It's painfully obvious how many people KNOW NOTHING about the lore when complaining about the game.

[Mirror Walker]

I'm genuinely curious if any of the people complaining about the game have actually read any of the books? When you get all your information from youtube videos, the wiki and vapid memes you have no right to voice your unimaginably awful understanding of the universe. How is it that in 2021 people still look at the Imperial Guard as cheap cannon fodder?? We are not playing as some moribund Penal Legion or even simple PDF troopers. Guard regiments from Cadia to Krieg to the Arkhan Confederates or the Iwujii Sharks are born and bred supremely skilled killers. But I suppose people who get all there information from memes wouldn't know that. And to top it all off we aren't, to my knowledge, playing as simple guardsmen. Serving under an Inquisitor means that are characters whether or not they are a priest, Ogryn, guardsmen or.... a FEMALE they were recruited because they were skilled enough to be useful to an Inquisitor. So please, to all the people who have ♥♥♥♥ opinions about this game, go read.
Recommended books. Fire Caste, Cult of The Spiral Dawn, Gaunt's Ghosts series, Honourbound, Dead Men Walking, Eisenhorn trilogy, Ravenor trilogy.

Have a great day.

[AlbaHIbernia]

They don't call them veterans of the long war for nothing.

[Germaine's Bra]

I don't know anything and admit it. I've played Warhammer Fantasy games some but not the Table top game ever. No-one plays here.

[Cipher Esteria]

Kalvix eredeti hozzászólása:

There are things the Imperial Guard has to even the playing field a tiny bit, but not much and certainly not to the degree you're suggesting. The Astartes were literally created to be warriors who would go out into the Galaxy and fight everything, Xenos and other humans.

They were designed 10k years ago. Even back then they already showed a lot of problems.
Meanwhile there have been hundreds of cases were the Guard halted and fought back Chaos Invasions. Had Commisars 1v1 Chaos Warlords, fight Avatars, Hive Tyrants.
Catachans taking Bolter rounds and survive trough the sheer power of their massive abs!
Not to mention how often Ogryns take out things akin to Ork Nobz, something that is by far thougher than your average Astartes.
The entire armor of the Guard is capable of fighting anything in the Galaxy so is literally every Guard Squad.
Stormtrooper are equal if not better than Astartes, they even use Boltguns, when they have acces to them.

The Guard has been holding the Imperium together since over 10k years, not the Astartes. It's the average man who holds the line and takes Planets back, not the Astartes.

The books are constantly making reference to how a handful of Astartes can kill 100s of troops and they have absolutely no hope of fighting back, hell one got 1 of his hearts completely destroyed and was still ok. If Space Marines were as weak as you're suggesting the war would be over already as there are literally trillions of Imperial Guard, and only 900k at MOST Chaos Marines, and that's assuming every single 1 of the traitor legions Marines has been brought back, though of course not all of them even joined Horus so it's much less.

Books also make constant references how singular Orks slaughter entire Astartes Squad. Nobz headbutting Terminator to death. Chaos Marines dying to the dozen trying to charge Guard positions.
You also have Vraks, where the Dark Angels tried to charge an enemy position and had to retreat midway trough because there was an Auto-gun in a bad spot and it mowed them down.
Single Eldar taking out entire Astartes Squads.
The list goes on, Cipahas Cain fell on his ass and killed a Khorne Berserker that way.

You also assume the War is only between the Imperium and Chaos. Forgetting there is a INFINITE alien fleet coming from outside the Galaxy in form of the Tyranides.
You have Trillions of Orks in the Galaxy, who just fight whatever they want.
The Tau Empire.
Eldar and their Craftworlds.
Necrons.
This is much deeper than Chaos.

Cadia isn't held just by the Imperial Guard, theres Adeptus Mechanic, Space Marines, a lot of stuff is defending it, if they let it to purely a few humans it'd have collapsed much sooner than it did, and that planet is literally built as 1 huge fortress against Chaos as it's the only route to the rest of the Imperium.

