Some dumb lore questions

[Vahnin Varlerian]

Since the impatience is growing I thought I might ask a thing or two I thought about during the game or afterwards.
Im interested in the lore but its too overwhelming to get into alone right now but maybe someone cares enough to answer.

First thing I noticed:
The indoctrination seems to be pretty strong. In short, emperor is all, doubt is betrayal. Knowledge is betrayal, blind loyalty is demanded. Considering the fact simple emotions form unbelievable powerful, hostile forces even if not wanted I understand the desire to limit this but can someone elaborate this further? Is that really the reason for this or is it simply the path that has been chosen for 'humankind'?

Second thought:
Why are the chaos gods only evil/aggressive based ones, is there a reason positive or even neutral ones seem to be missing?

Third one:
Ignoring the fact that its logically impossible as far as I understand, is there any potential way to compete against the chaos?
More intelligent life = more driving force for chaos gods, expansion means opposition. And I dont believe the chaos gods would ceace to exist if galactic life would reduce to 0,001% of its current population. They are here and wont disappear I presume. Should they be killed (if possible), wouldnt they just reappear since life will never stop supplying the necessary force?

[FullMetalPanic]

Alrighty here we go.

The Chaos Gods FEED on emotion. Certain emotions make certain Chaos gods stronger, it's the source of their power. The Chaos Gods aren't evil in the classical sense perse....they just are. They are sort of a force of nature if you will. They like to play "The Eternal Game" with eachother.

The Emperor when he was around did not want to be worshiped as a God. He was against faith in general. In his eyes it feeds Chaos and thus is bad. But everything went wrong because he made some serious mistakes and the 'Imperial Truth' has basically been the modus operandi after he was put on the Golden Throne. Even though it's a religion that was made by traitors. He even punished the Space Marine Legion that made it up. (see the book The Horus Heresy: The First Heretic, it's a good start)

The Chaos Gods where made manifest by the Aeldari and where set free, unshacled, when their race as good as Pepsi'd when the birth of SHE WHO THIRSTS, Slaanesh happened. The Chaos Gods where always there but they where limited in what they could do.

Some races are more present in the Warp then others. Aeldari souls shine bright while the souls of the T'au are rather dim. It all mostly depends on how psychic a race is. The Necron themselves don't really feed into the warp.

Honestly the greatest threat to the galaxy is probably the Tyranids.

[cinless]

The first thing: The imperium is a fascist, totalitarian space empire, it's a grim universe, and the imperium just makes things worse. It is itself one of the major antagonistic forces of the setting.
Stories told from a human perspective within the imperium usually involve a great deal of struggle against the mechanisms of the imperium, even when the main characters are themselves agents in its service.
In short, the extreme xenophobia and bigotry of the imperium hurts more than it helps.

The second thing: The chaos gods also embody positive emotions and ideals, such as hope, love, honour, devotion etc.
The reason there is such an overwhelming focus on the negative aspects of the gods is twofold.
1: The universe is kind of a dump, there's more negative emotions than positive because everything sucks so bad, largely because of the imperium.
2: Bad writing. Chaos is used as the saturday morning cartoon villains of the setting way too much, it's to the point where the idea of anyone falling to chaos is ridiculous. Examples of good writing for the chaos faction are exceptionally rare.

The third thing: There was in the distant past of the galaxy several civilizations capable of threatening the chaos gods themselves, most have been wiped out or are too scattered and beaten to do so now.

Edit: Also, if any chaos entity manifests in real space and is destroyed, it is returned to the immaterium. If a chaos entity is destroyed within the immaterium it is gone. Warp dust. Destroying a chaos god would leave a massive power vacuum and would have unimaginable consequences, but could potentially be done.

[FullMetalPanic]

Luetin09 makes some of the best lore videos on YT I suggest giving his vids a go. And Wolf Lord Rho on YouTube discusses bits of Black Library lore books. His vids are not that long and pretty easily digestible.

[Vahnin Varlerian]

Thanks for the juicy infos, I very much appreciate them!
Sci-Fi is really not my thing but the fanatic cult around the emperor somehow gets me.

[Stardustfire]

1. The Worship of the Emperor is something misleaded after his "death" . But Partly his not complete Death Body is still needed as the Shield against the Chaos. The Emperor still builds constantly a Shield so that Chaos Forces cant just breach the Barriers betwen the Warp in the Real Space everywhere. he also funtions as a Lighthouse for the Navigators in the Warp. Problem is to "stay alive" and still hold up this 2 Functions he permanent needs the sacrifies of ALOT of Psyskers. so total not like a Big Daemon :)

2. FullMetal got it wrong, the Chaos Gods where NOT made from the Eldar. they brought only one of the 4 great ones into existance because of there intense emotanial sense paired with the fact that even the worsed Eldar has more latent Psyionc Power than a Trained Impirial Psyker. The Eldar got there own Pantenon of Gods and all exept 2 dont survived the Birth of the mentationed Chaos God, together with most of the Eldar Population.
And that Daemons also consume Souls isnt something that anyone woud brand as neutral or even good thing. They dont feed on the Emotions, only one of the big 4 and his retainers multiply them.

