bleed vs soulfire vs burn.

[IIFriggII]

copied in because it shows my concern very well.

honestly a lot of the problem would be fixed simply by giving soulfire a max stack like bleed, 16, and every soulfire effect would stack up to that, wildfire would allow 16 stacks movement, and so soulfire builts could be actual good.

soulfire currently has a max stack above 24 (i am guessing it doesn't have a max), but stacking them is not effectively possible.
staffs stacks only to 6, wildfire only to 4 and doesn't renew those that are at 4+, sword stack to 12, and ruin stacks to 24+ as the only thing that stacks effectively.
so effectively your spread will never be more than 4, which is kinda useless, your spread+staff crit proc will never be more than 6 stacks, which again are kinda useless, so only your sword on crit hits stack to 12 and nothing you will be hitting with your sword will survive that many hits to crit at least 2 times IF you had wildfire spread 4, staff crit range to 6 then double crit your sword to 12, then dodge away and do BB at a close target speciel to 16 stacks and NOW we are at the efficiency of an ogryn literally doing 3 heavy attacks, or literally two crit shot with a t4 bleed blessing ripper...

it shouldn't be hard to understand where the biggest problem is here.
will copy this into OP


___________
original
i find warpfire/soulfire incredibly bad compared to both burn but perticular bleed.
soulfire takes soo many traits, blessings and perks to just get to add stacks.
bleed literally add MAX stack with 1 shot of a ripper gun, or 3 heavy attack of a shield and adds to a large flocks of enemies.

essentially bleed has a 16 stack psyker ult ready on EVERY basic shot of a weapon or 6 stack on every heavy attack etc.

bleed also do WAY more dmg than soulfire in shorter time as well as adding up to a 60% dmg resist etc.

just saying soulfire is absolute garbage on t5 and its bc its so underwhelming and require ridiculess amount of speccing and STILL its weak as hell bc nothing stacks correctly, while bleed everything stacks effectively (though 16 stack is max for balance reasons; but even at 24+ stacks soulfire does less dmg to everything.
like 4 heavy attacks literally kill a bulwark with a ogryn shield due to bleed, 24 stacks soul slowly ticks it.

its really sad balance, fix it

[beN]

Vicid will shortly arrive and show you videos about how it's done.

[ChilliMcNugget]

Originally posted by beN:

Vicid will shortly arrive and show you videos about how it's done.

Oh boy, here we go again...

[2D > 3D WEEB 4 LIFE]

I don't think it's that bad but it shouldn't require multiple Feats to apply reliably.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by beN:

Vicid will shortly arrive and show you videos about how it's done.

exploiting 100% power on skredder, which shouldnt apply to soulfire dmg if not bugged, is still just being crappy and expecting everyone else to deal with everything.
when need be you ain't carrying, ccing or killing what is important with skredder soulfire ult built.
its gimmicky at best and only works when you could have brought literally any other built and still completed the run due to the rest of the group just headrolling it.
..

in comparison to bleed soulfire is utterly crap and on t5 as soon as you do the numbers soulfire builts are super crap in every aspect compared to various other builts.
its not good on any other t either but t4 and lower you could run t1 gear and still complete if you know how to play, so its harder to discuss bc people are extra stupid when that is the case

[I'M-BUSSING]

Psycher is the weakest damage dealer in the game vs big targets however he's the best trash ads clearer and you don't even need soulblaze or the flamestaff just use a void staff and aim at the head and use Warp unleashed it will maul hordes especially if you have one with surge.

[DotNL]

OP, did u try playing the game yet or atleast turn on your brain for a bit?

you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. end of story.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by DotNL:

OP, did u try playing the game yet or atleast turn on your brain for a bit?

you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. end of story.

your arguments are so convincing and i only got 300+ lvls ingame and 220+´of those on psyker with a vast amount of time testing.. but sure totally dont know and totally didnt give you clear wording off the problems.

i think you are the person who have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. end of story.

