The Imperium is lame and same goes for everyone that likes them unironically

[Derpro]

Why do we have to play as them, again?

[Derpro]

Цитата допису Formous:

Never said a myth, but your qualifiers are incomplete.

I think finding a form of government that has ever been fascistic is like finding a unicorn or bigfoot IRL. Fascistic forms of government are just stories to scare little kids, even in fiction.

[Benny]

Цитата допису Jimmi Stixx:

Цитата допису Formous:

They can't determine anything as anything other then facist. The depth some fans understand politics is nearly non existent.

"Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism"
"Disdain for the importance of human rights"
"Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause"
"The supremacy of the military/avid militarism"
"Rampant sexism"
"A controlled mass media"
"Obsession with national security"
"Religion and ruling elite tied together"
"Power of corporations protected"
"Power of labor suppressed or eliminated"
"Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts"
"Obsession with crime and punishment"
"Rampant cronyism and corruption"
"Fraudulent elections"

How many does The Imperium check off the list?

Wow, apart from the mass media, and elections it seems almost every single medieval king/ruler was a fascist.

According to your logic we have been ruled by fascists for the last 3000 years then. The Imperium of 40k is feudal and authoritarian. Fascism was a very specific ideology from Italy in the early 1900. It is not a umbrella term that can be applied to everything authoritarian.

[Derpro]

Цитата допису Benny:

Цитата допису Jimmi Stixx:

"Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism"
"Disdain for the importance of human rights"
"Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause"
"The supremacy of the military/avid militarism"
"Rampant sexism"
"A controlled mass media"
"Obsession with national security"
"Religion and ruling elite tied together"
"Power of corporations protected"
"Power of labor suppressed or eliminated"
"Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts"
"Obsession with crime and punishment"
"Rampant cronyism and corruption"
"Fraudulent elections"

How many does The Imperium check off the list?

Wow, apart from the mass media, and elections it seems almost every single medieval king/ruler was a fascist.

According to your logic we have been ruled by facists for the last 3000 years then. The Imperium of 40k is feudal and authoritarian. Facism was a very specific ideology from Italy in the early 1900. It is not a umbrella term that can be applied to everything authoritarian.

Monarchy can be a fascistic form of government, depending on other factors, just like theocracy can be slanted towards being more liberal or being more fascistic. It's usually a combination of factors and a mix of elements that may or may not be from a certain ideology, but with being slanted mostly in a certain direction of governance overall.

[Formous]

Fuedal and Authoritarian is a certainly far more apt description. It's also far more flexible on a galactic scale. Facism requires top to bottom controls, which the Imperium can not and does not enforce. Fuedal as a government form via the Imperial Tithe is a lot more functional, drawing resources for the grander efforts, which i may add, are often spent saving worlds. Authoritarian because it does not allow worlds to do certain things, such as rebel, or allow Cults to form. Often because those things tend to result in the deaths of trillions.

[Battle Brotier]

Цитата допису Derpro:

Цитата допису psi2007:

YOU can't F'U'C'K'ING talk about logic here. You ignored every argument so far.

It's my thread, I'll talk about what I want. There isn't logic to your 'arguments', because there isn't anything to argue about. I simply find the Imperium lame, nothing more and nothing less.

You say "lame" and complain about a lack of depth when it's staring you right in the damn face. You insist on your moronic stance despite all the evidence right in front of you that you refuse to acknowledge. This thread has already been answered: we play as the Imperium because that's what was decided by the developers. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why complain about it here when there's other games where you can play as something else? You gonna whine on a Madden game why you don't play as a team in the NBA? This is why I called you disingenuous. You're being intentionally obtuse.

[Beatbeat Goodbeat]

Цитата допису Derpro:

Цитата допису Beatbeat Goodbeat:

Luv me Empera.
Luv me Primark.
Luv me Chapta.
'ate traitors.
'ate Orks (not racist, just don't like 'em)
'ate heretics.
Simple as.

I find the brawler ogryn the most overrated of those voices. Bully is clearly the superior pick, while Brawler is just an dumb big guy without any charm.

My Ogryn is bully as well.

[Benny]

Цитата допису Formous:

Fuedal and Authoritarian is a certainly far more apt description. It's also far more flexible on a galactic scale. Facism requires top to bottom controls, which the Imperium can not and does not enforce. Fuedal as a government form via the Imperial Tithe is a lot more functional, drawing resources for the grander efforts, which i may add, are often spent saving worlds. Authoritarian because it does not allow worlds to do certain things, such as rebel, or allow Cults to form. Often because those things tend to result in the deaths of trillions.

Indeed, the high lords don´t give a ♥♥♥♥ about what a planetary governor does as long as the tithes are paid and his actions does not affect the wider imperial interests. Even civil wars etc are tolerated, like the badab secession. Imagine having to rule a million+ worlds.