There is no Space Marine Chapter that regulares Cadia, the only one that would come to mind is the Imperial Fists and even then you have like 1-2 Companys at best. Meanwhile Cadia produces Armies every year.
Adeptus Mechanicus is everywhere the Guard goes, they are needed to keep the Warmachine going, there is no real need to mention them specialy most of the time.

Besides this, Cadia wasn't destroyed, because Chaos overran it. It was destroyed because they threw something akin to a Planet out of the Warp. The Planet broke before the Guard did, literally.
Even now you have billions of Cadians still fighting, moving on to take revenge for their planet.

Cadia was so fortified that every single centimeter was constantly monitored by artillery and every position was ready to be blown up if it would have been lost.
Besides Cadia produced among the finest soldiers in the galaxy.

If they have masses of Chaos Marines getting mown down by normal folks in the game it'll just seem weird and out of place, if they were dumb brutes it could work, but when you combine in the fact they are stronger, smarter, faster, better equipped, have 10,000 years of experience, and need to be killed outright unless you want them to keep coming, it just wouldn't work.

That would be funny enough not even inaccurate. We have an Ogryn.

Besides, just as a reminder, these 10k years of experience never protected Chaos Marines to get on the bad side of Orks,Tyranides, Eldar and it is known that focus fired Lasgun fire will punch trough Power Armor. It is mentioned in books all the time.
Not to mention that is was in the Cadian Handbook.

The "but the books say!" game goes both ways.

[PlayerOnline]

By the way, how many guardsmen are required to cleanse Catachan of its flora and fauna and make the planet suitable to be turned into a hive world or forge world ? Assuming they draw guardsmen from other planets such as Cadians and Krieg Corps. Let's just assume the emperor wants it done regardless of casualties.

[Tactical Drongo]

If they just want to cleanse a world of flora and fauna there are more effective ways then drafting guardsmen
some varieties of exterminatus ammunition leave the planet itself largely intact and only need a few hours

otherwise I would say hundreds of thousands at least

[AlbaHIbernia]

Civilian X eredeti hozzászólása:

By the way, how many guardsmen are required to cleanse Catachan of its flora and fauna and make the planet suitable to be turned into a hive world or forge world ? Assuming they draw guardsmen from other planets such as Cadians and Krieg Corps. Let's just assume the emperor wants it done regardless of casualties.

Interesting question but turning it into a hive world would deplete the Imperium of Catachan jungle fighters and be a net negative. They love the jungle fighters, loss resource requirement= shirtless. Pretty much the only cost is there big off knives made from Catachan resources sent to forge worlds.

They could certainly do it with not Guardsmen, but the Imperial navy, or burn the planet in Promethean like Vulcan did to Ibsen in Promethean sun. Planet to become Caldera in the beast rising series after he did some soul searching on genociding the planet and burning an Eldar child alive. Making peace with how those Eldar where actually trying to help the humans there and saved humans from his homeworld from the Dark Eldar, after he killed them all.

[AlbaHIbernia]

Mr.Cipher eredeti hozzászólása:

Kalvix eredeti hozzászólása:

There are things the Imperial Guard has to even the playing field a tiny bit, but not much and certainly not to the degree you're suggesting. The Astartes were literally created to be warriors who would go out into the Galaxy and fight everything, Xenos and other humans.

They were designed 10k years ago. Even back then they already showed a lot of problems.
Meanwhile there have been hundreds of cases were the Guard halted and fought back Chaos Invasions. Had Commisars 1v1 Chaos Warlords, fight Avatars, Hive Tyrants.
Catachans taking Bolter rounds and survive trough the sheer power of their massive abs!
Not to mention how often Ogryns take out things akin to Ork Nobz, something that is by far thougher than your average Astartes.
The entire armor of the Guard is capable of fighting anything in the Galaxy so is literally every Guard Squad.
Stormtrooper are equal if not better than Astartes, they even use Boltguns, when they have acces to them.

The Guard has been holding the Imperium together since over 10k years, not the Astartes. It's the average man who holds the line and takes Planets back, not the Astartes.

The books are constantly making reference to how a handful of Astartes can kill 100s of troops and they have absolutely no hope of fighting back, hell one got 1 of his hearts completely destroyed and was still ok. If Space Marines were as weak as you're suggesting the war would be over already as there are literally trillions of Imperial Guard, and only 900k at MOST Chaos Marines, and that's assuming every single 1 of the traitor legions Marines has been brought back, though of course not all of them even joined Horus so it's much less.

