot could cause random staggers and be applied over a larger area.

[Ironslayer541]

They are buffing smokes in the next patch there duration is getting I think it was 10 seconds more or something but someone can correct me on that if I am wrong, I don't think it will fix them though.

[Hunny]

Sounds like good buff for the smoke, never used them myself but why would I when just lobbing a frag or a krak would do the job better.

[HungryHedgehog]

Originally posted by Hunny:

Sounds like good buff for the smoke, never used them myself but why would I when just lobbing a frag or a krak would do the job better.

see that is the point that's why people dont use them you have to put so much work in for them to be usefull sometimes when you could just throw any other grenade.

[Warhunter]

Originally posted by Ironslayer541:

They are buffing smokes in the next patch there duration is getting I think it was 10 seconds more or something but someone can correct me on that if I am wrong, I don't think it will fix them though.

next patch changes base duration to 15s
if you pick the upgrade grenade talent it increases to 30s

[Recruit "THE NASCAR DRIVER"]

did you not pay attention at all when using smoke grenades?

They block specialists and shooters vision so much that they have to come in melee range to use their guns or specialist abilities (except sniper and bombers, they are still ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥)

Dog won't pounce from a distance or pounce while running
Flamer won't flame you outside of melee range
Trapper will walk right in your face

Shooters & gunners & reapers will walk rigth inside the smoke since their AI is progammed to follow the player if they can't see them to get a sight on them, and because of that they will headfirst in to the smoke grenade making it easy kill and not have to worry about rushing the shooters down while getting peppered by them

Granted, yes the smoke does not last long enough even with tinkerer talent, but the next update will fix that and give them a little stagger (albeit not really useful unless it knocks everything down)

[H4NS]

Its trash, plain and simple. Snipers can shoot through it, it blocks your vision, fuse times are too long, no buffs for staying in the smoke cloud, utterly useless against melee units. Its not even situational, its just a waste of your points. At least make smoke grenades explode right after they hit the ground, cause i want my defensive buff right now and not in 1000000000 years.

[Recruit "THE NASCAR DRIVER"]

Originally posted by Hans ✙:

fuse times are too long At least make smoke grenades explode right after they hit the ground

That i will agree 110%

everything else you said?, Eh

[H4NS]

Originally posted by Recruta BR:

Originally posted by Hans ✙:

fuse times are too long At least make smoke grenades explode right after they hit the ground

That i will agree 110%

everything else you said?, Eh

What "eh"? Snipers are ignoring it and it blocks your vision. It is useless.

[Recruit "THE NASCAR DRIVER"]

Originally posted by Hans ✙:

Originally posted by Recruta BR:

That i will agree 110%

everything else you said?, Eh

What "eh"? Snipers are ignoring it and it blocks your vision

Does it suck?, yeah, are you literaly incapable of seeing the sniper?, No!, Just spam the tag button to mark the sniper dofus

[Celgaming]

I agree 100%. Waste of a skill but if you want to go deep into stealth tree you have to take it.

[Toppopia]

They should change it so you dont blind your team when using them, give them a haze effect but still block enemies line of sight.

[Bigszzz]

Originally posted by Hans ✙:

Its trash, plain and simple. Snipers can shoot through it, it blocks your vision, fuse times are too long, no buffs for staying in the smoke cloud, utterly useless against melee units. Its not even situational, its just a waste of your points. At least make smoke grenades explode right after they hit the ground, cause i want my defensive buff right now and not in 1000000000 years.

nope, not at all . People are simply too idiot to throw the smoke at the enemy which is not what you must do. you throw it at your feet and stay in it, your vision will not be obstruct and youll have full sight on the enemy . Plus this is where the buff out of sight apply and enemy come at you or simply stop shooting all together. Iam not against buffing it however the community doesnt seem to know how to use it

[Snobby Hobo]

They are getting a huge buff next patch. They will have a 30 second duration and stagger everything hit in the initial explosion.

[Driftkel]

Originally posted by Celgaming:

I agree 100%. Waste of a skill but if you want to go deep into stealth tree you have to take it.

Couldn’t have said it better. I also wanted to try a stealth Veteran build but picking a different skill would sort of defeat the purpose of a stealth build.

[Wakipai Pero #PLAYGG]

It also prevents mobs in melee from doing the running attack. They have to be right on top of you before they see you. Why toss smoke when a frag would kill them outright? Because a frag would immediately kill a dozen or so, but the smoke would enable you in killing more than that while remaining in relative safety.