Recon Lasguns and automatic weapons on Veteran

[Asherogar]

So...Recon is dead. Again.

It wasn't even that good to begin with. You need a very specific set of talents, blessings and perks for it to work and only put Recon on par with other meta weapons like helbore, revolver or plasma, which all don't need even close the amount of investment to be this good.

But now it's base damage got destroyed, cut more than in half in some cases, talents nerfed, enemies HP buffed (50% for Ragers, what are you smoking?) and all other meta guns are buffed too. Oh yeah, talents relevant for meta guns got buffed too, like Deadshot and weakpoint damage (literally doubled, from 15 to 30% dmg to weakpoint)

???

Ammo economy is atrocious too. You need a lot of ammo to bring down anything and you have so little ammo. Infantry lasgan has the identical total ammo, but it has literal x5 dmg per shot and double dmg efficiency against almost any target. By having less firerate, you'll naturally be less wasteful with ammo too. Don't even get me started on ammo passive. With infantry lasgun/revolver/plasma/helbore you generally refund more ammo shooting down elites and specs, than you spend. With Recon you spend around 30 shots killing random spec at best and refund only 7.

Supposed saving grace in the form of Shock Trooper works the worst on Recons out of all lasguns. Simply because all key talents in Veteran tree and crit sources don't work well with rapid fire weapons. Opening volley is kind of a joke, just 10% crit rate and only on 10% of ammo, you'll need more shots to bring down a single spec. Deadshot is a meme on Recon.

I find it very ironic that in Patch 13 all the relevant talents for Recon were in Melee tree out of all things. And well, one node in Support, but it's really hard to reach. Sharpshooter (another irony here, guy in the background wields heavy machinegun) tree has nothing for automatic weapons, aside from maybe Shock Trooper. And other trees are focused on Support and Melee. Hell, even if you wanted to play grenades build, you'll have like 5-6 nodes improving it.

So let me get it straight: if you want to play rapid fire weapon, then in the entire Veteran tree there's only 3 talents you really want. Shock Trooper, but it works only on lasguns and only on crits with no ways to boost your crit, Rending Strikes which are at the very bottom of support tree and Onslaught, which is in Melee tree of all places, lol. Also, the only crit node and crit talent is in melee tree too.

While trying to get "Make every shot count" penance, I spend a lot of time running with a shotgun and man, it has some good suppress and stagger. You shoot in enemy general direction and an entire room is floored. Rages charging you? One shot in the face and it's lying on it's back. Menwhile Recon has 0 stagger or suppression. Just the previous mission i emptied entire clip in reger and he didn't even flinch. Oh yeah, you need like 100 shots to bring down a single ranger. ~5 seconds of shooting. Good luck, because there's 5 ragers charging you/

I was under impression that Veteran is supposed to be ranged focused, but we got a full Melee tree, Support tree and Sniper tree, focused only on precise weapons. Does Veteran have an identity crisis? At this point I can just go and play Ogryn, his autocannon thing seems to deal some dmg and I heard his tree actually have talents for shooting stuff.

I don't like precise weapons. Recon is dead for no reason and my desire to keep playing is pretty much too. Maybe I try to experiment with autoguns, but i heard they have abysmal ammo economy and wow, what a surprise, Veteran has nothing to improve it. He's passive ammo literally work only with precise weapons.

[Fenris]

I am Running the MKVII, with a Crit Build and it Works very well, dont see any Broblem i Deal about 200 DMG in one shot most of the time, and i loose almost no ammo and that on Damnation sooo i dont have any problems with it

[Ishan451]

For all that argue for the Recon Lasgun... i really want to like it, but how do you deal with the lack of stagger? And the lack of damage?

I am not counting the use of counterfire or abilities. Especially with the whole "killing Bombers and Snipers" i feel this type of gun falls flat. Ragers ain't stopped in their tracks and i feel like i am wasting a lot of ammo in the process dealing with specials and elites.

With the Recon MK VId i seem to be having about 1100 DPS give or take 100. And sure i get a bunch of crits. But even with 1100 DPS it feels behind what other guns offer me.

With the Recon MK II i seem to be having 950 DPS (again give or take 100). 1050 when i am shooting at an Ogryn.

With the Recon MK VIIa i seem to be having 1050 DPS (+/- 100) and 1500 against Reapers.

By comparison, and i am only changing the weapon not the build, using the Agripina MK VII Shotgun i am laying down 1300ish damage shots (pushing my easily to 1400 DPS) with the special and about 1050 DPS without special shell.

The Kantrell MGXII is a mixed bag, going from 700 to 2500 DPS, depending what i am shooting at (Scab ragers tend to be a lot lower than Dreg Ragers for example), with 1500 damage single hits among that on occassion. And of course the one tap on Snipers and Trappers.

Even the Vraks Headhunter MK VII headhunter still gives you that 1 tap for the Sniper and comes in at somewhere between 1300 and 2500 DPS, depending what i am firing at (it is the reverse of the Infantry Lasgun with better performance against Flak)

The Hellbore MK I also sits in this 1300 to 2500 DPS window, and this always has been my issue with the Recon Lasgun. I feel like it always falls short in comparison with our other weapons. It cannot take out Bombers, Trappers and Snipers with a single or double tap, which means it takes some real focus to take them down during a horde. Time i am usually feeling i don't have.

So how do you make it work? What Blessings are essential in your opinion? What Perks does it need to have? And what is its dump stat? Damage? It seems the difference between 60% damage stat and 80% damage stat is 2 points of damage.


Basically sell me on the Recon Lasgun.. what is its niche? Where does it life? What does it excel at? Why should i bring the Recon Lasgun over other guns into Damnation?

I mean even with the Braced and Infantry Autogun, i at least can see what they are there for and even though its not a playstyle for me, i feel they have a right to exist, but the Recon Lasgun... as much as i want to like it, because lots of fire is fun, i don't feel like it does anything. It underwhelms me in the Psykhanium and in a mission i constantly wish i brought other weapons.

But if you say its good, then how do you use it? What Blessings and Perks are its must have? What do you need to pay attention to?

[ganjou241]

They need to make a node for Autoguns that interacts with crits like how shock trooper does with lasguns.

[BrutalBeast]

Ishan451 eredeti hozzászólása:

With the Recon MK VId i seem to be having about 1100 DPS give or take 100. And sure i get a bunch of crits. But even with 1100 DPS it feels behind what other guns offer me.

My Recon MK VId has about 1500dps to dreg rager and 1800dps to scab rager. 2100dps to Reaver and 900dps to Crusher.

It has 79% damage and +20% Flak. Dumdum 4 and Infernus 3.

[Mosey]

None of these walls of text mean jack diddly since Fatshark literally already said they are going to rework Veteran, again, from basically the ground up.

Because, you know, they're incompetent.

That is all.

[Ishan451]

Mosey eredeti hozzászólása:

None of these walls of text mean jack diddly since Fatshark literally already said they are going to rework Veteran, again, from basically the ground up.

Because, you know, they're incompetent.

That is all.

If you had bothered to read the threads you'd have known that none of this matters to the discussion. Recon Lasguns aren't even exclusive to the Veteran.