The Imperium is lame and same goes for everyone that likes them unironically

[Derpro]

Why do we have to play as them, again?

[Kanjejou]

tyke の投稿を引用：

Imperium is simply an Empire.

Sci-fi before 40k was very poliitcal and the post-ww2, and pre-ww2 20th century world, was hand-in-hand with the utpoianism of Sci-Fi.

40k is a parody of those Liberal and Communist and Utopian ideas prevelant in Sci-Fi. In 40k there's a progressive vision to fulfill a destiny and live in utopia and instead it leads to hell.

The hell it leads to isn't nothing and everything.

The Imperium of man is intentionally full of everykind of influence. Bolsheviks, Industiral Revolution Roman Empire, French Revolution, U.S.A, WW2, WW1, there isn't much to do with Fascism or Nazim, except the Space Marines very Nazi SS, especially originally Space Marines in the artwork it's all SS poster boys and they have all these SS runes.

Imperium of Man is really everything except Fascism and Nazism naturally so as Chaos Marines are the Nazis and Fascists who gain too much power and go renegade and who betrayed the Grand Utopian Liberal project. Particulalry Nazism, the whole Nazi philosophy was about embracing irrationality of man.
Anyone who looks at the Imperium and thinks of Nazism or Fascism is completely historically illiterate, it borders or wondering if their history is so bad that they're confusing Soviet Union for Germany or something. Nazism and Fascism was the story of people HAVING IT SO GOOD that they go crazy, completely power-tripping, in-fashion, vogue, booming economy, high living standards, everyone in the in-group loves one another in these states of euphoric frenzy, letting the good times roll. Imperium of Man least of all is Fascism.

But it's all there because the Imperium of man is an encapsulation of every Grand Idea and Utopian idea and Empire that man has ever done.

It's just Mankind. It's mankind doing mankind things of having empires.

40k is the story of the ultimate encapulsation of Mankind, The Emperor, who lived since neolithic age and was in every palace and court, doing the ultimate progressive utopian notion in the biggest Empire, and it leading to the ultimate punishment of being strapped in a torture chair of his own making and facing hell itself.
Nazis and Fascism that's the Chaos Marines and Traitors, the glitches in the system of what you don't know is what gets you killed; everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

But then T'au came along and T'au and very in-your-face Fascist philosophy. Because Fascism, with any meaning to the word, is a philosophy, not a checklist. Simply READ BOOKS and you will understand philosophy.

Wait so democratie and republic are fascisme ideologie and end goal??

[tyke]

Kanjejou の投稿を引用：

tyke の投稿を引用：

Imperium is simply an Empire.

Sci-fi before 40k was very poliitcal and the post-ww2, and pre-ww2 20th century world, was hand-in-hand with the utpoianism of Sci-Fi.

40k is a parody of those Liberal and Communist and Utopian ideas prevelant in Sci-Fi. In 40k there's a progressive vision to fulfill a destiny and live in utopia and instead it leads to hell.

The hell it leads to isn't nothing and everything.

The Imperium of man is intentionally full of everykind of influence. Bolsheviks, Industiral Revolution Roman Empire, French Revolution, U.S.A, WW2, WW1, there isn't much to do with Fascism or Nazim, except the Space Marines very Nazi SS, especially originally Space Marines in the artwork it's all SS poster boys and they have all these SS runes.

Imperium of Man is really everything except Fascism and Nazism naturally so as Chaos Marines are the Nazis and Fascists who gain too much power and go renegade and who betrayed the Grand Utopian Liberal project. Particulalry Nazism, the whole Nazi philosophy was about embracing irrationality of man.
Anyone who looks at the Imperium and thinks of Nazism or Fascism is completely historically illiterate, it borders or wondering if their history is so bad that they're confusing Soviet Union for Germany or something. Nazism and Fascism was the story of people HAVING IT SO GOOD that they go crazy, completely power-tripping, in-fashion, vogue, booming economy, high living standards, everyone in the in-group loves one another in these states of euphoric frenzy, letting the good times roll. Imperium of Man least of all is Fascism.

