So when is the Veteran getting nerfed?

[Prince Ian]

It's just a matter of time

[box]

Originally posted by cith:

I don't know that they need a large nerf, but they definitely need ability tuning. Replenishing so much toughness instantly for everyone is overpowered for sure. No other class has as quick of a toughness regen and suppresion, especially for the whole squad. It's unclear to me why a ranged-focus character gets this exact implementation.

Why not? The Zealot gets a free spam pulse healer so whats so bad having one on call?

[cith]

Originally posted by box:

Originally posted by cith:

I don't know that they need a large nerf, but they definitely need ability tuning. Replenishing so much toughness instantly for everyone is overpowered for sure. No other class has as quick of a toughness regen and suppresion, especially for the whole squad. It's unclear to me why a ranged-focus character gets this exact implementation.

Why not? The Zealot gets a free spam pulse healer so whats so bad having one on call?

I didn't say it's so bad. I said it needs tuning. It's replenish rate is too high.

[box]

Originally posted by cith:

Originally posted by box:

Why not? The Zealot gets a free spam pulse healer so whats so bad having one on call?

I didn't say it's so bad. I said it needs tuning. It's replenish rate is too high.

You just said no other class has a toughness regen suppression for the whole squad, the Zealot heal is arguably even more effective since it stalls for 5 very long seconds and heals, meaning 5 seconds of invulnerability for the whole squad to rally/kill with no risk. To top that off the Zealot doesn't need to make kills to impact the CD it just needs to proc crits and/or take some hits.

[cith]

Originally posted by box:

Originally posted by cith:

I didn't say it's so bad. I said it needs tuning. It's replenish rate is too high.

You just said no other class has a toughness regen suppression for the whole squad, the Zealot heal is arguably even more effective since it stalls for 5 very long seconds and heals, meaning 5 seconds of invulnerability for the whole squad to rally/kill with no risk. To top that off the Zealot doesn't need to make kills to impact the CD it just needs to proc crits and/or take some hits.

I said no other class replenishes it as fast. Read my guy. Zealot has to hold that relic for what feels like an eternity in comparison.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by cith:

No other class has as quick of a toughness regen and suppresion, especially for the whole squad.

Zealot's Chorus comes with invulnerability and Psyker Dome blocks any and all ranged attacks, including Sniper Shots and the Beast's Vomit.

The Zealot even grants immunity, if the description is to be trusted. Chorus of Spiritual Fortitute grants 45% instant Toughness, Stun Immunity and Invulnerability (!). It also can build up to 100 additional Toughness overflow on the operatives and since you absolutely have to take Banishing Light you will also Stagger enemies on each pulse. Not to mention that you can slot into a 25% toughness damage reduction for 10 seconds.


I take both of the Psyker and Zealot's version over the Veterans any day of the week.

Originally posted by cith:

I said no other class replenishes it as fast. Read my guy. Zealot has to hold that relic for what feels like an eternity in comparison.

And you trade that for more Stagger and Immunity, which means a longer amount of time your teammates can get their bearings and murder staggered enemies.

[cith]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by cith:

No other class has as quick of a toughness regen and suppresion, especially for the whole squad.

Zealot's Chorus comes with invulnerability and Psyker Dome blocks any and all ranged attacks, including Sniper Shots and the Beast's Vomit.

The Zealot even grants immunity, if the description is to be trusted. Chorus of Spiritual Fortitute grants 45% instant Toughness, Stun Immunity and Invulnerability (!). It also can build up to 100 additional Toughness overflow on the operatives and since you absolutely have to take Banishing Light you will also Stagger enemies on each pulse. Not to mention that you can slot into a 25% toughness damage reduction for 10 seconds.


I take both of the Psyker and Zealot's version over the Veterans any day of the week.

Originally posted by cith:

I said no other class replenishes it as fast. Read my guy. Zealot has to hold that relic for what feels like an eternity in comparison.

And you trade that for more Stagger and Immunity, which means a longer amount of time your teammates can get their bearings and murder staggered enemies.

As far as I've seen the vet one staggets too on use. Single stagger but its great

[box]

Originally posted by cith:

I said no other class replenishes it as fast. Read my guy. Zealot has to hold that relic for what feels like an eternity in comparison.