[beN]

Originally posted by Frigg:

Originally posted by DotNL:

OP, did u try playing the game yet or atleast turn on your brain for a bit?

you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. end of story.

your arguments are so convincing and i only got 300+ lvls ingame and 220+´of those on psyker with a vast amount of time testing.. but sure totally dont know and totally didnt give you clear wording off the problems.

i think you are the person who have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. end of story.

oh god, here we go.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by Nick Gurr:

Psycher is the weakest damage dealer in the game vs big targets however he's the best trash ads clearer and you don't even need soulblaze or the flamestaff just use a void staff and aim at the head and use Warp unleashed it will maul hordes especially if you have one with surge.

very true. my point was that when playing with bleeding i am just shaking my head of how absurdly dumbly bad soulfire is in comparison; and honestly they should be much the same thing, if anything soulfire should be better not vastly worse.

and that's the point in this thread. soulfire is just really bad and since the devs could make bleed pretty decent, there is little reason soulfire is made so badly and is ultimatedly so useless and adds next to nothing for the very large amount of blessing, traits and perks required when maximizing it ^^

[Vicid]

Originally posted by Frigg:

Originally posted by beN:

Vicid will shortly arrive and show you videos about how it's done.

exploiting 100% power on skredder, which shouldnt apply to soulfire dmg if not bugged, is still just being crappy and expecting everyone else to deal with everything.
when need be you ain't carrying, ccing or killing what is important with skredder soulfire ult built.

Is it fun/rewarding to be this ignorant of basic game mechanics?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az_Hjke8ceI&

Power buffing blessings increase the damage of bleeds. Is that a bug/exploit? Maybe you didn't realize it because shield has no power blessings ;(

I might look at the ogryn weapons/feats and see if there is a good build here. For now, I think Soulblaze is still far superior.

[IIFriggII]

honestly a lot of the problem would be fixed simply by giving soulfire a max stack like bleed, 16, and every soulfire effect would stack up to that, wildfire would allow 16 stacks movement, and so soulfire builts could be actual good.

soulfire currently has a max stack above 24 (i am guessing it doesn't have a max), but stacking them is not effectively possible.
staffs stacks only to 6, wildfire only to 4 and doesn't renew those that are at 4+, sword stack to 12, and ruin stacks to 24+ as the only thing that stacks effectively.
so effectively your spread will never be more than 4, which is kinda useless, your spread+staff crit proc will never be more than 6 stacks, which again are kinda useless, so only your sword on crit hits stack to 12 and nothing you will be hitting with your sword will survive that many hits to crit at least 2 times IF you had wildfire spread 4, staff crit range to 6 then double crit your sword to 12, then dodge away and do BB at a close target speciel to 16 stacks and NOW we are at the efficiency of an ogryn literally doing 3 heavy attacks, or literally two crit shot with a t4 bleed blessing ripper...

it shouldn't be hard to understand where the biggest problem is here.
will copy this into OP

edit:
true ripper is on crits bleed;
ty fixed it;
two crit shots in comparison to all this^^

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Frigg:

i find warpfire/soulfire incredibly bad compared to both burn but perticular bleed.
soulfire takes soo many traits, blessings and perks to just get to add stacks.
bleed literally add MAX stack with 1 shot of a ripper gun, or 3 heavy attack of a shield and adds to a large flocks of enemies.

So, we are comparing a Ripper gun with, i assume Cavalcade and Flechette, which causes increased Crit on continuous fire and +8 Bleed stacks on a crit (also due how crits work every shot of a burst will turn into a crit if that shot were to be a crit)... with an assured application of Soulburn via a Psyker?

As well as a shield attack on what i assume is an ogryn's shield... the one weapon nobody uses anymore?

And then claim that this is

Originally posted by Frigg:

essentially bleed has a 16 stack psyker ult ready on EVERY basic shot of a weapon or 6 stack on every heavy attack etc.

actually the norm? A crit on every shot? Meanwhile we are completely disregarding the Purgatus Staff of the Psyker and only compare it to a 4 warp charge Psyker special ability. Which given how broken Ascending Blaze right now is, isn't even a good pick compared to the alternative of building 2 Warp Charges when you would build one.

And we are also disregarding the application of soulburn via manual Brainbursting, which does about 1000 damage (750ish to Ogryns) without damage modifiers, which then also comes with a +25% damage bonus for the rest of the team (and yourself) should that first Brain Burst fail to kill the target?

Which also allows to apply soulburn to targets from the safety of cover...

