Game is not very LORE accurate for Imperial Guards.

[Amogus]

I am not expecting the game to be lore accurate but need to be closer right? you have 4 regular troopers, 4 penal troopers at that soloing hordes upon hordes of chaos forces, putting space marine to shame, if this is the power level of low teir trash troopers that is lower than a white shield conscript, one must wondering how the ♥♥♥♥ imperium is even losing anything.

what this game should have been is a space marine game, the guard is renowed for it's numbers, and armored corps, and if this is a guard missions, they need to be at least augmented super human of stormtroopers not penal troopers, send with 1 or 2 company wroth of guardsmen, supported by heavy weapon team like several auto cannons, heavy bolter machine guns, plasma, melta and flamer weapon specialists, 1 or 2 chirmra a sentinel or 2 maybe even a lemon russ tank.

and no i won't take edge case like sly marble or any other books with special characters, we are talking about COMMON guards men here. if you can't accept other races as playable how can you possibly accept this game is any thing close to how the guard POV is!?

[Wingnut Mcmoomoo]

Първоначално публикувано от 357 Magnum Ace:

No this is lore accurate, you just need to view the acolytes in the same way as named heroes of the novels.

it's basically this, we are the special edge cases, if you listen to the talk of the npcs around by the end of the story you are a abnormally strong

[ArterialSpray1066]

Since you are so keen for examples from tabletop, did you ever play Inquisitor?
because guard veterans in that game were VERY capable. And that was the sort of game you would get a Veteran, an Arbetise and a sanctioned psyker taking apart a marine.

But as others have said: this isn't a game about guard penal legions. its about an inquisitorial retinue of remarkable individuals.
Psykers and ogryn are capable of some incredible things, even without being veterans in their own right. And the vet/zaelot are the sort of crazy skilled and experienced people who can keep up with that.

Also: Step up and read some lore which isn't about space marines because the guard do this stuff all the time. The Last Chancers or Tanith first and only. even regular squads of PDF or Valhallans lead by Cain, manage to slaughter hoards of orks, and cleave through regular old cultists.

[Harukage]

OP is constantly using "White Shields" wording. Wich is a very Cadian specific formation of teenager conscripts going through their baptism of fire in regular regiments.
And that in turns bring me to a conclusion that his main source of information on Astra Militarum is a very outdated Fluff Bible.
Also Imperial Guard is not always loosing like he imply. There is a very solid fact the IG is the main imperial army that is constantly fighting through a wast space of the Imperium? with all races and monsters you can imagine, And Imperium of Man still stands. Space marines and the rest have like 0.001% of numbers and effort in hard fought victories of Mankind.
And like it was already said Astra Militarum has a large disparity of equipment, doctrines and organisanion between regiments. What you see on TT is the most generalized version.

[hawk7389]

If you are trying to be lore friendly, then they wouldn't waste a Space Marine chapters time to put down a chaos cult uprising like this anyway. A single space marine would be way overkill for what the four characters are tackling in these missions.

[357 Magnum Ace]

Първоначално публикувано от hawk7389:

If you are trying to be lore friendly, then they wouldn't waste a Space Marine chapters time to put down a chaos cult uprising like this anyway. A single space marine would be way overkill for what the four characters are tackling in these missions.

Given the scale of the infestation and Atoma's importance on a local and seemingly global scale (for its mobian steel), I could actually see a fireteam of marines being appropriate to station if the Inquisitorial first response falters or greater deamons begin appearing.

[Amogus]

Първоначално публикувано от Harukage:

OP is constantly using "White Shields" wording. Wich is a very Cadian specific formation of teenager conscripts going through their baptism of fire in regular regiments.
And that in turns bring me to a conclusion that his main source of information on Astra Militarum is a very outdated Fluff Bible.
Also Imperial Guard is not always loosing like he imply. There is a very solid fact the IG is the main imperial army that is constantly fighting through a wast space of the Imperium? with all races and monsters you can imagine, And Imperium of Man still stands. Space marines and the rest have like 0.001% of numbers and effort in hard fought victories of Mankind.
And like it was already said Astra Militarum has a large disparity of equipment, doctrines and organisanion between regiments. What you see on TT is the most generalized version.

i am simply stating it as example, since everyone should know about cadian at this point. there are plenty of low tier trash units that guards regiment uses on the regular. most PDF are kinda trash unless you are talking about famous worlds that produce some of the famous legion. some PDF are still using bows and arrows, some look like modern day military, some are in the napleonic war era. 90% of the guards are fighitng against small orks warbands or occasional human rebellions that are NOT CHAOS related. but obviously this is a fight against a massive CHAOS invasion on a relative important HIVE world that clearly seem to supply tanks and other armored vehicle in the sector which mean this should have as other point out at least a space marine fire team presence.

[Harukage]

It is not an invasion it is an uprising. It is only located in a single hive on the planet ( and there must more of them by logic ). And afaik it is still functioning. It is a work for the Inquisition if not Arbitres. Space Marines have better work to do if even available.