It is absolutely feudal.

[Dr. Merkwürdiglieben]

Цитата допису Derpro:

Цитата допису psi2007:

YOU can't F'U'C'K'ING talk about logic here. You ignored every argument so far.

It's my thread, I'll talk about what I want. There isn't logic to your 'arguments', because there isn't anything to argue about. I simply find the Imperium lame, nothing more and nothing less.

You prick didn't even argue, you just repeat your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and don't even reply to arguments at all.

Here I'll continue to shove this down your throat until you F*U*C*K*I*N*G start to argue or this thread get finally locked...

Цитата допису psi2007:

I was a Star wars Fan all my youth.
I know that.
Still over all it pretty much the tale of the hero(s) vs. the bad guy(s),
which is, after a (long) while, a bit boring.

That's why I switched to Star Trek later.
Nobody is "evil", nobody is just "good". Everybody has reason.

40K on the other side: EVERBODY is an utter ARSEHOLE.
That's the point. That makes it fun. The "no hope" thing is the point.

Regarding your point that the Impirium is "fascist".
That really depends on the definition of fascism in use.
Mussolini defined fascism as:
“All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”
In that definition, maybe, BUT the Impirium of Men is more like a federation.

There is a binding ideology, the imperial creed,
which is a mixture between state religion, imperial demands
(the Tithe, more here: https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Tithe_Grade)
and policing, to ensure loyaltiy to the Imperium at large
(Adeptus Arbites & Inquisition).
Aside from that, planets, system or entire sectors are operating independent.

A poltical system on an imperial world could basically be everything.
A democracy theocracy, an autocratic oligarchy, a tribal communist society
or hippie sing-along fascism.
The only thing the Imperium cares about are:

- do the pay the Tithe?
- are they loyal to the Imperium?

And that's it.

The only worlds, where democracy flys right out of the window by default, are Forge Worlds, because those are controlled by the Adeptus Mechanicus and those guys don't know how to spell democracy....
Everywhere else it's just a dice roll i.e. what the writer thought would be cool.

Unfortunatly we never see really nice, democratic imperial worlds, because that wouldn't be "grimdark" and therfor "boring", but that doesn't mean they don't/couldn't exist.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text...

EDIT2:
ALSO, the Imperium can't be nationalist, because
1.
There are no other human nations anymore since 30K, as far as we know.

2.
All the planets COULD be seen as nations inside the federation, which is the Imperium.
So it's actually rather "international"....

[Derpro]

Цитата допису Formous:

Fuedal and Authoritarian is a certainly far more apt description. It's also far more flexible on a galactic scale. Facism requires top to bottom controls, which the Imperium can not and does not enforce. Fuedal as a government form via the Imperial Tithe is a lot more functional, drawing resources for the grander efforts, which i may add, are often spent saving worlds. Authoritarian because it does not allow worlds to do certain things, such as rebel, or allow Cults to form. Often because those things tend to result in the deaths of trillions.

I would say it's feudal and fascistic, due to the totalitarianism that is enforced on each planet with their strict adherence to a certain religion and heavy suppression of any form of dissent. They even have a planned economy with the justification being for total war. This could also also sound like socialism, but due to the strong religious element, nationalism and opposition to egalitarianism I would say the Imperium is more slanted towards being a fascistic theocracy with feudal elements due to its massive size.

[Beatbeat Goodbeat]

Цитата допису Benny:

Цитата допису Jimmi Stixx:

"Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism"
"Disdain for the importance of human rights"
"Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause"
"The supremacy of the military/avid militarism"
"Rampant sexism"
"A controlled mass media"
"Obsession with national security"
"Religion and ruling elite tied together"
"Power of corporations protected"
"Power of labor suppressed or eliminated"
"Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts"
"Obsession with crime and punishment"
"Rampant cronyism and corruption"
"Fraudulent elections"

How many does The Imperium check off the list?

Wow, apart from the mass media, and elections it seems almost every single medieval king/ruler was a fascist.

According to your logic we have been ruled by fascists for the last 3000 years then. The Imperium of 40k is feudal and authoritarian. Fascism was a very specific ideology from Italy in the early 1900. It is not a umbrella term that can be applied to everything authoritarian.

When I think of space theocracy and magical living gods, my almonds activate and I see the clear connection to 1920s Italian trade union syndicalism.

Really the only connection is the black uniforms and skulls on them. Sadly, italians didn't wear that stuff. But the National Socialists, but whatever close enough.

[Alex]

Цитата допису psi2007:

Цитата допису Alex:

Everyone is human. With the exception of chaos hounds and maybe that huge fat thing, which was probably a human (or more) once, they are all human. Zombies, rangers, shotgunners, everyone is human.

