Using melee weapons feel......cluncky(?)

[Nihil]

Dunno why but i feel the melee is way way less satisfying than in Vermintide.
Can't figure out the source of this issue but only the symptom.

- Melee swings are most of the time not responsive and instant enough
- Melee weapons don't do enough damage

Till now I found only one melee weapon which was satisfying to use.
The Combat axe. Maybe because this is till now the only melee weapon which can actually kill enemies in one hit.

But even using most of the melee weapons feel cluncky because there is a very slow reaction time to it. I want to swing my weapon, it isn't as responsive as in Vermintide. I want to switch to melee from ranged and instantly swing like in VErmintide, but nothing happens for a brief moment.

Can't decide if this is some sort of input lag, or just simply the intended mechanic behind the weight/mobility system.
Any ideas guys? Or do you feel the same? Am i the only one?


And why on earth does a Turtolsky MK VII Heavy sword (gear score 265) take 3 swings to kill the most basic trashmob on Uprising (lvl2)? Gear score 265 Purple tactical axe required around 7-8 heavy swings to the head to kill an armored melee scab (don't know the name yet) also on level 2. You should be able to chop-chop every trashmob with any melee weapon on any difficulty. Just like in VT2. That's what is so enjoyable in these tide games.

What are your thoughts?

[♦BlackJack♣]

sry but melee weapons feel incredible!
piece of brain and worms look beauty !

[Nihil]

Maybe than it is just me. Can be a subjective thing how it feels.

But the other fact that it takes 3 swings to kill the most basic enemy with a sword is something which i think is not normal.

[DLCI]

The axe is the worst weapon in the game. Melee weapons that cannot hit more than 1 target are useless.

Also the input delay in this game is incredibly high.

It is about 3 times as much as vermintide 2 was.

[Midnight]

But Vermintide also has its share of swords with high cleave but tickle damage. Those have a place as a crowd control on hordes.

Also, we lack the understanding of gear score and how it affects damage breakpoints and traits which make things that usually don't cleave well suddenly cleave well.

But yeah, high damage weapons won't usually cleave that well just like in Vermintide. Barring some special weapon exceptions like the Eviscerator which will just rev up and then chop stuff in half in a wide swath. Can't complain about satisfaction with that one.

Didn't find any delays in swinging, though the block sometimes bugs out and gets all jittery.

[Midnight]

İlk olarak DLCI tarafından gönderildi:

The axe is the worst weapon in the game. Melee weapons that cannot hit more than 1 target are useless.

Also the input delay in this game is incredibly high.

It is about 3 times as much as vermintide 2 was.

I can't say that this is the case for me.

Especially the quick downward light attack on some weapon is pretty much instant for me. To the point where I can throw it out just before the enemy hits me. Taking network lag into account too that shouldn't be possible if there was significant input delay.

If there is a delay it's baked into weapon attack animations but not universal input lag.

[DLCI]

İlk olarak Midnight tarafından gönderildi:

I can't say that this is the case for me.

Especially the quick downward light attack on some weapon is pretty much instant for me. To the point where I can throw it out just before the enemy hits me. Taking network lag into account too that shouldn't be possible if there was significant input delay.

If there is a delay it's baked into weapon attack animations but not universal input lag.

Umm, this is not an estimate. I used presentmon and measured it directly.

It averages between 20-30ms, and has nothing to do with any network configuration or settings.

It's the engine, the game has 3 times as much input/render latency as vermintide 2. This is not something subjective.

[bacon]

they definitely de-tuned attack speed and dodge. the dodge recovery window has been lengthened, i think. in V2, not dodging for like a half second brought you back to full count. in this game, it feels more like a full second, maybe even more. as ogryn, with a heavy weapon like club or shield, it is almost impossible to dodge consistently, and because the attacks are slow, enemies get in between your strikes.

weapons that support spam are generally weaker, like shovel. but shovel has terrible stagger and damage against armor.

havent played much zealot yet but maybe with those attack speed buffs there is more opportunity for indefinitely melee. with ogryn, it feels like stop and go before you get stuck in the mud from running out of dodge counts.

my solution: let the player dip into stamina to pay for dodge if they are out of dodge count. there is no indicator on screen that you are about to get a false dodge and get stuck in the mud, which is incredibly punishing. the player can actually see their stamina bar and realize they are getting close to running out, and can anticipate and adjust accordingly.

