Warhammer 40,000: Darktide

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide

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Casper Oct 20, 2023 @ 10:49pm
Downside of Wounds
There are ways to increase the number of wounds your character has. The guide says this increases the number of times you can get downed in a match, but doesn't increase your health at all. Would having more wounds actually be a penalty for the corruption cleansing effect that the preacher has access to?
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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
Dragontoast Oct 20, 2023 @ 11:06pm 
Technically yes?
You can't "heal" a fully corrupted wound with that Aura so having less wounds means bigger swaths of HP that could be cleansed.

However this isn't really a significant trade-off as there is almost nothing that deals small amounts of corruption that cannot be outright prevented instead. The Aura isn't really useful.
Last edited by Dragontoast; Oct 20, 2023 @ 11:07pm
Casper Oct 20, 2023 @ 11:11pm 
Originally posted by Dragontoast:
Technically yes?
You can't "heal" a fully corrupted wound with that Aura so having less wounds means bigger swaths of HP that could be cleansed.

However this isn't really a significant trade-off as there is almost nothing that deals small amounts of corruption that cannot be outright prevented instead. The Aura isn't really useful.

Is that entire central tree of the preacher just garbage? A few of their options seem super unique at first glance, but I dont know how fun standing around channeling an invulnerability aura for your squad is gonna be.
Calv Oct 20, 2023 @ 11:19pm 
Originally posted by Casper:
Originally posted by Dragontoast:
Technically yes?
You can't "heal" a fully corrupted wound with that Aura so having less wounds means bigger swaths of HP that could be cleansed.

However this isn't really a significant trade-off as there is almost nothing that deals small amounts of corruption that cannot be outright prevented instead. The Aura isn't really useful.

Is that entire central tree of the preacher just garbage? A few of their options seem super unique at first glance, but I dont know how fun standing around channeling an invulnerability aura for your squad is gonna be.

You mean the Chorus ability?

Can be extremely useful when you have team members in a tough spot or the party walks round the corner into a group of ogryn.

You can also currently use it to push monstrosities over ledges quite easily, although this will be changed in the next patch.
Katitoff (Banned) Oct 20, 2023 @ 11:46pm 
Originally posted by Casper:
There are ways to increase the number of wounds your character has. The guide says this increases the number of times you can get downed in a match, but doesn't increase your health at all. Would having more wounds actually be a penalty for the corruption cleansing effect that the preacher has access to?
In a good team, you'll get more out of wounds than out of health of toughness so of all 3, its best to stack wounds imo, especially now that multiple classes have different ways of easy picking up downed team.
Yasahi Oct 21, 2023 @ 2:03am 
Originally posted by Katitoff:
Originally posted by Casper:
There are ways to increase the number of wounds your character has. The guide says this increases the number of times you can get downed in a match, but doesn't increase your health at all. Would having more wounds actually be a penalty for the corruption cleansing effect that the preacher has access to?
In a good team, you'll get more out of wounds than out of health of toughness so of all 3, its best to stack wounds imo, especially now that multiple classes have different ways of easy picking up downed team.

In a good team you don't need more than the 2 (3 on Ogryn) wounds you have by default. Going down more implies that your team is not good.

You need wounds only if you play poorly OR if it's part of the build like it's for some Zealots now.
Katitoff (Banned) Oct 21, 2023 @ 2:24am 
Originally posted by Yasahi:
Originally posted by Katitoff:
In a good team, you'll get more out of wounds than out of health of toughness so of all 3, its best to stack wounds imo, especially now that multiple classes have different ways of easy picking up downed team.

In a good team you don't need more than the 2 (3 on Ogryn) wounds you have by default. Going down more implies that your team is not good.

You need wounds only if you play poorly OR if it's part of the build like it's for some Zealots now.
Yes and no.
If you're doing perfectly good, you'll need only toughness.
But things can go south fast even for better players, and I'd rather have less max health for some time, when 3 man team on auric.

I used to stack health like mad, but now I'm either doing for a mix of 1 of each or full wounds.
Arani Oct 21, 2023 @ 4:32am 
Originally posted by Casper:
Originally posted by Dragontoast:
Technically yes?
You can't "heal" a fully corrupted wound with that Aura so having less wounds means bigger swaths of HP that could be cleansed.

However this isn't really a significant trade-off as there is almost nothing that deals small amounts of corruption that cannot be outright prevented instead. The Aura isn't really useful.

Is that entire central tree of the preacher just garbage? A few of their options seem super unique at first glance, but I dont know how fun standing around channeling an invulnerability aura for your squad is gonna be.
Wait what? I'm not sure I understand your original question or how you came to this conclusion but no, that's not the case at all. And the middle tree is one of the strongest and also easiest to use, barring Martyrdom. While some of its regular passives are admittedly underwhelming, the 3 biggies (nade, aura, ult) are absolutely insane.