You had suppression before editing it out of your comments but that's beside the point, a clutch heal shouldn't be punished with a nerf just because you don't use other heals/shields as a clutch disable to save the team.

[m99noble]

Originally posted by cith:

It's unclear to me why a ranged-focus character gets this exact implementation.

^
because Veteran is no longer a purely range focus class. now it does new things. Like give party buffs and is a toughness battery and stealthy kills one enemy at a time. Now if Elite and Special Kills on melee kill refreshed Infiltrate putting you back in stealth. THAT WOULD BE BUUUUUUSTED! Make it happen Fatty!

[cith]

Originally posted by box:

Originally posted by cith:

I said no other class replenishes it as fast. Read my guy. Zealot has to hold that relic for what feels like an eternity in comparison.

You had suppression before editing it out of your comments but that's beside the point, a clutch heal shouldn't be punished with a nerf just because you don't use other heals/shields as a clutch disable to save the team.

I didn't edit it out. It's there.... Anyway, It should get nerfed. That's my opinion. I think it should go lighter on suppression, or preferably, less toughness regen, which is the real part that's OP, again compared to what other classes have. It's all about the rate of regen. Being able to instantly replenish has vastly more usefulness than gradual. The suppression part is very minor in comparison. Psyker gets 10%/sec on shield, zealot gets 40%/sec but again you're stuck holding the relic. Vet gets instant. I realize zealot and psyker's abilities have other usefulnesses, but my opinino is that these are vastly less important than the KEY feature -- the toughness regen itself.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by cith:

It's all about the rate of regen. Being able to instantly replenish has vastly more usefulness than gradual. The suppression part is very minor in comparison. Psyker gets 10%/sec on shield, zealot gets 40%/sec but again you're stuck holding the relic. Vet gets instant. I realize zealot and psyker's abilities have other usefulnesses, but my opinino is that these are vastly less important than the KEY feature -- the toughness regen itself.

So instant toughness is more useful than 15ish seconds of Stagger, immunity and 45% toughness regen per interval, and toughness damage reduction after its done... or complete immunity to ranged damage plus a 10% toughness regen?

Honestly, if i were you i'd argue against the revive, but compared to the Zealot and Psyker the Vet is kinda lame. Especially because its mostly an "Oh sh**" button in the same way Volley Fire used to be when you specced it for toughness regain and damage reduction before the change.

I've eaten sniper hits with both my psyker and zealot whith their versions. The Dome is so silly broken in Damnation it isn't funny and the Zealot really gives a breather to the team in a way VOC does not.

[box]

Originally posted by cith:

I didn't edit it out. It's there.... Anyway, It should get nerfed. That's my opinion. I think it should go lighter on suppression, or preferably, less toughness regen, which is the real part that's OP, again compared to what other classes have. It's all about the rate of regen. Being able to instantly replenish has vastly more usefulness than gradual.

Id wait and see what the Vet keystones are before clammering about what nerfs need to happen.

[Nekra]

Please no nerf plasma gun its finally fun and enjoyable to use.

I don't think anything is too busted at the moment at the moment besides the surge staff bug. Veteran keystones definitely need a significant change (which I know are incoming), the current ones are pretty lame by comparison, the headshot keystone doesn't even refresh/reactivate with maintaining your ability (which would be super OP), but it just feels kinda lazy?

I have all 4 classes at 30 and I have a ton of fun playing everything but Psyker still, since it still kinda feels like there's only 1 real choice to have fun, since Brain burst really feels like it falls off later on, even with EP.

[2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

So instant toughness is more useful than 15ish seconds of Stagger, immunity and 45% toughness regen per interval, and toughness damage reduction after its done... or complete immunity to ranged damage plus a 10% toughness regen?

It can be because most things in the game are situational so a 1:1 comparison is pointless.

[PJ]

Veterans should be incredibly weak, and instead of getting downed they should just die. But also, they should respawn 20 seconds later without having to be rescued. That would really fit the idea of the faceless, expendable basic RTS unit that the Veteran represents.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by PJ:

That would really fit the idea of the faceless, expendable basic RTS unit that the Veteran represents.

Except that is not what they are or represent. The equivalent in the tabletop would be a character model, like Sly Marbo or Ripper Jackson