But it's all there because the Imperium of man is an encapsulation of every Grand Idea and Utopian idea and Empire that man has ever done.

It's just Mankind. It's mankind doing mankind things of having empires.

40k is the story of the ultimate encapulsation of Mankind, The Emperor, who lived since neolithic age and was in every palace and court, doing the ultimate progressive utopian notion in the biggest Empire, and it leading to the ultimate punishment of being strapped in a torture chair of his own making and facing hell itself.
Nazis and Fascism that's the Chaos Marines and Traitors, the glitches in the system of what you don't know is what gets you killed; everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

But then T'au came along and T'au and very in-your-face Fascist philosophy. Because Fascism, with any meaning to the word, is a philosophy, not a checklist. Simply READ BOOKS and you will understand philosophy.

Wait so democratie and republic are fascisme ideologie and end goal??

That was not the end goal. 40k is a story where it was supposed to be achieving mankind's ultimate destiny to rule the stars, which really is not a thing of Liberalism but 40k is a story of the actual core Communist philosophy of that the Utopia is INEVITABLE, it is man's ultimate manifest destiny and CANNOT BE STOPPED, and through Reason and Rationality and Revolution it will advance to this. Utopia across a sea of blood. Broadly that's the Sci-Fi notions 40k is in context of.

A big part of Sci-Fi 40k is obviously particularly parodying is Asimov's Foundation which is about a mathematician calculating there will be a downturn in a Space Empire for 10,000 years but that it can be mitigated, and this is Progressive notion in response to Reactionary ideas of cyclic view of history.

In 40k you have The Emperor, who really is quite an allegorical character of progressivism itself of the vision of being able to achieve utopia, and he has his own plan to bring about utopia and that now it is time and he has everything figured out, but the very thing named 'CHAOS', the thing you can't calculate for, is his downfall.

The empire was a secular atheist Progressive crusade to UNITE MANKIND under REASON and SECULARISM.

And the story of 40k is what??? What it does it lead to? Hell itself.

Not only that but these space demons are fuelled by this ambition to bring about this great utopian united mankind so it's self-defeating.

[Psychedelic Adventurer]

Imagining actually thinking that the dumpster fire that is the train wreck that represents the star wars lore, actually holds a candle to 40k lore.

Also, 2 clown awards, 7 pages of comments. Now that's a ratio if ever i saw one..

[Shahbaz]

mayrc の投稿を引用：

Honestly to understand the empire and why things are like they are you need to read the whole Horus Heresy series. There you learn all the "why". In fact you start by learning that Chaos is NOT EVIL. Its only a different viewpoint. And one that isnt totaly wrong.

Also you learn why the empire is such an horrible authocratic pile of ♥♥♥♥. And you learn why The ultrasmurfs and their primarch are responsible for most of the bad things.

''Chaos is not evil''

> every single daemon world every
> every single world to ever fall to chaos powers

Mate that is cringe.

[Beatbeat Goodbeat]

Kanjejou の投稿を引用：

tyke の投稿を引用：

Imperium is simply an Empire.

Sci-fi before 40k was very poliitcal and the post-ww2, and pre-ww2 20th century world, was hand-in-hand with the utpoianism of Sci-Fi.

40k is a parody of those Liberal and Communist and Utopian ideas prevelant in Sci-Fi. In 40k there's a progressive vision to fulfill a destiny and live in utopia and instead it leads to hell.

The hell it leads to isn't nothing and everything.

The Imperium of man is intentionally full of everykind of influence. Bolsheviks, Industiral Revolution Roman Empire, French Revolution, U.S.A, WW2, WW1, there isn't much to do with Fascism or Nazim, except the Space Marines very Nazi SS, especially originally Space Marines in the artwork it's all SS poster boys and they have all these SS runes.