Books also make constant references how singular Orks slaughter entire Astartes Squad. Nobz headbutting Terminator to death. Chaos Marines dying to the dozen trying to charge Guard positions.
You also have Vraks, where the Dark Angels tried to charge an enemy position and had to retreat midway trough because there was an Auto-gun in a bad spot and it mowed them down.
Single Eldar taking out entire Astartes Squads.
The list goes on, Cipahas Cain fell on his ass and killed a Khorne Berserker that way.

You also assume the War is only between the Imperium and Chaos. Forgetting there is a INFINITE alien fleet coming from outside the Galaxy in form of the Tyranides.
You have Trillions of Orks in the Galaxy, who just fight whatever they want.
The Tau Empire.
Eldar and their Craftworlds.
Necrons.
This is much deeper than Chaos.

Cadia isn't held just by the Imperial Guard, theres Adeptus Mechanic, Space Marines, a lot of stuff is defending it, if they let it to purely a few humans it'd have collapsed much sooner than it did, and that planet is literally built as 1 huge fortress against Chaos as it's the only route to the rest of the Imperium.

There is no Space Marine Chapter that regulares Cadia, the only one that would come to mind is the Imperial Fists and even then you have like 1-2 Companys at best. Meanwhile Cadia produces Armies every year.
Adeptus Mechanicus is everywhere the Guard goes, they are needed to keep the Warmachine going, there is no real need to mention them specialy most of the time.

Besides this, Cadia wasn't destroyed, because Chaos overran it. It was destroyed because they threw something akin to a Planet out of the Warp. The Planet broke before the Guard did, literally.
Even now you have billions of Cadians still fighting, moving on to take revenge for their planet.

Cadia was so fortified that every single centimeter was constantly monitored by artillery and every position was ready to be blown up if it would have been lost.
Besides Cadia produced among the finest soldiers in the galaxy.

If they have masses of Chaos Marines getting mown down by normal folks in the game it'll just seem weird and out of place, if they were dumb brutes it could work, but when you combine in the fact they are stronger, smarter, faster, better equipped, have 10,000 years of experience, and need to be killed outright unless you want them to keep coming, it just wouldn't work.

That would be funny enough not even inaccurate. We have an Ogryn.

Besides, just as a reminder, these 10k years of experience never protected Chaos Marines to get on the bad side of Orks,Tyranides, Eldar and it is known that focus fired Lasgun fire will punch trough Power Armor. It is mentioned in books all the time.
Not to mention that is was in the Cadian Handbook.

The "but the books say!" game goes both ways.

Traitors don't come at Cadia with just legions of Black Legion. Well they do but the bulk of there force is traitor guard and traitor mechanicus the same as the Imperium. Space marines are the elite special forces role of the army while the bulk is still Imperial guard and traitor guard. That's why still Chaos marines should be a boss, not a mini boss or standard enemy. There may be like 100k Black Legion marines but there's only 1000 Astartes per chapter.

Reading books like Dante atm. Who are taking on the bulk of Hive Fleet Leviathan covering the Imperial Guards retreat at the end when they evacuate. Dante laments at the loss of 8 battle brothers & there gene seed as a huge loss. 8, not 8 million! when they deliberate said before that any other chapter other than the "noble Blood Angels!" Would have left the millions of mortal guardsmen to perish. "A few decades before there mortal lives die anyway was the line used". They really cement that point that millions of civilians and guardsmen to most other chapters is nothing to even the risk of half a dozen battle brothers.

[Crystal]

Yeah Guardsman are dangerous, they can kill alot of thing with just a dull knife alone

[Iron_Side]

Look, i´m no expert, but i know that Imperial Guard win fights through numbers and massed firepower.

And there HAS to be a limit to what Ceramite Armor can take, even when it´s fired upon by hundreds of "Flashlights". Let´s not forget there´s not just Guardsmen whenever there are larger battles, theres also Artillery and Tanks.

