Halaman Toko
Warhammer 40,000: Darktide
Semua Diskusi Screenshot Ilustrasi Siaran Video Berita Panduan Ulasan

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide

Halaman Toko
Lihat Statistik:
Pencapaian Global
CopperBack 6 Jan 2023 @ 6:23pm
2
Remove Coherency
The whole coherency regeneration is super weird, if your the last one standing it won't even trigger and if your a front liner trying to draw fire or flank your extremely vulnerable. Seems like it was designed to force team play by proximity but really just forces getting in each others way, less interesting cluster game play and into kill zones.

...Instead maybe...

-Toughness regen when out of combat
-Coherency class/talent buffs apply when class alive

This would make extended range fights more interesting, giving melee more chance to recover behind walls and allow more variety in successful tactics. There are of course blessings and talents that help generate toughness too but seems sloppy to have such a weak baseline regen especially at higher end difficulties.

Team play is necessary by design of specials so it would still be necessary to regroup or break off in pairs. Lead Designer "You have to let the game require you to cooperate. There must be scenarios where you can’t handle yourself"
Terakhir diedit oleh CopperBack; 7 Jan 2023 @ 11:59am
Pembuat topik ini telah menandai postingan yang menjadi jawaban pertanyaan.
Klik di sini untuk melihat postingannya.
Diposting pertama kali oleh tyke:
Diposting pertama kali oleh KTVindicare:
It's not a penalty you nitwit. You're not being penalized for being a certain arbitrary distance away, you're being REWARDED for staying next to your team.

Obviously in the heat of battle people can get separated. You don't lose anything except some minor buffs, with the idea that everyone is supposed to collect back together again as soon as they can.

Read your own posts dude, you're rambling on and on about how it's bad and arbitrary game design when you can't even answer the question about what's bad about it.

It's a system of buffs to encourage people to stay next to each other. The only the ONLY penalty if you can even call it that is a lack of passive toughness regeneration. That's all. It's not a big deal.

Why don't you tell me the real reason you hate it so much because you're not convincing anyone with this ranting and raving about it being "arbitrary." That's not a good enough excuse to justify removing it. It's also wrong too, it's not arbitrary.
Don't become rude towards me. There's no need to talk about the intelligence of others, you can simply go and look at your net worth and know the reality of your intelligence.

We are discussing a core part of gameplay design. Whether there is passive shield regen is a decision of importance and influences all other aspects of gameplay design. What does it say about a team who decides that should be based around pandering to some bs at the lowest levels of play instead of a meaningful decision for how it is designed?

Again, you haven't made an argument for why it should be in the game, the only argument is orientated around sacrificing gameplay design for pandering to toxic players at the lowest and ugliest levels of play.

When we discuss Coherency we are discussing everything else about the game. This is about End Game, Loot system, crafting, future DLC, everything.

Coherency is a symbol of a disease in Fatshark that is antithetical to making good gameplay. Coherency is something which is a detriment to the game at its best in order to try and "fix" something which toxic people complain about for the game at its ugliest lowerst levels of play. What Coherency embodies is a cancer at the core of Fatshakr that they're not going to prioritise making a good game for gamers, they're going to prioritise the experience of newer players, or at least a vocal minority of newer players who were control freaks and went on forums complaining about their issue with the game was some other new players "running off", and sacrifice the gameplay design with something like Coherency which won't even make a difference to these supposed problems in the tutorial levels of the game.

To make a successor to Vermintide you shoud look at your average cata game, or Legend game, of people playing the meta game at the meta difficulty and ask how you can improve it.
Fatshark instead took seriously individuals who go on forums to complain about how other players played and blame others for their own failures.

When you look at the actual game and how it's actually played, generally when the team is together it is the EASIEST situation and is when the team is at their STRONGEST, and when the team is split up that is because it is a hectic situation where the team has been thrown around and torn all over the place or players are doing daring teamwork at very high levels of play and that is the HARDEST situation when the team is MOST VULNERABLE. Those are the places in gameplay where you want to give players something to work with to give them a way out to produce those knife's edge gaming experiences.
Fatshark not only have not looked at this best most beautiful part of their game and carefully tailored their gameplay design to improve it, maybe make the game a lot more difficult outside of those situations in order to increase those situations and then give players better ways of handling those hectic situations, not only Fatshark taken no care whatsoever for this part of their game which actually makes it worth PLAYING of where it is most beautiful, but in fact Fatshark have completely written it off and indireclty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with it in favour of some crap about some awful awful individual who is just a scrub at life no doubt who sucked and instead of blaming themselves they went on forums to tell strangers how it was the fault of other strangers.

