Having a chaos space marine boss fight isn't exactly off the table imo

[PwnyHipster]

If we can fight a Beast of Nurgle, plague ogryn (regular ogryns are bigger and stronger than regular space marines, they're just slower, less skilled, have way worse aim, and have way worse equipment, and training. Ogryns are even stronger and tougher than Primaris Space Marines.), and a karkin' DAEMONHOST!

I'd say its realistic that we can take on a single chaos space marine. The hardest part would be getting through the power armor with weapons that aren't a Bolter, Plasmagun, Flamer, Power Weapon, Thunder Hammer, Force Weapon, and Psychic powers.

Edit: Here is a lore description of an Ogryn Bodyguard killing 2 Chaos Space Marines in Terminator Armor single handedly.

"Clattering gunfire erupted from weaponry as the figures stamped heavily through the rubble. They were huge individuals, their armour plate thick and nigh on impervious to harm: Terminators, the enemy’s elite.

Havorn banged on the top of the Chimera.

Havorn’s ogryn bodyguard emerged from the confines of the Chimera and breathed deeply, its eyes narrowing. It stepped protectively in front of the brigadier-general, shielding him from fire with its muscled bulk.

“Go!” he shouted. “Intercept them!'

With that, the Elysian commander pointed the way and the ogryn began loping towards the enemy

The ogryn raised its heavy ripper gun, a thick finger pulling the trigger. Empty shells scattered in its wake. It did not roar or bellow as it charged. Such base, animalistic behaviours had been erased from its simple brainpan, but no amount of augmetics could improve the aim of the ogryn and the bullets from its ripper gun sprayed the area, hitting nothing.

Bolter fire raked towards him, striking the hulking abhuman, who grimaced in pain. Chunks of flesh were torn from its arms and chest, but the three metre creature that dwarfed even the Terminators did not slow. It lowered a shoulder and smashed into one of the enemy, knocking it from its feet. Raising the butt of its heavy ripper gun, the ogryn began caving in the helmet of the fallen warrior, smashing it down onto the prone traitor again and again.



The ogryn roared as it planted its heavy feet and empty shells streamed from its ripper gun as it fired the weapon wildly. The Chimera behind them rotated its turret and multi-laser fire peppered the traitors, cutting several of them down. Only six Chaos Marines reached the brigadier-general’s command group, but it was enough.

This was the end, he thought. An ignominious end to his thirty-seven years within the Imperial Guard, hacked apart by brutal warriors behind his battle lines.

He saw the loyal ogryn fall to the ground with a bestial roar. He wasn’t a sentimental man by any stretch, but he felt pain as his faithful bodyguard fell to the ground, coughing blood from his lungs.

Havorn fired his pistol again and again, and felt the rising pain beneath his hand as the pistol overheated, venting super-heated air. With a snarl, he hurled it to the ground and drew his long bladed combat knife. It had been more than twenty years since it had tasted blood, back in the days when he was a captain of the storm troopers.

Only two of the enemy remained standing and they stalked towards him, wordlessly stepping away from each other to take him from both sides.

Havorn kept his eyes on the foe so as not to attract their attention to the massive form of the ogryn picking itself up behind them, blood running from the wounds on its arms and chest, and spilling from its mouth.

With a roar, the ogryn picked up one of the traitors, one massive hand upon the enemy’s backpack and the other between his legs. It lifted the Chaos Marine high into the air and slammed it head first into the ground, cracking its neck.

The second traitor turned with a snarl and swung its icon two handed into the ogryn’s legs, driving it to its knees. Releasing his grip on the haft of the hateful symbol of Chaos, the Chaos Marine leapt at the ogryn, its long talons extended for the killing blow.

Havorn cried out and surged forwards, but he was too slow and he saw the bodyguard fall, its throat ripped completely out, blood spurting from the fatal wound.

He drove his combat knife through a crack in the traitor’s ceramite back plate, the blade sinking deep. Blood spurted from the wound, burning through Havorn’s leather glove, and the enemy spun, his fist smashing into the brigadier-general’s cheek, shattering the bone.

Pain exploded in his head and he fell back from the force of the blow. He saw the ogryn’s large, mournful eyes as it tried desperately to aid its master before the Chaos Marine reached down and broke its neck with a brutal twist."

