Why is everyone so racist?

[sg1darkcalling]

Racist and xenophobic LOL Its funny how brain washed and religious everyone is
But is there a reason for that. Like are their enemies truly that bad to deserve that xenophobia?

[Pokemastuh]

Originalmente postado por Moffin Bovin:

its so weird reading the comments to this thread.

the imperium are space nazis. Even their symbols like the 2 headed eagle are directly based on nazi iconography. The parallels are not subtle.

There doesn't need to be justification for their actions.

The imperium are bad guys. They are bad guys because they are. Everyone is. Every race is supposed to be on the same moral level. It's all just backstory for a tabletop war game about different armies with distinct personalities fighting each other.

Imperium bad because everyone bad. Everyone bad because that's the setting. It's grim. it's dark. its all about war.

If you start doing mental backfips to justify why and when "racism is necessary" then you're a bit lost in the sauce.

It's not a mental backflip to justify racism, it's the history of the Imperium and humanity as it's been placed before us by the writers. The Imperium is undeniably horrific, oppressive, authoritarian and very much xenophobic but they are that way due to the history it has experienced. If the men of iron never rebelled, if the trade routes had never been cut off, and if psykers didn't start turning into gateways for daemons the Imperium would likely be totally different or not even exist. The inquisition itself was formed because the Emperor saw what the betrayal of one of his most trusted sons did to the empire they had built and saw the need for a force that would safeguard it both inside and out.

Also I take umbrage with the idea that the double headed eagle is based on nazi iconography. The symbol is related to empires and is old as heck, dating back to ancient Sumeria. You can look across the world and find that image in the histories of Scotland, Russia, Spain, India, and yes Germany. Also the main nazi eagle symbols I can recal boast one head. I'm sure there's some two-headed ones out there somewhere but generally I believe the one where the eagle is holding the wreath with the swastika in it is single-headed.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originalmente postado por Pokemastuh:

It's not a mental backflip to justify racism, it's the history of the Imperium and humanity as it's been placed before us by the writers. The Imperium is undeniably horrific, oppressive, authoritarian and very much xenophobic but they are that way due to the history it has experienced. .

The imperium came first. it's history came second. The inquisition is the space version of the inquisition from warhammer, which are a cartoonish over the top parody of Inquisitions from European History in real life that ruthlessly murdered people and used religious pretences about demons and possession to justify it.

The writers started with Inquisitions + Space Nazis and worked backwards from there.

Originalmente postado por Pokemastuh:

Also the main nazi eagle symbols I can recal boast one head. I'm sure there's some two-headed ones out there somewhere but generally I believe the one where the eagle is holding the wreath with the swastika in it is single-headed.

no ♥♥♥♥ dingus. They didn't use actual nazi symbols. that would be insane. it's just derived from it.

[Simple Kind of Man]

The fact that yall think they are ORIGINALLY Nazi symbols.....and not from Rome/and other places, is just sad....even the swastika is not FROM them it had a history before thos losers....not everything go back to Nazis and Hitler LOL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsadler
facts are better then feelings.



ps. is it really racism if its true....? ie if we go to space and 9 out of 10 of the things we encounter try to kill or eat us would it be crazy to assume most things out there will try?

[BigJ]

The two headed eagle has represented often either nobility or military, to think it's a Nazi simbol is extremely ignorant.

There is a big difference between nazi ideology and authoritatives ideologies as well. The imperium is a theocracy with authoriyauve ideology and sprinkles of militarism similar in reasoning to Starship troopers, but tuned down.

[Pokemastuh]

Originalmente postado por Moffin Bovin:

Originalmente postado por Pokemastuh:

It's not a mental backflip to justify racism, it's the history of the Imperium and humanity as it's been placed before us by the writers. The Imperium is undeniably horrific, oppressive, authoritarian and very much xenophobic but they are that way due to the history it has experienced. .

The imperium came first. it's history came second. The inquisition is the space version of the inquisition from warhammer, which are a cartoonish over the top parody of Inquisitions from European History in real life that ruthlessly murdered people and used religious pretences about demons and possession to justify it.

The writers started with Inquisitions + Space Nazis and worked backwards from there.

Originalmente postado por Pokemastuh:

Also the main nazi eagle symbols I can recal boast one head. I'm sure there's some two-headed ones out there somewhere but generally I believe the one where the eagle is holding the wreath with the swastika in it is single-headed.

no ♥♥♥♥ dingus. They didn't use actual nazi symbols. that would be insane. it's just derived from it.

Okay? The fact that the Imperium's history was reworked in later editions doesn't change the fact that, at current, humanity and the Imperium are the way they are because of their in-universe history. The history it has been party to explains its kneejerk reaction to any sort of sedition, xenos, and mutants. It's a story, one with multiple elements that lead to a logical conclusion. The writers might change it someday, but right now it is as it is, so it's only fair to judge it as what it is, not what it was or what it will be. And just because something is inspired or derived from something else does not make it the equivalent of that thing. If it did then using the term "queer" would still be an insult, or it would mean "off-center" as it's original use meant.

Context matters, and in this context the Imperium is xenophobic and paranoid in the extreme due to their history, using the symbol chosen by their leader to represent themselves. There will be parallels, but I believe there's a fair argument to be made that they are more nuanced than just being nazis in space. As an aside, if you want nazis in space Iron Sky is certainly...a movie.

[Moffin Bovin]

Originalmente postado por Quis sum? Solus sum.:

The fact that yall think they are ORIGINALLY Nazi symbols.....and not from Rome/and other places, is just sad

literally no one said that.

the imperium are xenophobic fascists who's entire economy is based on their industrial war machine, fighting wars on multiple fronts.