Imperium of Man is really everything except Fascism and Nazism naturally so as Chaos Marines are the Nazis and Fascists who gain too much power and go renegade and who betrayed the Grand Utopian Liberal project. Particulalry Nazism, the whole Nazi philosophy was about embracing irrationality of man.
Anyone who looks at the Imperium and thinks of Nazism or Fascism is completely historically illiterate, it borders or wondering if their history is so bad that they're confusing Soviet Union for Germany or something. Nazism and Fascism was the story of people HAVING IT SO GOOD that they go crazy, completely power-tripping, in-fashion, vogue, booming economy, high living standards, everyone in the in-group loves one another in these states of euphoric frenzy, letting the good times roll. Imperium of Man least of all is Fascism.

But it's all there because the Imperium of man is an encapsulation of every Grand Idea and Utopian idea and Empire that man has ever done.

It's just Mankind. It's mankind doing mankind things of having empires.

40k is the story of the ultimate encapulsation of Mankind, The Emperor, who lived since neolithic age and was in every palace and court, doing the ultimate progressive utopian notion in the biggest Empire, and it leading to the ultimate punishment of being strapped in a torture chair of his own making and facing hell itself.
Nazis and Fascism that's the Chaos Marines and Traitors, the glitches in the system of what you don't know is what gets you killed; everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.

But then T'au came along and T'au and very in-your-face Fascist philosophy. Because Fascism, with any meaning to the word, is a philosophy, not a checklist. Simply READ BOOKS and you will understand philosophy.

Wait so democratie and republic are fascisme ideologie and end goal??

I don't want to put words in that posters mouth but Geovoni Gentile, the philosopher and inventor of fascism, did say that fascism is democracy in its ultimate form.

Quote
"The Fascist State, on the other hand, is a popular state, and, in that sense, a democratic State par excellence."

Reference: Gentile, Origins and Doctrine of Fascism, p28.

So the creator seem to think so.

[Who trains thy hands for war?]

Imperium is the among the best scifi there is. And unique in its outlook

[Dr. Merkwürdiglieben]

Jimmi Stixx の投稿を引用：

I think the Imperium was modeled after the German Empire 1871–1888. If that takes some of the Nazi stink off them but they are still evil. Just like The Empire in Star Wars. The Empire who would get their asses handed to them by maybe a Company of armored space Mary Sues? Star Wars is for children. Really all you need is some teenagers and a tribe of teddy bears.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Empire

Agreed. Greetings from Germania.

[tyke]

Kanjejou の投稿を引用：

Wait so democratie and republic are fascisme ideologie and end goal??

Oh or do you mean T'au's end goal is democracy/republic? So you're asking me if T'au is like Fascism then is Fasicsm about democracy/republic? Essentially yes because Fascism is anti-utopian. Fascism doesn't believe we can go beyond such things, instead such things need to be mediated. Fascism largely looked to Sorrel's syndicalism and worker democratic control of factories and so on. Fascism is a very Eastern kind of thinking and it's simlar ot Confuscianism etc, which T'au also are similarly, and today's China is a factory in a globalised world but there's parts within the entity we call China which on/off to degrees is playing with the same thought Fascism is inspired by.

In very short Hegel created dialectic of that history is unfolding to an end point.
Marx materialised the dialectic where the unfolding of history is the evolving state of economy.
Gentile, who is the philosopher of fascism, wrote about how that it's a fallacy to imagine there is an end point as the dialectic only resides through our thought and so it's always perpetuating in one way or another.

Therefore, in Fascist philosophy, to imagine you can destroy the other side of the dialectic and bring about some utopia is fallacious thinking.

That's where you get what Fascism is all about. Because Communism believes that you must destroy the enemy and that it's inevitable that the enemy (Liberalism) will be destroyed and their purpose is to be destroyed. Liberalism in response is to destroy Communism.
Fascism is that both sides trying to destroy one another are committing a fallacy in thought as there is no end point of dialectic where mankind becomes god etc, there is no absoluteness of certain rights of the merchant classes as the other side of dialectic inevitably exists.