[Dio]

Nguyên văn bởi H.honor:

I want more factions like Tau or something

Tau is probably the least likely we would fight against unless DLCs take place on different planets, unfortunately. Fighting Kroots would be cool though, or even a Kroot character.

[Daliena]

Nguyên văn bởi High Lord Denix:

Nguyên văn bởi PoniBeatnik:

Exactly this. Plague Ogryns are tougher than Plague Marines. This is objective fact.

No its not, going off the TTRPG a Plague Ogryn has 32 wounds, a Plague marine has 36 wounds, the Plague marine also has 5 more toughness bonus than the Ogryn and the marine obviously has power armor for an additional 8 armor over the Ogryns 2, please dont speak if you dont know what you're on about.

Not according to the 2014 Tome of Decay, if I'm not mistaken here.

Plague Ogryn - 32 wounds, TB 10, 2 armor.

Plague Marine, 18 + 1d5 wounds, and a +10 to their toughness (which is to say, +1 TB over whatever they roll for their stats otherwise). Stats which, as I recall, run on a scale of 1-100, except you generally can't just get a 100 to start with.

[Oozy]

what would be the situation for a single CSM to be alone without proper equipment. And how would you imagine this boss battle going down? basic Bullet sponge? maybe tier'ed stages where he switches up tactics or maybe even attempts to retreat.

I know deathguard csm's are slow but they can still maneuver with finesse and can probably dodge most shots(and even if they landed he can tank an absurd number of shots before even flinching) while firing back accurately and who knows about the potential warp mutations they have. Maybe if air support was available it would be slightly doable or bringing down the entire hab block might be a safer way to eliminate that kind of target

[Dio]

Nguyên văn bởi Oozy:

what would be the situation for a single CSM to be alone without proper equipment. And how would you imagine this boss battle going down? basic Bullet sponge? maybe tier'ed stages where he switches up tactics or maybe even attempts to retreat.

I know deathguard csm's are slow but they can still maneuver with finesse and can probably dodge most shots(and even if they landed he can tank an absurd number of shots before even flinching) while firing back accurately and who knows about the potential warp mutations they have. Maybe if air support was available it would be slightly doable or bringing down the entire hab block might be a safer way to eliminate that kind of target

Using the map, air support etc and making the battle a bit objective based is probably a good solution to fix any lore issues.

Getting dumped into a giant smelter or crushing him in some gian mechanism like in Terminator would be a fitting end.

[High Lord Denix]

Nguyên văn bởi Daliena:

Nguyên văn bởi High Lord Denix:

No its not, going off the TTRPG a Plague Ogryn has 32 wounds, a Plague marine has 36 wounds, the Plague marine also has 5 more toughness bonus than the Ogryn and the marine obviously has power armor for an additional 8 armor over the Ogryns 2, please dont speak if you dont know what you're on about.

Not according to the 2014 Tome of Decay, if I'm not mistaken here.

Plague Ogryn - 32 wounds, TB 10, 2 armor.

Plague Marine, 18 + 1d5 wounds, and a +10 to their toughness (which is to say, +1 TB over whatever they roll for their stats otherwise). Stats which, as I recall, run on a scale of 1-100, except you generally can't just get a 100 to start with.

Taking a player character statblock and comparing it to a NPC statblock is always going to make the PC statblock look weak, its that way for balance and fun so you have something to work towards and dont start as a god, there is a Plague Marine NPC statblock in the Deathwatch Mark of the Xenos rule book, makes much more sense to use that to compare.

[Daliena]

Nguyên văn bởi High Lord Denix:

Nguyên văn bởi Daliena:

Not according to the 2014 Tome of Decay, if I'm not mistaken here.

Plague Ogryn - 32 wounds, TB 10, 2 armor.

Plague Marine, 18 + 1d5 wounds, and a +10 to their toughness (which is to say, +1 TB over whatever they roll for their stats otherwise). Stats which, as I recall, run on a scale of 1-100, except you generally can't just get a 100 to start with.

