Pistols, Stirring the pot or suggesting ideas?

[Some Bloke]

I want Bolt pistols, Plasma Pistols, Melta Guns (not pistols, as they used to be Blood Angel artefact only), Hand Flamers, Grav guns (hell if you can get them in Necromunda...)... FS pretty much left the crux of most common weapons out for lowly Inquisitional staff, with question of dual wielding thrown in, I mean they do it very well in Deathwing Spacehulk? But of course fix the bugs 1st and give us all the features... I think pistols are more common than giving out "special weapons" (larger cousins) as they are mass produced to the Guard for Squad Sergeants? Oh Power Fists are on the dream ask too but prob asking too much trust though...

And too stir the pot, Flak armour for ogryns, like the armour worn by the ogryn in the cutscenes, poster child. And not for Real Life Currency.

[Demonocolips]

more options are always welcome. though right now they really have to rebalance all the weapons so that everything is at least partially viable. sure at lower levels you can have fun with some weapons but as you go up their just not good enough to use.

[Ishan451]

Don't see the point in Pistols in Darktide. We have the Revolver, which serves your Anti armor needs and introducing Bolt or Plasma Pistols would only mean the Revolver would need to be adjusted to make room for Bolt and Plasma Pistols.

Don't see the point in Hand Flamer either, because ultimately that would just be a regular flamer with half or quarter of the ammunition pool.

Melta Guns would be nice, but the game isn't designed for them. I would expect Melta Guns to come with the ability to melt through a wall and the like. Terrain destruction and so on and so forth. Maybe in Darktide 2. In Darktide 1, it would at best be a suped up Shotgun... and then there is no reason to use the Shotgun anymore.

Don't think a Gravgun will work, as they tend to operate a bit to slow to me useful in Darktide. At least based on how they were done in Eternal Crusade, they needed to build "charge" on an enemy (slowing them in the process). That would make them entire trashtier in a fast paced game like Darktide. If they would generate a slow field around the target, then the Gravgun would be overpowered. I really don't think it will work in the confines of the game.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

FS pretty much left the crux of most common weapons out for lowly Inquisitional staff, with question of dual wielding thrown in, I mean they do it very well in Deathwing Spacehulk?

Ultimately we are talking about a Video game where things generally serve a design purpose. Providing some kind of gameplay that is different from other gameplay things. You generally don't just put things that is the same as another thing. Which is for example why i doubt there will ever be a "Ratling Sniper"... because nothing that Class would provide wouldn't already be covered by the Veteran and couldn't more easily provided by just adding the option to exchange the Ultimate.

When it comes to weapons, you have to ask yourself: "What do they provide that weapons in the game don't already provide?"

Crusher vs Thunder Hammer is a good example in this. Crusher is a more Crowd Control focused version of the Thunder Hammer, while the Thunder Hammer excells at single Target damage. Crusher is also the "middle" between Eviscerator and Thunder Hammer.

And you can just sell a Skin that makes the Crusher look like a Power Maul/Mace, without actually needing to add a Power Maul/Mace. (Incidentially i think we already have such a skin in the game)

I think realistically speaking what i could see would be a Needler Gun, delivering neuro toxins. Extremely high rate of fire, no recoil and pretty much kills anything bigger than a groaner or poxwalker by poison alone.

But it would be akin to the Primary Fire of the Flamer, not the "hose" but the single flame squirt, that adds a few burn stacks on the enemy and then you have to wait for them to slowly die of their burn stacks. I cannot imagine people would want to use a weapon like that in Darktide.

Would be cool to have these things, but i don't think they fit into the game.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

Oh Power Fists are on the dream ask too but prob asking too much trust though...

Given how much people already cry about the Power Sword of the Veteran... can you imagine how much they'd cry if the Veteran suddenly would get what is functionally a Power Hammer too?

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

And too stir the pot, Flak armour for ogryns, like the armour worn by the ogryn in the cutscenes, poster child. And not for Real Life Currency.

Don't hold your breath for any new non real currency cosmetics in this game. If we are lucky, we'll get a few more free texture versions or the ability to color cosmetics ourselves, but i very much doubt you'll get new free cosmetics.

[Some Bloke]

Good points but on that note, everyone will start carrying the same gear to make rounded generic builds. That is the beauty or some weapons being more favourable, like a Bolt Pistol that reloads easier with seven rounds.

A power glove that may be slower and only give heavy hits etc. Pretty much like in the table top rules.

Grav guns would be good for armoured targets slowing and bleeding perhaps. Hand Flamers that have 50% fuel and quicker reload.

Melta guns could be a shot of microwave heat radiation that passes through targets, as described in the lore and used in Spacemarine the computer game. I mean currently the plasma gun is more of a shot gun and not a rapid firing rifle from the table top game, but it still has its charged shot.

Technically again pistols are and are used for Close Quarter Combat, and Imperial Agents always carry some sort of weapon, holstered. Which is why besides the Lasgun and Bolter, I question having missed using pistols from the get go? Especially if most of the dev team quoted they play the table top rules?

As for skins, I know a lot of people refunded when they found out about the Aquilas currency. And the skins are in the game already, if they are using in game assets to make the cut-scenes.

[Commander Hitman2b]

personnally i would love to have a secondary weapons in prime of the melée weapons

[357 Magnum Ace]

What would be unique about them? Merely that they have mobility, maybe higher chance for run and gun? Rn fatshark fails to balance its existing set of weapons, so I'm hesitant to widely expand the list like this.