Therefore Fascism says you need all of these things: Liberalism, Communism, Democracy, Republicanism etc all together and Fascism says it has the real thing. Communism without historical dialectical materialism, Democracy instead of psephocracy of rule of merchant classes. Because, according to Fascism, the others aren't actual liberals who are actually interested in the liberty of the individual and merchants getting secure options on the future, and aren't actually communists who cares about the working man and so on, instead they're simply revolutionary criminals who want to oppress and kill the other side of the dialectic. Technically Fascism didn't even properly entertain other people as "Liberals" and "Communists", if you were a revolutionary you were simply "ANTI-FASCIST" (originally it's a Fascist term, the Italian secret police were called OVRA for Organization for 'Vigilence and Repression of Anti-Fascism' or whatever because to them some people call themselves a "Communists" but they only want to kill Liberals and some people call themselves a "Liberal" but they only want to kill Communists.

One can start talking about how that in a way, it can be perceived, that post-ww2 we live in a kind of 'Fascist' society, not intentionally or consciously but that in practise it's how things inevitably end up to an extent.

When people try to ascribe all sorts of weird things to Fascism, instead of just reading a book, it's absurd because the things they're talking about not only can be applied to almost any and every power in history but moreso most of the things they're talking about are matters of cultural interpretation.
But what they really should pinch themselves for is what on earth do these people think that other societies around the time of Fascism were like??? They describe the people who defeated Nazism. Who beleived in White Nationalism, White Supremacy, who had race segregated militaries, euthanised and imprisoned homosexuals and mentally ill people. Anthropologists from France and America and Britain actually held conferences denouncing Nazis for Nazi anthropology being against the white race etc. Nazism was just an assortment of the most absurd BS. Chaos Marines are very much Nazis. But Nazi philosophy is quite different to Fascism, Nazi philosophy was heavily influenced by the sort of thinking spread by Freud and utilised it and actually put it to practise in manipulating German public.

Imperium of Man is just a reflection of every empire of man through history. It's primarily French Revolution and Soviet Union and Roman Empire and Industrial revolution.

The Empire of Imperium is very Roman Empire of this large grotesque bulldozing snowballing Empire uniting disparate peoples over unimaginable territory of almost entire known world held together with legions and facing down barbarians at the borders.

The world of 40k living in Imperium of Man is very much 19th century industrial revolution. Gruel, poverty, workmasters, misery, living amongst giant machines.

The 'Theocratic' atheist secularism of 40k resulting in the sort of pseudo religious idolatrous brutal murdering regime is of course very much French Revolution. Of you join the New World or you die and brutal massacres of those who won't join the Enlightened brave new world and it all being done inheriting religious systems and a backdrop of gothic architecture.

But the story of the Imperium of Man is very much Bolsheviks of ascending to the stars and ruling over machines but instead ending up trapped within a crushing machine.

But it's everything. You even see some unit insignias in Imperial Guard from back in day taken straight from French WW1 forces.

[Dr. Merkwürdiglieben]

tyke の投稿を引用：

Kanjejou の投稿を引用：

WALL OF TEXT

Dude, there is an ART in writing:

a) get to the point

b) editing

I'm not going to read that, no matter how wise it may be, because it hurts my eyes.

And I read alot of books....

[Beatbeat Goodbeat]

psi2007 の投稿を引用：

tyke の投稿を引用：

Dude, there is an ART in in writing:

a) get to the point

b) editing

I'm not going to read that, no matter how wise it may be, because it hurts my eyes.

And I read alot of books....

Tldr; he agrees with me (I think)

[All Thriller No Philler]

Don't feed the trolls, boys.

[Dr. Merkwürdiglieben]

tyke の投稿を引用：

....philosophical wall of text ...

So, I got through your "works" and I'm not going to address points, but seriously.
This is a steam gaming forum.

You should really migrate to a political/philosophical one.
Nobody here is going to get what you said.
98% of those guy don't know who Hegel even is...

Don't waste your time.
I just mean well. :D

[Dr. Merkwürdiglieben]

All Thriller, No Philler の投稿を引用：

Don't feed the trolls, boys.

I don't think he's a troll...

[tyke]

psi2007 の投稿を引用：

Dude, there is an ART in writing:

a) get to the point

b) editing

I'm not going to read that, no matter how wise it may be, because it hurts my eyes.