I'm not human. I'm a plant from planet 9. Let's grow together! Mep Mep!

In 40k I could set you on fire for saying that.

[Beatbeat Goodbeat]

Цитата допису Derpro:

Цитата допису Formous:

Fuedal and Authoritarian is a certainly far more apt description. It's also far more flexible on a galactic scale. Facism requires top to bottom controls, which the Imperium can not and does not enforce. Fuedal as a government form via the Imperial Tithe is a lot more functional, drawing resources for the grander efforts, which i may add, are often spent saving worlds. Authoritarian because it does not allow worlds to do certain things, such as rebel, or allow Cults to form. Often because those things tend to result in the deaths of trillions.

I would say it's feudal and fascistic, due to the totalitarianism that is enforced on each planet with their strict adherence to a certain religion and heavy suppression of any form of dissent. They even have a planned economy with the justification being for total war. This could also also sound like socialism, but due to the strong religious element, nationalism and opposition to egalitarianism I would say the Imperium is more slanted towards being a fascistic theocracy with feudal elements due to its massive size.

That is like saying Orks are fascist anarchists.

[Derpro]

Цитата допису psi2007:

Цитата допису Derpro:

It's my thread, I'll talk about what I want. There isn't logic to your 'arguments', because there isn't anything to argue about. I simply find the Imperium lame, nothing more and nothing less.

You prick didn't even argue, you just repeat your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and don't even reply to arguments at all.

Here I'll continue to shove this down your throat until you F*U*C*K*I*N*G start to argue or thread this get finally locked...

Цитата допису psi2007:

I was a Star wars Fan all my youth.
I know that.
Still over all it pretty much the tale of the hero(s) vs. the bad guy(s),
which is, after a (long) while, a bit boring.

That's why I switched to Star Trek later.
Nobody is "evil", nobody is just "good". Everybody has reason.

40K on the other side: EVERBODY is an utter ARSEHOLE.
That's the point. That makes it fun. The "no hope" thing is the point.

Regarding your point that the Impirium is "fascist".
That really depends on the definition of fascism in use.
Mussolini defined fascism as:
“All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”
In that definition, maybe, BUT the Impirium of Men is more like a federation.

There is a binding ideology, the imperial creed,
which is a mixture between state religion, imperial demands
(the Tithe, more here: https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Tithe_Grade)
and policing, to ensure loyaltiy to the Imperium at large
(Adeptus Arbites & Inquisition).
Aside from that, planets, system or entire sectors are operating independent.

A poltical system on an imperial world could basically be everything.
A democracy theocracy, an autocratic oligarchy, a tribal communist society
or hippie sing-along fascism.
The only thing the Imperium cares about are:

- do the pay the Tithe?
- are they loyal to the Imperium?

And that's it.

The only worlds, where democracy flys right out of the window by default, are Forge Worlds, because those are controlled by the Adeptus Mechanicus and those guys don't know how to spell democracy....
Everywhere else it's just a dice roll i.e. what the writer thought would be cool.

Unfortunatly we never see really nice, democratic imperial worlds, because that wouldn't be "grimdark" and therfor "boring", but that doesn't mean they don't/couldn't exist.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text...

EDIT2:
ALSO, the Imperium can't be nationalist, because
1.
There are no other human nations anymore since 30K, as far as we know.

2.
All the planets COULD be seen as nations inside the federation, which is the Imperium.
So it's actually rather "international"....

TL;DR, that's probably why I didn't respond to this in the first place.

I think the Imperium is fascistic for reasons I have already stated. Don't really care if you don't like that your precious Imperium has a fascistic form of government, I'm not judging it as immoral as it's fictional and I'm apolitical anyways.

[Derpro]

Цитата допису Beatbeat Goodbeat:

Цитата допису Derpro:

I would say it's feudal and fascistic, due to the totalitarianism that is enforced on each planet with their strict adherence to a certain religion and heavy suppression of any form of dissent. They even have a planned economy with the justification being for total war. This could also also sound like socialism, but due to the strong religious element, nationalism and opposition to egalitarianism I would say the Imperium is more slanted towards being a fascistic theocracy with feudal elements due to its massive size.

That is like saying Orks are fascist anarchists.

Sure buddy LOL

[Beatbeat Goodbeat]

Цитата допису Derpro:

Цитата допису psi2007:

You prick didn't even argue, you just repeat your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and don't even reply to arguments at all.

Here I'll continue to shove this down your throat until you F*U*C*K*I*N*G start to argue or thread this get finally locked...

TL:DR, that's probably why I didn't respond to this in the first place.

I think the Imperium is fascistic for reasons I have already stated. Don't really care if you don't like that your precious Imperium has a fascistic form of government, I'm not judging it as immoral as it's fictional and I'm apolitical anyways.

You're wrong and that's OK.