Immolation Grenade is very nearly just an upgrade to Stunstorm. Stunstorm staggers everything caught in the blast for 6 seconds, but does nothing to whatever enters the area after even during those 6 seconds. Immolation may not stun elites, but it basically does everything else. Except it does so continuously even to new mobs entering the area, while dealing massive damage in a huge area for a very long time. It's easily one of the best nade abilities in the game right now.

Beacon of Purity (BoP) is one of the best auras in the game period. Other auras like 3% more damage, or 10% more dmg against specials+ (which btw will be nerfed to 5% iirc in the next patch) might seem more flashy, but most of the time they won't meet any meaningful breakpoints. BoP however does something completely unique and far more valuable over time: it addresses resource economy.

Remember that corruption is something that adds up over time: 5 points corruption here, 3 there, 10 there, etc. on and on. By the time you're halfway through the mission, your team is often carrying 10-40%+ corruption each, even those who have barely have taken any real health damage at all. Each tick lowers their overall survivability while taking them closer to the next wound. Because medstations are the only thing that can fix this, they need to be prioritized for wounds and corruption instead of just health, often leaving many people who need it without.

But with BoP that corruption can't add up. Even if everyone takes 10x 5% corruption damage, they'll still be up there at 95% max health. If things go wrong even once - and they often do - you might take a lot of corruption damage at once, and even a few of these will push you past a wound. Purity will fix that too. So whether you have many or few wounds, the aura helps by effectively removing the accumulating effect that's at the core of why corruption is so dangerous. Virtually all experienced people don't use wounds at all since the 21% hp / 17% toughness is almost always more valuable. This makes corruption all the mode rangerous if it should ever reach even a single wound, since that would instantly put them on sudden death mode. Grims add a team-wide corruption DoT on top of their flat ~25hp corruption damage, and most vets and psykers will go below their last wound mere moments after picking up the second grim. But BoP heals corruption *much* faster than the grims can cause it, effectively completely negating the most dangerous thing about those grims and quite literally keeping people above their last wound in most grim runs.

Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude meanwhile is one of the best all-round support ults there is. It staggers everything including monstrosities over its duration, while pushing them back so you can drop them down cliffs or herd them into barrels or nice clumps for easy AoE takedowns, and at the same time it generates tons of toughness while granting the team that new yellow "overtoughness" effect. The overtoughness thing renders you immune to snipers, bursters, basically everything that would normally go right through your toughness. It can even be used to negate effects like bomber fires or flamers over the duration, effectively preventing health damage from those. It's literally the ultimate clutch built into a single ability.

Between all of the above, the 3 middle tree skills give you unprecedented durability, utility, and survivability that no other path for any other class can match. The only problem with that middle tree is like I said, it has many passive talents that are underwhelming or even useless for most builds. But there are some gems there too, like Purge the Unclean (+20% dmg on infested / unyielding), Shield of Contempt (a whopping 75% dmg reduction for 4 seconds, every 10 seconds), and Faithful Frenzy (+10% melee attack speed).

Edit: I realize I used "best in the game" a lot here, for all of the 3. But it's true. The middle tree is tremendously strong. It might not seem exciting and flashy but there's no doubt that it's extremely useful.
Last edited by Arani; Oct 21, 2023 @ 4:43am
Inco G. Nito Oct 21, 2023 @ 5:21am 
People that don't take +1 wounds (except ogryns) are honestly a liability to their own survivability, Does not matter if you are a god player, you will eventually go down because you cannot predict everything the game throws at you
Arani Oct 21, 2023 @ 5:55am 
Originally posted by Of Iron and Gold:
Yes. Wounds are terrible and should never be taken on any class because taking extra wounds means you do not have extra toughness or HP to just not die in the first place. HP is bad to take too but it's at least not actively hurting yourself like taking wounds is.
In principle yes, but it's not that simple. They all address different needs.

First off, all classes / builds have different base hp / toughness depending on class and talents. A percentage increase to that is obviously more valuable the higher your base value is. This is why pre-patch vets always went with 3x +17% toughness with +5% perks on each on top, because at double their 200 base toughness - twice that of any other class - all toughness boosts were also twice as effective on them compared to others. On top of this they got 50% more toughness per melee kill, and had talents like -75% toughness dmg on ult etc. making them ultra tanky despite supposedly being the ranged class.

As for the different needs:

Toughness addresses long term "stamina" or survivability. While the base toughness is much lower than base health, it completely negates ranged damage, and reduces melee damage proportionally to the percentage of toughness you have remaining. So it's basically like a shield. But many enemies like snipers, bomber & flamer fires, mauler & crusher strikes and burster explosions penetrate through toughness and go straight to your health.

Health addresses resistance to burst damage and corruption. Anything that manages to overcome your toughness entirely, being hit in melee while under 100% toughness, or enemies like above that just ignore it completely will go directly to your health. Corruption including grimoires are also flat hp point based, not percentage like in Vermintide 2, so the more health you have the more resistance you have to corruption too.

Wounds meanwhile address the resistance to death. Their only purpose is to give you more chances for being rezzed because you had both your toughness and health taken down. In some limited cases they can also help with corruption like if you have a 100hp vet / psyker and your team is carrying 2 grimoires.