When there's a difficult boss fight and then a player sees a horde coming and a bottle neck and they can go to the bottleneck and hold the horde there while the other players manage the boss and other mobs and help another player up off the floor or whatever - even down to the simple little things like getting sent flying by blcokiong a boss attack and now they're out of the pointless arbitrary coherency mechanic; Coherency mechanic introduces itself! Genius! So meaningul! So helpful! Great gameplay design!

When there's a boss fight and hordes and elites overwhelming the team and the player with aggro pulls the boss away from the team.

When it's completely chaos and all 4 brilliant players fighting their hardest and chased around the area trying to regroup - you're giving them a penalty while they're trying to regroup, when they get together they're then in a stronger position - OH! Give htem a buff when they fix the situation and regroup and until then debuff! GENIUS GAMEPLAY DESIGN!

When it's desperate situation and 1 player is down, other 2 teammates low health and struggling, and you see the death blow of another horde coming that will finish off your team and you pull them away from the team to give the team some breathing room.

When you're kiting a ton of aggro and if you bring it back to the team you will get the team killed and you're getting hit by all these ranged enemies and you're trying your best to manage all this aggro and it's so much you 're not getting many opportunties to melee to get toughness and the ranged enemies are hitting you etc

That's the high level teamplay where the game is at its BEST and where the game SHINES and is most satisfying about the gameplay, and Fatshark have decided to change the gameplay design so that this actual gameplay incurs arbitrary pointless ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ debuffs so that instead the gameplay design is balanced around the ugliest lowest level of play on tutorial difficulties.
When these things are happening a factor of what is happening is a stupid ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mechanic pandering to some toxic scrubs who talk crap about how other new players pressed ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WSAD and if they roleplayed SWAT TEAM at the lowest ugliest level of play.
All of HOW THIS IMPORTANT HIGH LEVEL STUFF PLAYS has been sacrificed with the priority of the lowest ugliest dumbest level of play for new players concerning what some toxic scrubs complained about on forums of how other people pressed ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WSAD. Seriously, and here are people defending that.

Of course all of this even needing to be pointed out to contrarianists who think there is some argument for coherency in terms of the actual game how it actually plays is just testament to they have no real experience of the game and how ti works and what is beautiful about Tide.

If Fatshakr wanted ot make a GOOD GAME with good gameplay designed around the active players then they wouldn't be deciding on something core like whether toughness has passive regen and basing that decision on the priority of pandering to toxic whiners on forums who say nasty things about how other new players pressed WSAD.


People complain about
CRAFTING SYSTEM
LOOT SYSTEM
MISSION SYSTEM
and so on
all this stuff basically about LACK OF END GAME, but the thing that really shows the metastiatic cancer OF ALL OF THESE THINGS IS COHERENCY.

You understand why the game has these problems with loot, crafting, missions, the lack of end game when you simply look at THEY PUT COHERENCY IN THE GAME. The game is made to be a short fun experience of a few hours and that's what Coherency embodies. Coherency is Fatshark dumbing down the game to the ugliest lowest level of play; sacrficing core parts of the gameplay design decisions of passive toughness regen in favour of how can we improve the experience for people who just play the game for a few days and then never touch it again?

If Fatshark can have a roundtable discussion and end up agreeing on 'Coherency' THEN WHAT DO PEOPLE EXPECT?
If Fatshark can agree to sacrifice the gameplay design for ♥♥♥♥ like Coherency then what do you expect the look system will be like??
What do people expect the mission system will be like when the game has Coherency?
What do people expect the crafting system will be like?
What do epople expect the end game will be like when you have devs who put Coherency in the game?
A core part of the gameplay design itself is completely disregaridng it actually being played as a game, is disreagrding how the game plays, in favour of something may possibly slightly help the newbie experience.

OH, does Darktide seem like there's not much to it after playing for a few days? Yeah, you can summarise that with COHERENCY.
< >
Menampilkan 16-30 dari 125 komentar
Vikings 7 Jan 2023 @ 9:43am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh Rianne:
Diposting pertama kali oleh Moffin Bovin:
i reckon the last person alive should get a special "last man standing" buff that gives them coherency with themself.

Especially for the poor ogryn. Everyone else can get toughness back at range. the Vet can just hide, the psyker can quell or pop heads, even the zealot can press F to regain some toughness if they are desperate, but the poor ogryn is vulnerable to getting his hp chipped away by just a couple of spread out shooters.

Trying to clutch as an ogryn can be very very rough sometimes.