Now i will agree that Soulburn was nerfed hard when they reduced its use against Flak armor along with the Flame stacks, to compensate for the Zealots ability to use their Special during using the Flamer. But at the same time, it seems like a very dishonest comparison.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by Vicid:

Originally posted by Frigg:

exploiting 100% power on skredder, which shouldnt apply to soulfire dmg if not bugged, is still just being crappy and expecting everyone else to deal with everything.
when need be you ain't carrying, ccing or killing what is important with skredder soulfire ult built.

Is it fun/rewarding to be this ignorant of basic game mechanics?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az_Hjke8ceI&

Power buffing blessings increase the damage of bleeds. Is that a bug/exploit? Maybe you didn't realize it because shield has no power blessings ;(

I might look at the ogryn weapons/feats and see if there is a good build here. For now, I think Soulblaze is still far superior.

you are being exceedingly rude and wrong.
nowhere in anything i said can you estrapolate that i am unaware that power buffs dots (damage over time).
i even say it is obviously a bug that power increase does so because it makes no sense; either way even knowing that there is extremely few cases where this will bare any effect, one of the only one being the shredder pistol 100% stagger power buffs combined with ult-soulfire.
but even here you are looking at MOST 12 stacks of soulfire dmg effect, which is LESS than two crit with a T4 bleed blessing Rippergun of an Ogryn and equal to Literally 2 heavy attacks of an ogryn.

you are sacrificing your ult trait, the faster BB lower Cost which can be an incredibly important one at specific moments, and you are using your ult sacrificing the 50% peril extending your 4stackwarp resist on your trauma staff +50% cast speed 8stack brittle MASS CC effect which effectively gives you 4+ more full charge cast doing AOE dmg off 1.200+ in a handfull off seconds; and more;
JUST to add a Dot effect that cost other classes two heavy attacks or 1 shot of their base weapon.
and that's you doing it super duper cheaply and ignoring all the other sources of soulfire that sucks up all your traits, perks and blessings, heavily handicapping you so much it's just laugheble on numbers ^^

hope this helped enlighten it ^^

[Al3x!el]

Soulfire bourns out a horde with no effort at all. The Ult of Psyker and Soulfly does spread the fire all over the place, other classes can't even touch the mob's and everything is dead.

The slower Monster bosses also get just owned using the staff and stacking soulfire on them.

I wonder why you belive it should be even stronger. There is no effort or risk to apply it or is it?

Playing the evescator and a bleed build can be more difficulty and that's why I belive the difference is justified. The weapon needs the perk for bleed to work.. at least for me.

[IIFriggII]

Originally posted by Scato Trahho:

Soulfire bourns out a horde with no effort at all. The Ult of Psyker and Soulfly does spread the fire all over the place, other classes can't even touch the mob's and everything is dead.

The slower Monster bosses also get just owned using the staff and stacking soulfire on them.

I wonder why you belive it should be even stronger. There is no effort or risk to apply it or is it?

Playing the evescator and a bleed build can be more difficulty and that's why I belive the difference is justified. The weapon needs the perk for bleed to work.. at least for me.

it really doesn't
wildfire spreads max 4 stacks, it doesn't renew it on 4+ stacks and that doesn't even kill a t5 unarmoared moaner.
anything hitting them would properly do the same with or without. as for using the ult i repeat that it is so expensive for something so little.
--
you are sacrificing your ult trait, the faster BB lower Cost which can be an incredibly important one at specific moments, and you are using your ult sacrificing the 50% peril extending your 4stackwarp resist on your trauma staff +50% cast speed 8stack brittle MASS CC effect which effectively gives you 4+ more full charge cast doing AOE dmg off 1.200+ in a handfull off seconds; and more;
JUST to add a Dot effect that cost other classes two heavy attacks or 1 shot of their base weapon.
and that's you doing it super duper cheaply and ignoring all the other sources of soulfire that sucks up all your traits, perks and blessings, heavily handicapping you so much it's just laugheble on numbers ^^
'


edit:
also
(staff doesn't stack over 6 stacks, which is 1 heavy attack in bleed stack, and its so little dmg it doesnt matter also staffs are for horde clear on bosses not dmg ^^)