Summary:
With all of the above in mind, it's not that wounds are useless per se. It's just that the curios address different levels of skill. There is no shame in that in itself of course, plenty of people play casually and that's fine. There are tons of games I play casually too, even if Darktide isn't it. xD

But it does mean that wounds are most useful for the least experienced players who make a lot of mistakes and go down more often as a result. HP then is for more advanced players and / or those who have tons of extra hp from their class and builds, since they make fewer mistakes and are far less likely to go down at all. And finally toughness is for the most advanced players and/or builds that synergize well with it, where its lack of burst resistance and inability to deal with those toughness-penetrating attacks relies on the players themselves knowing to position themselves properly and avoid the attacks from ever hitting them in the first place via dodging, pushing, target prioritization and otherwise.

This is why wounds have such a bad reputation on T5+. Because in the highest difficulty of the game most people expect the players there to have enough of a grasp on the basics to not need wounds in the first place. While they are an invaluable tool for the learning new players and definitely have a place in the game as a whole, seeing someone with extra wounds on T5+ sadly indicates that they're going to need to be carried. That said, I've seen my share of randoms who stack 1-2 wounds and still do perfectly fine, so if you feel you need them, then you get them. No mission in the game is even close to so hard that it requires everyone to be running with some BiS meta build anyway.
Inco G. Nito Oct 21, 2023 @ 6:03am 
"if they have +wounds means they need to be carried"

what a exaggerated opinion
Le Hatch Oct 21, 2023 @ 6:04am 
Wound stacking is essentially just building around anticipation for failure, and weakening yourself as a result.

Unless you are a Martyrdom zealot, then wound stack as much as you want you beautiful bastard.
Captain Worthy Oct 21, 2023 @ 6:07am 
Originally posted by Casper:
There are ways to increase the number of wounds your character has. The guide says this increases the number of times you can get downed in a match, but doesn't increase your health at all. Would having more wounds actually be a penalty for the corruption cleansing effect that the preacher has access to?

The downside of stacking extra wounds on your character through curios is that you are not taking +Health, +Stamina and +Toughness curios instead, which could be far more useful for your class & build.

I wouldn't go 100% extra wounds even on the Zealot build which benefits from losing Wounds during the mission.
Inco G. Nito Oct 21, 2023 @ 6:08am 
Originally posted by Le Hatch:
Wound stacking is essentially just building around anticipation for failure, and weakening yourself as a result.

Unless you are a Martyrdom zealot, then wound stack as much as you want you beautiful bastard.

+1 wounds does not hurt anyone, but i do have to agree stacking wounds is overkill and never really comes to use very often
Yasahi Oct 21, 2023 @ 6:19am 
Originally posted by Recruta BR:
People that don't take +1 wounds (except ogryns) are honestly a liability to their own survivability, Does not matter if you are a god player, you will eventually go down because you cannot predict everything the game throws at you

When you're the last person standing the amount of wounds does nothing. Hence why they're useless.

I don't go down at all for the vast majority of games I play on Ogryn or Zealot. If I do, it's usually a full wipe anyways.

Originally posted by Recruta BR:
Originally posted by Le Hatch:
Wound stacking is essentially just building around anticipation for failure, and weakening yourself as a result.

Unless you are a Martyrdom zealot, then wound stack as much as you want you beautiful bastard.

+1 wounds does not hurt anyone, but i do have to agree stacking wounds is overkill and never really comes to use very often

You lose 21% Health or 17% Toughness. That does hurt. Especially with the new talents that actually make those matter more.
Inco G. Nito Oct 21, 2023 @ 6:42am 
Originally posted by Yasahi:
Originally posted by Recruta BR:
People that don't take +1 wounds (except ogryns) are honestly a liability to their own survivability, Does not matter if you are a god player, you will eventually go down because you cannot predict everything the game throws at you

When you're the last person standing the amount of wounds does nothing. Hence why they're useless.

I don't go down at all for the vast majority of games I play on Ogryn or Zealot. If I do, it's usually a full wipe anyways.

Originally posted by Recruta BR:

+1 wounds does not hurt anyone, but i do have to agree stacking wounds is overkill and never really comes to use very often

You lose 21% Health or 17% Toughness. That does hurt. Especially with the new talents that actually make those matter more.

i especially don't notice too much of a loss from using 1 less, i already have 2 health boosts or 1 of each, but going full health and thougness without a +1 wounds is just stupid

i don't care how much health or thougness you have stacked up, if you go down and you're already at death's door, then you're dead for good, and we will have one less teammate for how long the game decides to put you away and the wall of enemies ahead of us

And not every medi-cae we come across will have 4 charges, then we have 1-2 potential teammates at death's door after reaching medi-cae

meh, i give up, speculation will get us nowhere, you do you
im my experience base wounds teammates are a liability to their own survival and +1 never hurts to have, but stacking barely comes to play often
Last edited by Inco G. Nito; Oct 21, 2023 @ 6:43am
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Date Posted: Oct 20, 2023 @ 10:49pm
Posts: 20