They're space nazis. Its not that deep.

They are awful. They do awful things. you aren't supposed to inherently side with the humans as "the good guys" because its all just fluff for a tabletop strategy game. Every faction is equally awful so you can pick your favourite flavour of awful and have at it.

[Turbo Baconator]

Originalmente postado por Moffin Bovin:

Originalmente postado por Quis sum? Solus sum.:

The fact that yall think they are ORIGINALLY Nazi symbols.....and not from Rome/and other places, is just sad

literally no one said that.

the imperium are xenophobic fascists who's entire economy is based on their industrial war machine, fighting wars on multiple fronts.

They're space nazis. Its not that deep.

They are awful. They do awful things. you aren't supposed to inherently side with the humans as "the good guys" because its all just fluff for a tabletop strategy game. Every faction is equally awful so you can pick your favourite flavour of awful and have at it.

nope, wrong, try again

[FreezeZ]

Originalmente postado por Moffin Bovin:

Originalmente postado por Quis sum? Solus sum.:

The fact that yall think they are ORIGINALLY Nazi symbols.....and not from Rome/and other places, is just sad

literally no one said that.

the imperium are xenophobic fascists who's entire economy is based on their industrial war machine, fighting wars on multiple fronts.

They're space nazis. Its not that deep.

They are awful. They do awful things. you aren't supposed to inherently side with the humans as "the good guys" because its all just fluff for a tabletop strategy game. Every faction is equally awful so you can pick your favourite flavour of awful and have at it.

Just because they are militaristic and on galactic level authoritharian doesnt make them fascists.

And considering Imperium has next to zero control over singular planets even calling them authoritarian is a simplification

[BigJ]

Let's see.
- They don't control manufactoring or even have access to many of the blueprints, that's part of the mechanicus which are almost a fully separate thing.
- They have a lot of decentralization, to the point every planet is it's own thing.
- There is no institution that is clearly over the others, even the inquisition cannot as an example do anything about the Cult of Mars, the Astra Militarum often has to deal with planetary administrators and the Ecclesiarchy comes at blows with others often.

[El Macho]

*reload's bolt gun*
That is exactly what a heretic would say.

[Harukage]

Worlds inside the wide Imperium can range from barbaric to hi-tech and from neolithic clan system to progressive meritocracy. What nazi thing are you talking about?
And if you ask about how deserved is xenophobia? I can only answer - Yes. Eldar Empire alone was a horrific slaughter house for other races. No wonder no one trusts them. Not that they give much reasons to trust them now.

[coldgarden]

troll post for jester points obviously. Learn some 40k lore. Learn about the Dark Age of Technology and Old Night. Learn about the Unification Wars and the birth of the Imperium and you will understand the xenophobia of mankind. It is "in universe" there is no reason to bring this discussion "out of universe," it just would not apply.

[Krush]

Originalmente postado por coldgarden:

troll post for jester points obviously. Learn some 40k lore. Learn about the Dark Age of Technology and Old Night. Learn about the Unification Wars and the birth of the Imperium and you will understand the xenophobia of mankind. It is "in universe" there is no reason to bring this discussion "out of universe," it just would not apply.

Id like to learn some 40k lore as Ive never really played any Warhammer games aside from some vermintide 2. Its a shame there seems to be none to be found in Darktide.

[Pokemastuh]

Originalmente postado por Krush:

Originalmente postado por coldgarden:

troll post for jester points obviously. Learn some 40k lore. Learn about the Dark Age of Technology and Old Night. Learn about the Unification Wars and the birth of the Imperium and you will understand the xenophobia of mankind. It is "in universe" there is no reason to bring this discussion "out of universe," it just would not apply.

Id like to learn some 40k lore as Ive never really played any Warhammer games aside from some vermintide 2. Its a shame there seems to be none to be found in Darktide.

Try space marine. It's fun and it gives you a good start.

[Ishan451]

Originalmente postado por Quis sum? Solus sum.:

ps. is it really racism if its true....?

Yes. There is no such thing as justified racism. There is no justified part in the believe of superiority or inferiority of an entire group based on singular traits. Any scale is arbitrarily chosen and there is no universal applicable "superiority traits".

Humans are widely considered to be an Apex predator, due to a lot of reasons, and yet for hundreds of years Scientists have continuously struggled to somehow preserve the human "superiority" over animals on this planet. First it was speech, then we discovered animals communicate. Then it was tool use, then we discovered animals use tools.. then it was complex set of tactics and societal behaviors.... and then we discovered animals do those as well...

At this point we are down to "but we build a rocket to the moon", to justify the human superiority claim... and if that or "might makes right" really is the means to measure superiority against is still highly debated by philosophy and Ethic councils.

Originalmente postado por Quis sum? Solus sum.:

if we go to space and 9 out of 10 of the things we encounter try to kill or eat us would it be crazy to assume most things out there will try?

And that wouldn't make us racists or speciesist for that matter. Only when we bring in "divine right" or other means to justify our own superiority do the -ists come into play.

But you are aiming for the old "Are you paranoid if someone really out to get you?" In which case... yes, you are. The definition of Paranoia does include the possibility of having reason to be paranoid.

40k Humanity is racist because of the believe in the God Emperor and only the God Emperor being right and good. Which was done for the purpose of wanting to keep the masses from worshipping the dark powers, and turned to 11 by a civil war. Easiest way to turn against the Powers of Chaos at a time when all hope seemed lost and turning to the Dark Powers would have been the easiest on account of them having won (technically).

And pretty much any fundamental religion demands people being bigots.