If you´re advocating that massively for the Astartes and against the Guards, i wonder where you guys think exactly the Threshold lies for the strength of Ceramite Armor.
And at which point would it be rendered useless, by virtue of simply getting overwhelmed.

Imperial Guard is clearly not defenseless, in the sense that they can´t fight back, their armor might actually be completely irrelevant for anything but shrapnell.

[CasioPSX (TASKI MAIDEN #1 FAN)]

i do not like women and do not want them in my games. i will not elaborate further.

[Kalvix]

Eventually concentrated fire weakening it might get through ceramite, but their armour can also shrug off mass reactive shells to a certain degree (so basically grenades being fired at them at high velocity) so it would take a LOT of fire to eventually weaken it to the point of getting through it, and even then a space marine in general is so tough it'll take a lot of shots after that to put them down unless you do a fully charged head shot.

Again people aren't saying Imperial Guard are defenceless, just that due to the fact 1 space marine could probably take down 100s of Imperial Guard it would be ridiculous to have them as anything short of a mini-boss. Even then though I'd say boss would make more sense as what are they going to put you up against thats toughter than a Space Marine and expect you to live? or are people going to start claiming 4 humans could kill a greater daemon or a dreadnought with ease.

[Cipher Esteria]

AlbaHIbernia eredeti hozzászólása:

Traitors don't come at Cadia with just legions of Black Legion. Well they do but the bulk of there force is traitor guard and traitor mechanicus the same as the Imperium. Space marines are the elite special forces role of the army while the bulk is still Imperial guard and traitor guard. That's why still Chaos marines should be a boss, not a mini boss or standard enemy. There may be like 100k Black Legion marines but there's only 1000 Astartes per chapter.

They throw everything at them usually. It took them a planet to break Cadia, literally.

Reading books like Dante atm. Who are taking on the bulk of Hive Fleet Leviathan covering the Imperial Guards retreat at the end when they evacuate. Dante laments at the loss of 8 battle brothers & there gene seed as a huge loss. 8, not 8 million! when they deliberate said before that any other chapter other than the "noble Blood Angels!" Would have left the millions of mortal guardsmen to perish. "A few decades before there mortal lives die anyway was the line used". They really cement that point that millions of civilians and guardsmen to most other chapters is nothing to even the risk of half a dozen battle brothers.

Space Marines are narcicists in most chapters.
Geneseed is precious, because they need that stuff for new Marines, having the Geneseed lost means these 8 can never be replaced.
Add to this that it takes Decades to turn an Initiate into a Scout and then often Decades to become a full on Battle Brother.

And then you have these full on Space Marines get killed by a random Ork, who had a really great day and now can add a new Head to his collection.

It has been said multiple times that Marines rather sacrifice entrie Guard Regiments to safe one Geneseed. Yet the Guard is ready to send in Thousands of Men and Hundreds of Tanks to help Marines in a pinch.
In Short Space Marines are the most ungrateful ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in the entire Galaxy.
Custodes are more respectful towards the Guard, than Marines are.

Kalvix eredeti hozzászólása:

Eventually concentrated fire weakening it might get through ceramite, but their armour can also shrug off mass reactive shells to a certain degree (so basically grenades being fired at them at high velocity) so it would take a LOT of fire to eventually weaken it to the point of getting through it, and even then a space marine in general is so tough it'll take a lot of shots after that to put them down unless you do a fully charged head shot.

They are supposed to withstand that, in reality they do not in most cases.
Autocanon are already insanely dangerous for Marines, let alone Lascanons, Heavy Bolter
or any form of Tankgun.
Grenades of any kind are dangerous, especially as Bundlegrenades. (something that is used since WW1 btw).
It is also writen in the Guardsmen handbook to coordinate fire since one Lasgun won't threat a Chaos Marine, 6 of them focus firing will force him to get to cover or kill him in his approche.
Then you have the Sniper Variant, that can oneshot them. Hellguns.
Catachans are also more dangerous than any Marine, since they have support.
Stormtrooper have Carapace Armor and Hellguns, Bolter.
Hell any form of Plasmagun is a huge threat to Marines and they are not exactly rare within the Guard.