[Cernunnos]

The duelling sword is so satisfying to use.

More fun than the rapier in V2, and I love the rapier.

[VG]

each swing feels like more of a "commitment", unlike vt2 flexibility where you can cancel mid-action and manipulate attacks/movement

im not a fan of this but im def. not opposed to it as it does make melee feel weighty

this feels more like vermintide 1 if i had to make a comparison

[519B.]

İlk olarak DLCI tarafından gönderildi:

The axe is the worst weapon in the game. Melee weapons that cannot hit more than 1 target are useless.

Also the input delay in this game is incredibly high.

It is about 3 times as much as vermintide 2 was.

wrong, the axe is the best melee wepon, cuts of heads consistently

turn on nvidia reflex + boost if youre having input issues..if u can.

[Midnight]

İlk olarak DLCI tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Midnight tarafından gönderildi:

I can't say that this is the case for me.

Especially the quick downward light attack on some weapon is pretty much instant for me. To the point where I can throw it out just before the enemy hits me. Taking network lag into account too that shouldn't be possible if there was significant input delay.

If there is a delay it's baked into weapon attack animations but not universal input lag.

Umm, this is not an estimate. I used presentmon and measured it directly.

It averages between 20-30ms, and has nothing to do with any network configuration or settings.

It's the engine, the game has 3 times as much input/render latency as vermintide 2. This is not something subjective.

So we're talking 13-20ms difference. Yeah, most people won't notice that.

Overall the game still feels much less laggy than Vermintide did, I haven't had any issues with constant phantom hits. Whatever losses in input delay were clearly made up in netcode. The end result being I find timing blocks and attacks much more reliable then back in Vermintide.

[♦BlackJack♣]

i think the melee combat is better in DT its my opinion

[Nihil]

İlk olarak DLCI tarafından gönderildi:

The axe is the worst weapon in the game. Melee weapons that cannot hit more than 1 target are useless.

Also the input delay in this game is incredibly high.

It is about 3 times as much as vermintide 2 was.

Okay that means i wasn't hallucinating :D

Yeah actually the axe is also very good in cc when you use the Block+Melee combo. But yeah it needs some stamina.

İlk olarak Cernunnos tarafından gönderildi:

The duelling sword is so satisfying to use.

More fun than the rapier in V2, and I love the rapier.

BEst weapon in VT2 for sure. Haven't had the chance to try the dueling sword yet sadly. But i can definitely tell, the heavy sword is crap beyond any imagination.

İlk olarak VG tarafından gönderildi:

each swing feels like more of a "commitment", unlike vt2 flexibility where you can cancel mid-action and manipulate attacks/movement

im not a fan of this but im def. not opposed to it as it does make melee feel weighty

this feels more like vermintide 1 if i had to make a comparison

Yeah nicely noticed. Haven't thought about that yet, that we could always cancel every action. Maybe that's also why i feel like i have not as much instant control over my swings.

[DLCI]

İlk olarak Shade tarafından gönderildi:

wrong, the axe is the best melee wepon, cuts of heads consistently

turn on nvidia reflex + boost if youre having input issues..if u can.

I measured every possible combination of setting this in game or in the NV control panel. It 100% does not change it in any way. It is clearly not working correctly because every setting produces the same 20-30ms input latency no matter how it is configured.

And the axe is the worst melee weapon because it has no cleave in a game where you cannot stand and block forever with %BCR gear while spamming pushes and wearing down a horde 1 unit at a time.

The power sword is probably the best melee weapon I have used so far, because it seems to have infinite cleave while powered on. I have killed as many as 30 enemies in a single swing.

[Cernunnos]

İlk olarak Nihil tarafından gönderildi:

BEst weapon in VT2 for sure. Haven't had the chance to try the dueling sword yet sadly. But i can definitely tell, the heavy sword is crap beyond any imagination.

There's a lot of contenders for my favourite melee weapon. Bretonnian long sword is fantastic, changes the flow of the game into something like a rhythm game.

Cog hammer is versatile af, love the Elf's Glaive.

Rapier was my first weapon and it is definitely one of my favourites. WHC is still my most reliable carry class.

The duelling sword in this is similar to the rapier, you have to get good with timing your footwork and dodges to get the most out of it. But it minces it's way through hoards when you do. Isn't great against heavy armour, but I've been running it on my psyker and I'll just switch to the headpop for maulers and crushers.