This game is enormously underrated and a missed opportunity, esp multiplayer.

[Griever]

I just completed the base game 100% achievements, and am nearly level 300 on chaos mode.

I think this game has one thing and it's a huge missed opportunity for multiplayer. Let me explain. This game has a real in depth RPG system, with an extremely large amount of classes/jobs (more than any RPG), and even in depth customisation with the master points.

Basically this game allows you to do any job of your dream from Final Fantasy, and it has multiplayer. Basically there are coutless builds, and not just DPS builds, but tanks, support/healers, etc.

But the sad part under this beautiful deep RPG mechanics is that...You can basically run through the game solo. This is clearly a game made for CO-OP, where you recreate the FF1 party and everyone, a real player, has a role. 4 warriors, or 1 warrior/WhiteMage/etc.

The point I'm trying to make is they created this amazing RPG system, probably the best in any Final Fantasy, and they don't create multiplayer or a system that absolutely requires you to do multiplayer and synergize with real people.

I just feel that this game is like...One part of the development team made this amazing system...Then the other part of the dev team which designed the entire game structure made a structure that's easy to run through solo.

Even getting to level 300 wasn't really hard for me, I basically "cheated" by just increasing the difficulty and killing enemies and instantly wearing their gear, raising my level quickly.

Now I may be missing a big part of the picture by not having the DLCs (I will have them soon), but I'm guessing its the same.

I'm trying to say that....They created this masterpiece of an RPG build final fantasy system and it's a game you run through solo then uninstall. It's a MASSIVE SHAME.

Also looking at the achievements on playstation...Looking at the DLC achievments...Like 5% of players completed many of them. Especially in the last DLC. It's like most ppl didn't even bother to buy the DLC.

Basically this entire game is a quasi masterpiece but Square Enix in typical fashion chose to not even market it too much or keep pushing the online/multiplayer aspect which COULD HAVE BEEN MASSIVE.

I mean this game, when you have 4 real players with different classes/builds, synergising perfectly (the White mage buffing, the Warrior, the Black mage, the Ninja), it's a final fantasy dream come true...And Nobody will know about this and the multiplayer aspect is pretty much dead.

Classic Square Enix fail...

[FreshMint]

Originally posted by Griever:

the sad part under this beautiful deep RPG mechanics is that...You can basically run through the game solo. This is clearly a game made for CO-OP, where you recreate the FF1 party and everyone, a real player, has a role. 4 warriors, or 1 warrior/WhiteMage/etc.

The point I'm trying to make is they created this amazing RPG system, probably the best in any Final Fantasy, and they don't create multiplayer or a system that absolutely requires you to do multiplayer and synergize with real people.

I just feel that this game is like...One part of the development team made this amazing system...Then the other part of the dev team which designed the entire game structure made a structure that's easy to run through solo.

I'm trying to say that....They created this masterpiece of an RPG build final fantasy system and it's a game you run through solo then uninstall. It's a MASSIVE SHAME.

Honestly I'm not always really too big on a *too* large multiplayer focus, I think for this game it's at a very good spot.
The problem with making content that requires multiplayer is that you have content that's gated by multiplayer.
FFXIV shows this well, it's not bad by any means but there are some things that you either can only do with others or put you at a severe disadvantage for going on your own, and matchmaking systems don't always fill the void of absent party members if you don't have a party of your own.

Now we sit with a game that allows you to play how you want it- with friends, with ai or on your own- without feeling too disadvantaged for playing offline, with a few solo mission gates to still check if you're up for what's next.
If anything the multiplayer in this game is fantastic- it's easy to reconnect (and you can pause a dungeon as a group rather than dealing with XIV's instances) and unlike crystal chronicles' rerelease you don't need to complete a mission multiple times so that everyone in the group gets a clear :v

[DecalMan]

Me and my son have played through it entirely co-op, we are doing CHAOS missions now to unlock the jobs higher levels.

A few things I don't like about multiplayer tho.

----------

To play as who we want, the host HAS to be jack, he can be skinned to look like the other characters tho. The other player has to be whoever is in the party, if you want to play a different character you have to add or remove them then invite co-op partner.

Only Jack can destroy the red obstacles that spawn enemies, and only Jack can destroy boss phases.

You have to do the CHAOS missions 2x to unlock the job levels, once for me as the host, then he has to create a game and we have to do it again.

Disconnects you if your AFK, no idea on the timer, but its not very long.

If the host dies, the co-op player cant respawn the host at the checkpoint posts, but the host can respawn the co-op player, makes zero sense.