Taking a player character statblock and comparing it to a NPC statblock is always going to make the PC statblock look weak, its that way for balance and fun so you have something to work towards and dont start as a god, there is a Plague Marine NPC statblock in the Deathwatch rule book, makes much more sense to use that to compare.

I don't have access to the Deffwotch book. Either way though, Plague Ogryns are described as being a ♥♥♥♥♥ and a half to kill in the lore, too. And as I've said elsewhere here, -we- are far sturdier than we should remotely be.

[Narky]

Given it's Dan Abnett behind the writing, it's a possibility.

Idiots like Matt Ward and McNeill(sp) grossly disproportion the abilities an Astarte is capable of. The way they write them almost totally renders the point of there being an Astra Militarum or Inquisition.

Abnett actually creates concisely believable elements to the 40k Universe. Yes, Astartes are Superhuman, but they're not the end-all-be-all fighting force. Elite Stormtroopers make mince meat of Chaos Astarte, but.... as for game standards...

A Plague Marine isn't really something to be underestimated. A Mid-tier Daemon like a Beast of Nurgle is one thing, a Daemonhost being another (which again is subjective as it depends on the Daemon within the human host - some Daemonhosts can literally tear apart Titans), but a Plague Marine is actually a very deadly element with the Intelligence to match.

It depends on the Plague Marine, and just how powerful the Psyker of the Strike Team is canonically. The Psyker's the one who makes a difference in this.

[High Lord Denix]

Nguyên văn bởi Daliena:

Nguyên văn bởi High Lord Denix:

Taking a player character statblock and comparing it to a NPC statblock is always going to make the PC statblock look weak, its that way for balance and fun so you have something to work towards and dont start as a god, there is a Plague Marine NPC statblock in the Deathwatch rule book, makes much more sense to use that to compare.

I don't have access to the Deffwotch book. Either way though, Plague Ogryns are described as being a ♥♥♥♥♥ and a half to kill in the lore, too. And as I've said elsewhere here, -we- are far sturdier than we should remotely be.

I've said elsewhere not here that yes, its already ridiculous that our characters survive what they do, we should be dying to the poxwalker hordes alone, add in everything else and you have to suspend your disbelief to be able to take the game seriously from a lore perspective, its simply that everybody has a line where they cant suspend their disbelief anymore and for a lot of people that's a Spacemarine.

[AnthraX]

Guys I found the solution fatshark adds raid maps upto 25 people join 😂

[Mr.Four]

Put aside tabletop comparisons for now. Look at the books (or watch some lore vids) for info on some of these Chaos space marines. Many are ancient veterans with crazy warp corruption.

Go have a watch of the Astartes shorts (CGI made by 1 dude and the closest representation to how space marines can be depicted in the books). Not only is it insanely good just to watch, it also shows you that space marines would wipe the floor with our characters.

[KnuckleHead]

I've read tons of 40k novels and there's zero reason lore wise why a group of 4 heroes adequately equipped and experienced (and we are) couldn't kill a single CSM. The power level being being attributed to an individual/regular space marines is completely exaggerated. If you have plasma weapons, power swords, chain swords, grenades, etc you can def kill one.

Now going up against someone like Abaddon, or anyone of the captains/elite units in decked out wargear, etc would be an absolute massacre lol.

But with what we're equipped with and what we're already fighting, completely reasonable to have a CSM as a boss or tough enemy.

I hope Fatshark changes their mind on that decision sometime down the line, that would be a cool fight.

[SolusiRadikal]

on a spesific note, if Darktide want to have Chaos Space marine fight, then it should be a normal Chaos Space Marine, not blessed one A.K.A plague marine.
Also, it is quite common for CSM to pop out of nowhere thanks to warp gate due to daemon infestation.

In order to spice things up, the rogue astartes appearance will further escalate the whole situation thus force the Inquisition (your batalion ofc) to ask a help from a faction that clearly have the expertise with "cleaning the dirt".

Sister of Battle of Adepta Sorositas and their scorched earth tactic will help the inquisitor to clean the Atoma from nurgle pox epidemic. That should be way more interesting direction for Darktide

[Moonlight Knight]

Nguyên văn bởi SolusiRadikal:

on a spesific note, if Darktide want to have Chaos Space marine fight, then it should be a normal Chaos Space Marine, not blessed one A.K.A plague marine.
Also, it is quite common for CSM to pop out of nowhere thanks to warp gate due to daemon infestation.