[Bovril Brigadier]

Meltaguns have been datamined
Plasma Pistols exist already and can be seen in use by some bosses.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

Good points but on that note, everyone will start carrying the same gear to make rounded generic builds.

There will always be a Meta Build to rule them all. I've had to many people explain to me, over the years, about how even a 1% statistical advantage is somehow making or breaking a thing. Granted most of these discussions were in PvP games, where people argued that the 1% faster RoF would provide a massive advantage over other people... but its this competitive mindset you'll experience in any game, where someone will find the most effective way of doing things.

Personally, i don't really care what you bring as long as I don't have to carry you, but even that gets increasingly difficult in this game, where you have people bring what they want and expect the rest of the team to pick up their slack.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

That is the beauty or some weapons being more favourable, like a Bolt Pistol that reloads easier with seven rounds.

The problem, when it comes to games development and introduction of new things, you have to justify them to some money person. You have to tell him why the guy from the Art Department spend days on end designing a model for X, when in reality its just Cherry Flavor for the lemonade you already sell.

I am not saying that makes it good or fair, but from a Development perspective you have to ask yourself "where does this fit?" "what does it bring to my customers that isn't already in the game? And can i achieve this in a less labor intensive way?"

For example.. the Bolt Pistol... instead of making an entire new gun... you could simply make a Blessing that halfs the ammo, in favor of equipspeed and recoil reduction. You don't need an entire new asset, animations, sound design... all you needed was a Blessing that tweaks some stats.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

A power glove that may be slower and only give heavy hits etc. Pretty much like in the table top rules.

But who would use this weapon then? Lots, if not most, Zealot players already avoid using the Thunder Hammer, because it doesn't kill fast enough. Giving an even slower version of it to the Veteran... realistically, who'd be using this one?

How does one justify all the animation, graphic design, sound design and so on and so forth when in the end nobody will want to use it? I mean except for a handful "roleplayers".

And don't get me wrong, in a Perfect World we'd have all the guns from the Lore, with no regards given to the viability of it... and even if its only one person using it, its job well done..

But when proposing these ideas, then there needs to be some benefit beyond "wouldn't it be cool to have X". It needs to fill some niche.. some gameplay that isn't already available and that has a good chance to be used by hundreds if not thousands of people.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

Melta guns could be a shot of microwave heat radiation that passes through targets, as described in the lore

There are a lot of Melta guns with different technologies. The microwave stuff is AFAIK pretty old lore, these days they work a little different, at least based on recent novels.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

and used in Spacemarine the computer game.

And that Video game tells you why we'll never get it. A one click hall clearer that just vaporizes the hallway and any enemy within it, is pretty much not what the Dev wants. And if you look over to the "Flamethrower trivalizes content" discussions, you can be sure there would be a huge amount of backlash to such a weapon.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

Which is why besides the Lasgun and Bolter, I question having missed using pistols from the get go?

There are only so many buttons on a controller. Pretty much why since the early 2000, when FPS started to be developed with Consoles in mind, we have gone away from the classic hero with 10 guns... and towards the 2 guns + one special ability model.

You have 2 weapons in this game because between Melee Weapon, Ranged weapon, you need to have 2 more buttons for Deployable and Scanner/Mission Item.

Darktide's Console Port might be on hold... allegedly... but the game is still meant to be a multi platform title... which means control scheme has to fit a controller.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

Especially if most of the dev team quoted they play the table top rules?

I don't believe a word they say. You don't write a horrendeous story like the one we got, when you have any clue about the 40k Universe. You write a story like that from a very superficial point of view, with maybe access to some wiki pages.

There is a reason they had Dan Abnett as consultant to answer questions for them.. and that reason isn't that the Devs are somehow fans of 40k.

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

As for skins, I know a lot of people refunded when they found out about the Aquilas currency. And the skins are in the game already, if they are using in game assets to make the cut-scenes.

This is Fatshark we are talking about. They sank War of the Roses with their predatory cosmetics model, they tanked War of the Nordmen because they again put paid for cosmetics over Development... and then they went to Vermintide where they again, sell you cosmetic gallore, but finally realized that Warhammer Fanbase is much more forgiving as long as the predatory business model comes in a vaneer of Warhammer.

Seriously, its gonna be a small miracle if we get new free cosmetics.

[Shorty]

More pistols would be very cool, if you could wield a melee weapon with it.

[luZk]

I too want bolt/plasma pistols, and a commissar cosmetics pack to go with it.

[kekkuli]

First make psyker great again please.

[=][=Alduran=][=]

I want a real sniper weapon like longlas gun.
I know it would not be very effective in T5. The weapon that comes close are the Helbore Lasguns, and of the three variants only one is viable. The MK II has a sustained dps of 1800. With volley fire it's 3300 dps for the whole mag.

[Arani]

Originally posted by Some Bloke:

A power glove that may be slower and only give heavy hits etc. Pretty much like in the table top rules.

Ohhh omg this would be great! I imagine it should be fairly easy to balance fist weapons. Fast and strong strikes but zero cleave. Kinda like the combat axe, but then a chance to power it up for really powerful strong stagger strikes against those elites. And no Brutal Momentum blessings for this one. Your horde combat would literally just be "pow pow pow" tapping them one at a time but really quickly.

[luZk]

Applies brittle and stagger on hit.