You have to click yes after every mission to continue to play co-op, no idea if it kicks you if you dont click yes, because we always do, but its there, so it probably does kick you.

Im sure theres other things I dont like, but cant think of any now.

Other then that the game is great, combat is top notch, graphics arent much tho. Bosses are good.

----------

Definitely not a game I can play as much (son co-op) as I played Nioh tho.

[DecalMan]

And i think its only 3 player co-op, not 4.

[FreshMint]

Originally posted by DecalMan:

You have to do the CHAOS missions 2x to unlock the job levels, once for me as the host, then he has to create a game and we have to do it again.

This is one thing I'll admit the game falls short on for not telling you but in order to get the rewards for a mission's difficulty you have to unlock it first, even if you join someone else.

[Griever]

Yeah the point is they really dropped the ball on the multiplayer mechanics which could have been amazing. Imagine if it were kind of like a real multiplayer focused game like Vermintide 2, with leaderboards, LFG mechanics like WoW (looking for DPS, tank, healer, etc).

This game could have a massive and lively multiplayer, with people for example creating a white mage or Paladin character optimised only for multiplayer support.

But it is what it is.
I mean in Nioh and Wo Long, whilst you DO have some levels of heals, buffs, other type of classes, it's nowhere near the job system you have in SOP, so in those games its less about cooperation than in SOP.

[FreshMint]

Originally posted by Griever:

Yeah the point is they really dropped the ball on the multiplayer mechanics which could have been amazing. Imagine if it were kind of like a real multiplayer focused game like Vermintide 2, with leaderboards, LFG mechanics like WoW (looking for DPS, tank, healer, etc).

This game could have a massive and lively multiplayer, with people for example creating a white mage or Paladin character optimised only for multiplayer support.

But it is what it is.
I mean in Nioh and Wo Long, whilst you DO have some levels of heals, buffs, other type of classes, it's nowhere near the job system you have in SOP, so in those games its less about cooperation than in SOP.

How could the game expand on multiplayer in a meaningful way? I feel like going further would make it more into a mmo which has it's own shortcomings such as a want for more content or causing a need for harsher balancing and less freedom in making your builds, especially if they model things after XIV.

What are leaderboards needed for? Leaderboards of what? Speedruns when those communities already have their own boards? DPS races?

If you want to work together with others to make a powerfully build party that's valid and can be fun but I don't see how this isn't already possible in communities outside of the game.

[Griever]

Originally posted by FreshMint:

How could the game expand on multiplayer in a meaningful way?

Tons of ways but basically incentivize it massively instead of it being largely optional.
I feel like they designed the game too much for the solo speedrunner in many ways.
Anyway, it's past now, and won't happen as Team Ninja moved on to other things.
All I was saying is that the MECHANICS themselves (dozens of jobs, in depth customisation) were really stellar and underrated for a game that doesn't give you that multiplayer longevity.

Basically I wish they had created a pleasant and encouraging multiplayer ecosystem with lots of things that make the community lively and wanting to play the game online.

In their defence, neither Square Enix nor Team Ninja ever did stuff like that in their games.
Western devs are better when it comes to this.

[FreshMint]

Originally posted by Griever:

All I was saying is that the MECHANICS themselves (dozens of jobs, in depth customisation) were really stellar and underrated for a game that doesn't give you that multiplayer longevity.

I'll be honest I've kinda grown to feel like multiplayer longevity can come as a detriment over time for a game's gameplay and mechanics, and I'd rather have a really solid game than one that gets dragged out for longer than it really is needed.

I do agree that the game is greatly underrated though, and I kinda rather pin the blame towards people not having taken the game very seriously (KILL chaos!!) since the reveal and an otherwise messy launch (I'm of the opinion that timed exclusivity can make people forget about the game when that exclusivity is over, not to mention it divides communities harshly).

[Griever]

Originally posted by FreshMint:

Originally posted by Griever:

All I was saying is that the MECHANICS themselves (dozens of jobs, in depth customisation) were really stellar and underrated for a game that doesn't give you that multiplayer longevity.

I'll be honest I've kinda grown to feel like multiplayer longevity can come as a detriment over time for a game's gameplay and mechanics, and I'd rather have a really solid game than one that gets dragged out for longer than it really is needed.

I do agree that the game is greatly underrated though, and I kinda rather pin the blame towards people not having taken the game very seriously (KILL chaos!!) since the reveal and an otherwise messy launch (I'm of the opinion that timed exclusivity can make people forget about the game when that exclusivity is over, not to mention it divides communities harshly).