3. Daemons cant stay forever in the Real Space, they need a Host or a constant Supply of Souls to stay here. Technological Humans are on the declining side since the Emperor died 1000 years ago. that was only lorebend/broken with GWs last big change to grab more money again.

[FullMetalPanic]

40K is an interesting setting. Yes it's sc-fi but at the same time the Imperium is pretty much a medieval society in a lot of ways. The Orks are rather savage but they are more kleverer then a lot of people might think. The T'au and Leagues of Votann are pretty much pure sci-fi. The Necron are sort of like the Undead but are very advanced technology wise. Etc etc.

The 40K universe is a fascinating place. There is something in it for basically everyone.

[Piderman]

The Emperor being worshipped as the one and only god actually started as a small cult way back in the great crusade. Basically, some people thought: "Well, the Emperor does so many awesome and almost unbelievable things, he HAS to be a god!"
Back then, cults like this one, and religion in general were looked down upon and even banned, as the Imperial Creed pretty much told everyone to stop this kind of crap and grow up. Needless to say, all this fell apart when the Emperor got put on the golden Throne, unable to do anything at all.

[Vahnin Varlerian]

I understand that he never intended nor tolerated to be revered as a god or alike but was there a (confirmed or most propable) reason why he was so against it?

And what is the most plausible point of origin for the emperor if there is any and its not too complex to write here?

[cinless]

Originally posted by Vahnin Varlerian:

I understand that he never intended nor tolerated to be revered as a god or alike but was there a (confirmed or most propable) reason why he was so against it?

And what is the most plausible point of origin for the emperor if there is any and its not too complex to write here?

The emperor wanted to weaken the warp by strengthening rationality, he was against all forms of worship I believe.

His origins are intentionally left vague in current lore, but it used to be that he was the product of a ritual that took place around 8,000 BCE, where a group of powerful shamans sacrificed themselves to create one powerful being to lead mankind. That's old lore though, not currently supported.

[Piderman]

Originally posted by Vahnin Varlerian:

I understand that he never intended nor tolerated to be revered as a god or alike but was there a (confirmed or most propable) reason why he was so against it?

Most likely as necessary step to unite humanity. Different Religions equal different world views and much more, not to mention what it sometimes tends to do to reason and science and such. Overall, Religion can and will create gaps bethween us all and while its a drastic measure, i can actually see the benefits of getting rid of it.

[FullMetalPanic]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

2. FullMetal got it wrong, the Chaos Gods where NOT made from the Eldar. they brought only one of the 4 great ones into existance because of there intense emotanial sense paired with the fact that even the worsed Eldar has more latent Psyionc Power than a Trained Impirial Psyker. The Eldar got there own Pantenon of Gods and all exept 2 dont survived the Birth of the mentationed Chaos God, together with most of the Eldar Population.
And that Daemons also consume Souls isnt something that anyone woud brand as neutral or even good thing. They dont feed on the Emotions, only one of the big 4 and his retainers multiply them.

The Chaos Gods have always kind of been in the Warp but they where not able to do much. The Warp used to be pretty calm and not so Chaotic. In a sense they where chained. But the Aeldari have definitely fed them and made them stronger over time because of the Aeldari's indolence and amoral hedonism. When Slaanesh was birthed the rest of the Chaos Gods where also set free from their shacles.

Never said they created them but that the Aeldari where resonsible for manifesting them in their current form. At their zenith they where definitely feeding into the warp big time because of how powerful psychers they are.

[Catteus Of Mars]

Empire does what it does to survive they are not "bad guys" just doing their best in ♥♥♥♥♥♥ situation. its not "xenophobia" if the filthy xenos ARE actually tying to kill you KEKW

[FullMetalPanic]

There are many stories about the truth behind the Emperor but EVERYTHING in 40K needs to be taken as rumor at best and pure misinformation at worst. Nothing is really set in stone.

Some believe the Emperor is the Chaos God of Order and he just doesn't want his rivals to get stronger. Belief and Faith are very emotional. Some of the newer books have suggested he is in fact a God and all that Faith in him makes him able to manifest massive power. Or maybe it's because of the massive amounts of Psychers the Imperium is sacrificing each day.

Some suggest he might be a surviving Old One. Other say the Emperor was made from some ritual by a whole bunch of Shamans. Others think the Golden Throne is keeping him trapped and from being reborn seing he is thought to be a perpetual.

[Piderman]

There is nothing like good or bad guys in 40k, thats the beauty of it.

[cinless]

Originally posted by Catteus Of Mars:

Empire does what it does to survive they are not "bad guys" just doing their best in ♥♥♥♥♥♥ situation. its not "xenophobia" if the filthy xenos ARE actually tying to kill you KEKW

Games Workshop made an explicit statement that the imperium is bad precisely because folks like you keep coming out of the woodwork to defend xenophobia.