And I read alot of books....

i'm not redrafting when i'm intoxciated ♥♥♥♥ posting on steam, you're going to get stream of consciousness.

the real thing is that people should understand the world before the 1980s.

We had a GOLDEN AGE of Sci-Fi, the world was booming and there was all these inspiring ideas of travelling to the stars and creating this amazing new world, and Sci-Fi writing reflected it, which it has always done before WW2 aswell. Sci-Fi has always been a vehicle for mostly very utopian liberal or communist thought, and then you have some reactionaries join in such as dune is quite reactionary.

Post-WW2 you had both Soviet Union and U.S.A do their own respectively communist utopian sci-fi and liberal utopian sci-fi.

40k comes along, along with a whole new era of dystopian stuff, horror, zombies, horror movies, Gen X, cynicism etc, and it takes all these typical sort of stories from sci-fi of a golden utopian new world of man ascending to the stars and makes it into a reactionary story of it leading to HELL ITSELF.
Similalry to an extent as Soviet Union was declining you also had cultural cynicism develop there, such as Strugatsky Brother's isn't so different if you think about it (STALKER).

And really this cynicism has had cultural dominance for about 40 years now. For 40 years we've lived under the tyrannical cynicism of Gen X.

The Emperor started as a farmer, lived in every empire, was always there behind the scenes, collecting KNOWELDGE and REASON and he had the ULTIMATE DREAM to CAPTURE THE ULTIMATE MOMENT for mankind to ascend to the stars and achieve our true destiny to BE LIKE GODS, it's very much the messianiac core of communism though it's more a story structure from the liberal utopian sci-fi, but it leads to hell itself. It's a very ugly story.

The Emperor is the ultimate man who had the ultimate dream and 40k takes someone who dares to dream and puts them in an eternal torture chair of their own making.

I'm not a fan of Game of Thrones or American TV but I saw this video with the writer of game of thrones talking about this stuff recently around 9 minutes in
https://youtu.be/QgCxVdsQH_k?t=540

[Dr. Merkwürdiglieben]

tyke の投稿を引用：

psi2007 の投稿を引用：

.

i'm not redrafting when i'm intoxciated ♥♥♥♥ posting on steam, you're going to get stream of consciousness.

the real thing is that people should understand the world before the 1980s.

We had a GOLDEN AGE of Sci-Fi, the world was booming and there was all these inspiring ideas of travelling to the stars and creating this amazing new world, and Sci-Fi writing reflected it, which it has always done before WW2 aswell. Sci-Fi has always been a vehicle for mostly very utopian liberal or communist thought, and then you have some reactionaries join in such as dune is quite reactionary.

Post-WW2 you had both Soviet Union and U.S.A do their own respectively communist utopian sci-fi and liberal utopian sci-fi.

40k comes along, along with a whole new era of dystopian stuff, horror, zombies, horror movies, Gen X, cynicism etc, and it takes all these typical sort of stories from sci-fi of a golden utopian new world of man ascending to the stars.
Similalry to an extent as Soviet Union was declining you also had cultural cynicism develop there, such as Strugatsky Brother's isn't so different if you think about it (STALKER).

And really this cynicism has had cultural dominance for about 40 years now. For 40 years we've lived under the tyrannical cynicism of Gen X.

The Emperor started as a farmer, lived in every empire, was always there behind the scenes, collecting KNOWELDGE and REASON and he had the ULTIMATE DREAM to CAPTURE THE ULTIMATE MOMENT for mankind to ascend to the stars and achieve our true destiny to BE LIKE GODS, it's very much the messianiac core of communism though it's more a story structure from the liberal utopian sci-fi, but it leads to hell itself. It's a very ugly story.

The Emperor is the ultimate man who had the ultimate dream and 40k takes someone who dares to dream and puts them in an eternal torture chair of their own making.

I totally get it. But this just not the right place.

Basically next to nobody knows about hard SciFi anymore.
To be honest, it was always a small group anyways....

I'm just saying that you are wasting your time to try to explain anything to most of the people here, because

a) they just don't care, because they don't understand.

b) they are shallow people, which isn't their fault. Society made them that way.