Again massive overstatement of how stronk Marines are.

Again people aren't saying Imperial Guard are defenceless, just that due to the fact 1 space marine could probably take down 100s of Imperial Guard it would be ridiculous to have them as anything short of a mini-boss. Even then though I'd say boss would make more sense as what are they going to put you up against thats toughter than a Space Marine and expect you to live? or are people going to start claiming 4 humans could kill a greater daemon or a dreadnought with ease.

One Marine attacking 100 Guardsmen is suicide for the Marine.
We have a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Ogryn in the Team, they are already stronger and thoughter than any Marine, with weaponry thats more brutal than a Bolter. Yes they are dumber, but having Sergants/Commisars yell at them what to kill is enough. Or they're Boneheads.

Yes 4 humans are capable of killing greater daemons or dreadnoughts.
In fact during the Aurelia campaigne, one Avatar of Kain was brought to his knees by Lord-Commisar Bern, in a Duel.

So safe me of the "muh speesh marinanssss!"

[Kalvix]

I don't know what you are reading... but I hope its fringe stuff that isn't canon as if it is then it leads to the ultimate question: Why is Chaos not completely wiped out when there are trillions of imperial guard, thus easily enough to completely wipe out every single chaos marine with no effort, and if they can easily kill dreadnoughts and greater daemons chaos itself isn't a threat.

I mean seriously it took Fulgrim to beat and Avatar of Khaine, and he struggled, so if what you are saying is true, Commisar Bern with help from a couple of guardsmen is enough to take down Fulgrim... ye that doesn't sound right, and if it is then the Imperium is literally just toying with chaos before easily wiping it out.

[AlbaHIbernia]

Kalvix eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't know what you are reading... but I hope its fringe stuff that isn't canon as if it is then it leads to the ultimate question: Why is Chaos not completely wiped out when there are trillions of imperial guard, thus easily enough to completely wipe out every single chaos marine with no effort, and if they can easily kill dreadnoughts and greater daemons chaos itself isn't a threat.

I mean seriously it took Fulgrim to beat and Avatar of Khaine, and he struggled, so if what you are saying is true, Commisar Bern with help from a couple of guardsmen is enough to take down Fulgrim... ye that doesn't sound right, and if it is then the Imperium is literally just toying with chaos before easily wiping it out.

There's billions of traitor guard, traitor mechanicus, & Daemons. A lot of which where the bulk of the Imperiums army during the great crusade, so think more technology and better trained than Imperium today and more than half of what the Imperium sent during the crusade, lost in the warp time since doesn't move for them. Hence long war, 10k years later. Also a lot of them now live on Daemon worlds in the eye of terror.

[Kalvix]

AlbaHIbernia eredeti hozzászólása:

Kalvix eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't know what you are reading... but I hope its fringe stuff that isn't canon as if it is then it leads to the ultimate question: Why is Chaos not completely wiped out when there are trillions of imperial guard, thus easily enough to completely wipe out every single chaos marine with no effort, and if they can easily kill dreadnoughts and greater daemons chaos itself isn't a threat.

I mean seriously it took Fulgrim to beat and Avatar of Khaine, and he struggled, so if what you are saying is true, Commisar Bern with help from a couple of guardsmen is enough to take down Fulgrim... ye that doesn't sound right, and if it is then the Imperium is literally just toying with chaos before easily wiping it out.

There's billions of traitor guard, traitor mechanicus, & Daemons. A lot of which where the bulk of the Imperiums army during the great crusade, so think more technology and better trained than Imperium today and more than half of what the Imperium sent during the crusade, lost in the warp time since doesn't move for them. Hence long war, 10k years later. Also a lot of them now live on Daemon worlds in the eye of terror.

True, but we would never have reached that stage if the Astartes were so easy to kill as the trillions of imperial guard could have so easily put them down, and if Primarchs and Astertes are so weak Chaos would have bothered to make a whole plan to corrupt them, they could have just slowly corrupted all the vastly more powerful mortals, and much more easily as well.

I mean seriously, why would they waste time corrupting the legions when a Commisar can 1v1 a Primarch? it took them so much time and effort to get such weak pawns.