[357 Magnum Ace]

Първоначално публикувано от Harukage:

It is not an invasion it is an uprising. It is only located in a single hive on the planet ( and there must more of them by logic ). And afaik it is still functioning. It is a work for the Inquisition if not Arbitres. Space Marines have better work to do if even available.

From the conversations in the game this planet seems to have just two hives. The other hive you get chastised for asking about and told to forget about it. That it's not good to be asking those questions.

This gives us reason to believe that hive is either already fully lost or was defiled in the past and rendered so unholy it cannot be used or even talked about.

It is also worth noting that this is supposedly the best hive in a few sectors, has unique metals it exports, and I *think* serves as a seat of local government for the planets. That notches it up the importance scale for the Imperium.

Though we seem to be in the Dark Imperium by what Hadron says about the Astronomicon and reinforcements and so we may be all there really is to spare and it'd be the Emperor's grace to get marines out here.

[ArterialSpray1066]

Even if marines were warranted, they might be weeks, months, years away, or (with warp shenanigans and the whole galaxy being split in two) simply never coming.

What is available is a rogue trader vessel loaded with inquisitorial troops and a few ad-hoc squads of quite remarkable veterans of various fields pressed into kill teams.

There are already guard and PDF fighting on the planet (we just don't get involved in the big stuff)) and the auric (gold) class agents we keep fetching ammo for (which could well be sororitas or marines).

[Moffin Bovin]

this is where they made the mistake of letting us create our own custom characters.

if they were named characters then it would be lore accurate because named characters have plot armour and are the strongest things in the 40k universe.

[357 Magnum Ace]

Първоначално публикувано от Moffin Bovin:

this is where they made the mistake of letting us create our own custom characters.

if they were named characters then it would be lore accurate because named characters have plot armour and are the strongest things in the 40k universe.

The only difference here is you choose the name and the characters have less depth and richness as opposed to static ones. Nothing else really changes because I'm sure they'd be using OC not established novel characters.

[Ishan451]

Първоначално публикувано от Moffin Bovin:

this is where they made the mistake of letting us create our own custom characters.

Not a mistake at all. It is actually a good thing what they did. It means we no longer need 20+ careers just so every "type" of character class exists 4 times, because you cannot play 2 Kruber in the same mission.

In my book the fixed characters were one of the biggest detriment of the game. Being unable to play the Elf, since i like Archers, because the Wayfinder was the Meta or her Spear throw was overpowered or whatever... was annoying as hell.

Not to mention that my friend constantly hogged the Priest/Inquisitor, and the 3rd one wouldn't play anything but Sienna. Only times I would get any of them was when they weren't around.

So no, thank you... at least this time around and i can just go "nah, mate, today i like playing Zealot" or "Psyker", even if that means we are going into a mission with 4 psykers. I don't need to be a Budget version with Kerillian just because i feel like playing Wizard and my friend go in before me to select Sienna before i could.

One of the worst features of the Vermintide games are the locked characters.

Първоначално публикувано от Moffin Bovin:

if they were named characters then it would be lore accurate because named characters have plot armour and are the strongest things in the 40k universe.

Even if, for some reason, one would want to be hardcore about the Lore, then the number of exceptional individuals also wouldn't break the law. You are unlikely to have thousands of friends and the few people you play on the regular with, aren't enough to push it into the "unbelievable" level.

You are not playing with hundreds of people, and chances are, even if you are PUGing, then you will likely not remember the vast majority of people you played with. Meaning it is easy to dismiss their extraordinary feat at that day as them having a once in a lifetime lucky experience.

There is nothing in the story that makes other people special individuals, except for you. And if you have a regular team, then even those aren't enough to break the believability scale in an Inquisitorial Routine, where only the best of the best are recruited.

Първоначално публикувано от 357 Magnum Ace:

because I'm sure they'd be using OC not established novel characters.

Gamesworkshop is never going to allow anyone to touch official characters, unless they waive their rights. GW learned their lesson with Malal. The reason Malal isn't mentioned anymore, despite being hugely popular and the 5th big Chaos God, is because its a creation by the comic book artist, who they parted ways with.

Blizzard, certainly made sure GW became as protective of its copyright as it is today.

[Zarious101]

MFW I read the Tanith under corbec in vurvanhive go 5v1 against zoican shock troops and tanks *COUGH* , besides it's a game, have fun.

[Amogus]

Първоначално публикувано от Zarious101:

MFW I read the Tanith under corbec in vurvanhive go 5v1 against zoican shock troops and tanks *COUGH* , besides it's a game, have fun.

so why can't we play as space marines! we need space marine imo.

[Ishan451]

Първоначално публикувано от WAFFLE:

Първоначално публикувано от Zarious101:

MFW I read the Tanith under corbec in vurvanhive go 5v1 against zoican shock troops and tanks *COUGH* , besides it's a game, have fun.

so why can't we play as space marines! we need space marine imo.

Because not every 40k title needs a skittles colored smurf in it. If you need them so desperately, in a horde shooter, go play Space Hulk: Deathwing. You'll have green colored smurfs all day long.