If only Ogryn had a weapon option that can negate all ranged firepower. :P

It doesnt do that. At the moment anyway, the shield when blocking ranged guys drops your stam at front black as bad as a back block melee hit. Slab shield really needs some re-tooling.
#16
MrGameNuke 7 Jan 2023 @ 9:43am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh sQuark:
it would be nice if you could do simple things like set up on high ground and allow melee characters to do their thing while you support. but that wouldnt be a mindless deathball and thats the only way fs wants you to play. also literally everyone just spouting "bleh just play together" is a brainlette that actively sabotages themselves by not asking for a wider range of tactics and synergy (gameplay content). maybe they are scared about the concept of needing to plan for an encounter. idk.
It is possible to setup some fun scenarios like you're describing, I've had some work better than the "actual" way to play some objectives. Though it's very map dependant, and you have to rely on your teammates being on the same page as you
Terakhir diedit oleh MrGameNuke; 7 Jan 2023 @ 9:47am
#17
qqgachoo 7 Jan 2023 @ 10:00am 
skill issue.
#18
Moffin Bovin 7 Jan 2023 @ 10:00am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh Rianne:

If only Ogryn had a weapon option that can negate all ranged firepower. :P

unless your plan is to sit back with your shield up and wait until the enemy die of boredom, you are going to have to either shoot back or get up close and melee the enemies. You can't shoot back with your shield up and you are going to be better off with a cleaver if you are charging in to melee them.

also, the blocking angle on a shield is much smaller than you think. especially when enemies are on higher elevation.
#19
qqgachoo 7 Jan 2023 @ 10:02am 
also: shield is S tier high skill ceiling weapon and anyone telling you that cleaver is better has no idea what they are talking about and very likely regularly fail heresy+ runs.
#20
Full Shane 7 Jan 2023 @ 10:04am 
Lemme guess. Knife Zealot?
#21
Moffin Bovin 7 Jan 2023 @ 10:05am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh tsundoku81:
also: shield is S tier high skill ceiling weapon and anyone telling you that cleaver is better has no idea what they are talking about and very likely regularly fail heresy+ runs.

im literally talking about solo clutch where you are the last person alive and theres a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of shooters. The longer you take to kill enemies the more time they have to shoot at you.

cleaver swing faster. cleaver kill faster.
#22
CopperBack 7 Jan 2023 @ 10:14am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh tsundoku81:
also: shield is S tier high skill ceiling weapon and anyone telling you that cleaver is better has no idea what they are talking about and very likely regularly fail heresy+ runs.

even if shield is the best god tier how boring to run up and block while everyone else plays the game, I'd rather lose having fun than use shield weapon special.
#23
MrGameNuke 7 Jan 2023 @ 10:19am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh tsundoku81:
also: shield is S tier high skill ceiling weapon and anyone telling you that cleaver is better has no idea what they are talking about and very likely regularly fail heresy+ runs.
The slab is a very strong defensive option, but calling it a "high skill ceiling" weapon is funny to me. It has some of the easiest chains across all the Tide games, you can left click spam all the way up through Heresy.

CopperBack has it right, playing the slab optimally is a lot of just standing there waiting for the Vets to clean up what's shooting at you.
#24
mdcpaladin 7 Jan 2023 @ 10:43am 
OP got booted for being a bad player and likely causing a wipe
#25
BigJ 7 Jan 2023 @ 11:03am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh Rianne:
Diposting pertama kali oleh BigJ:
You get about 3-6% toughness per kill, if you want to carry kill, this is a common thing for the tide series.

Isn't it 5% -7.5%? 5% for all classes, 7.5% for a Veteran and Preacher with the talent? (seriously, Veteran "heals" 3 times as much toughness then a melee class)
I'd like to see a source for that veteran "suposed" increase, but yes for preacher it's 7.5%
#26
Beltalowda 7 Jan 2023 @ 11:06am 
No, thank you.
#27
CopperBack 7 Jan 2023 @ 11:07am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh BigJ:
Diposting pertama kali oleh Rianne:

Isn't it 5% -7.5%? 5% for all classes, 7.5% for a Veteran and Preacher with the talent? (seriously, Veteran "heals" 3 times as much toughness then a melee class)
I'd like to see a source for that veteran "suposed" increase, but yes for preacher it's 7.5%

https://i.imgur.com/GNZlGxo.png data minded data spreadsheet from redit, alot of interesting class details.
Terakhir diedit oleh CopperBack; 7 Jan 2023 @ 11:07am
#28
LoveTruffle 7 Jan 2023 @ 11:10am 
If you need coherency to stay standing, you are not yet ready to carry, my young Padawan.
#29
olstar18 7 Jan 2023 @ 11:11am 
Diposting pertama kali oleh Vikings:
Diposting pertama kali oleh Rianne:

If only Ogryn had a weapon option that can negate all ranged firepower. :P

It doesnt do that. At the moment anyway, the shield when blocking ranged guys drops your stam at front black as bad as a back block melee hit. Slab shield really needs some re-tooling.
Use your alt attack button with the shield.
#30
< >
Menampilkan 16-30 dari 125 komentar
Per halaman: 1530 50

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide > The Mourningstar - General Discussions > Rincian Topik
Tanggal Diposting: 6 Jan 2023 @ 6:23pm
Postingan: 125

Pedoman dan Aturan Diskusi