In order to spice things up, the rogue astartes appearance will further escalate the whole situation thus force the Inquisition (your batalion ofc) to ask a help from a faction that clearly have the expertise with "cleaning the dirt".

Sister of Battle of Adepta Sorositas and their scorched earth tactic will help the inquisitor to clean the Atoma from nurgle pox epidemic. That should be way more interesting direction for Darktide

Nevermind, I don't want a CSM bossfight anymore.

[Rigz]

Nguyên văn bởi High Lord Denix:

Nguyên văn bởi Daliena:

I don't have access to the Deffwotch book. Either way though, Plague Ogryns are described as being a ♥♥♥♥♥ and a half to kill in the lore, too. And as I've said elsewhere here, -we- are far sturdier than we should remotely be.

I've said elsewhere not here that yes, its already ridiculous that our characters survive what they do, we should be dying to the poxwalker hordes alone, add in everything else and you have to suspend your disbelief to be able to take the game seriously from a lore perspective, its simply that everybody has a line where they cant suspend their disbelief anymore and for a lot of people that's a Spacemarine.

If we are going just by the accomplishments of the convicts a lot of you all are full on underselling them while overselling spacemarines.

Veteran = besides being through multiple battles in lore is also considered an elite amongst the imperium before hand. At the end of this they can clearly be cleared as a tempest scion which is 1/10 of a space marine
Ogryn = Going from the background of this alone the ogryn has already killed a chaos space marine which is the background i chose for mine. To only further this going by penances the ogryn is stronger than ya average by far even being able to overpower multiple other ogryn and fully tackle a plague one as well.
Psyker = its a psyker ours could easily be gamma-beta level more than enough to take out a csm
Zealot = is the only iffy one but even than they have shown beyond normal abilities of just your average priest or human.

Chaos space marines / plague marines can def be added as a multi staged boss fight mission.

[Narky]

Nguyên văn bởi Mr.Four:

Put aside tabletop comparisons for now. Look at the books (or watch some lore vids) for info on some of these Chaos space marines. Many are ancient veterans with crazy warp corruption.

Go have a watch of the Astartes shorts (CGI made by 1 dude and the closest representation to how space marines can be depicted in the books). Not only is it insanely good just to watch, it also shows you that space marines would wipe the floor with our characters.

Again it comes down to the Ogryn and the Psyker.

The two Psykers in the Astartes shorts are Epsilon classification, and they almost killed the entire squad.

A Psyker with an Ogryn Bodyguard can very well kill an Astarte. Do not underestimate the two in 40k—an Ogryn can actually tank numerous Bolter rounds and still keep fighting.

There is one such story where an Ogryn fought to the bitter end and butchered around 4 Chaos Astartes in melee with his bare hands, all to protect his 'boss'. He only died when the final Chaos Marine managed to crush his skull moments following when the heavily wounded Ogryn lifted a Chaos Marine above his head and slammed him down with such force it shattered the Chaos Marine's neck and spine. This was after he was hit by numerous Boltgun rounds and was run through by Lightning Claws.

Ogryns, while mental inferiors and less speedy, are monstrous powerhouses of physicality.

Psykers it depends and ranges on their speciality and broad skills exhibited in their Pariah gene. An Epsilon-class, battle certified Psyker is dangerous.

But if you have a Psyker like Inquisitor Eisenhorn who was High Gamma, he can obliterate a Squadron of Astartes. An Alpha-class Psyker, which is extremely rare due to how frequently they go insane or fall to Chaos, can rip Titans apart on a whim. It canonically takes an entire company of Astartes to deal with an Alpha-class Psyker.

Hector Rex of the Ordo Malleus was a MONSTER of a Psyker, who was powerful enough to defeat the most powerful Bloodthirster of all time, An'ggrath, in a duel - banishing him from Vraks.

As said, our Psyker is either a Theta/Gamma or a High-Epsilon. That alone is a huge threat to a lone Chaos Marine. Reality-rending mind powers are not to be treated lightly in 40k.