Yeah the Epic Games Store exclusivity thing is a disaster, they did the same thing with FF7 Remake on PC, delaying it forever on steam.

[Katitoff]

Originally posted by Griever:

Originally posted by FreshMint:

I'll be honest I've kinda grown to feel like multiplayer longevity can come as a detriment over time for a game's gameplay and mechanics, and I'd rather have a really solid game than one that gets dragged out for longer than it really is needed.

I do agree that the game is greatly underrated though, and I kinda rather pin the blame towards people not having taken the game very seriously (KILL chaos!!) since the reveal and an otherwise messy launch (I'm of the opinion that timed exclusivity can make people forget about the game when that exclusivity is over, not to mention it divides communities harshly).

Yeah the Epic Games Store exclusivity thing is a disaster, they did the same thing with FF7 Remake on PC, delaying it forever on steam.

I'm indifferent for single player releases, I rarely buy them at release time and wait for them to be polished, and EGS crowd well playtested FF7R for us, however it is not so good for multiplayer games, EGS exclusivity predatory practice just kills them.

[winterMAN555]

Originally posted by DecalMan:

Me and my son have played through it entirely co-op, we are doing CHAOS missions now to unlock the jobs higher levels.

A few things I don't like about multiplayer tho.

----------

To play as who we want, the host HAS to be jack, he can be skinned to look like the other characters tho. The other player has to be whoever is in the party, if you want to play a different character you have to add or remove them then invite co-op partner.

Only Jack can destroy the red obstacles that spawn enemies, and only Jack can destroy boss phases.

You have to do the CHAOS missions 2x to unlock the job levels, once for me as the host, then he has to create a game and we have to do it again.

Disconnects you if your AFK, no idea on the timer, but its not very long.

If the host dies, the co-op player cant respawn the host at the checkpoint posts, but the host can respawn the co-op player, makes zero sense.

You have to click yes after every mission to continue to play co-op, no idea if it kicks you if you dont click yes, because we always do, but its there, so it probably does kick you.

Im sure theres other things I dont like, but cant think of any now.

Other then that the game is great, combat is top notch, graphics arent much tho. Bosses are good.

----------

Definitely not a game I can play as much (son co-op) as I played Nioh tho.

You actually don't have to. What I did was unlock my levels with crystals, then make my gf the host and have her unlock them. Then we just did the mission and it cleared for both. Then she unlocks em, gives me host and so on. It feels like an oversight and is archaic, but I just want to confirm by doing this you don't have to do them double.

[PlebianRhapsody]

While I understand and agree with a lot of what you're saying, I'm kinda glad it's more single player focused. The problem with designing a game around being "live service" which is basically what you're describing, is the design philosophies that fuel them. While there are a lot of shortcomings in multiplayer, like having to unlock difficulties before joining a host and getting rewards (which discourages multiplayer, imo), I don't want a game like Avengers, a more recent Square Enix multiplayer flop. The story in Avengers was amazing, but the levels where you were playing with other heroes were so clearly designed for multiplayer that it made the experience awkward. The live service portion of the game had levels designed where you had to defend multiple points at once. Fun in multiplayer, frustrating and awkward for single player. So much of the great story could get lost in multiplayer specific live service specific mechanics. It was specifically less fun doing the story solo. I liked that with this game, I could play it alone and have it feel like a complete experience.

The gaming industry has had a real rash of cash grab live service failures in the last few years, and I think had this game been designed with that intention, it would have been less intricate, and a lot things you like wouldn't have been made as more development resources were put into multiplayer modes. I wish the multiplayer was bigger, I'd LOVE to play with other people, but not if it means being another Avengers, Anthem, etc.

[DecalMan]

Yes I like it the way it is besides the things I already mentioned. SO far. But i havent touched the DLCs so things may get better or worse. lol. 8/10 for me, Nioh 9.5/10, wo long 6/10 (so far, maybe they will fix it with DLCs and updates tho)

[⭕TheSodaman]

Originally posted by DecalMan:

Yes I like it the way it is besides the things I already mentioned. SO far. But i havent touched the DLCs so things may get better or worse. lol. 8/10 for me, Nioh 9.5/10, wo long 6/10 (so far, maybe they will fix it with DLCs and updates tho)

Just wanted to clarify on the mission comment - the second player will need to have unlocked the mission with that mission level prior to joining the room or you'll need to take turns as hosts to unlock the mission before starting the mission.

Say after a side mission, to go on an unlock tour and unlock the highest level mission of the ones you think you'll be playing together.

[Eddragon]

Iv been playing through the game with two friends. Iv been playing paladin sage and so far with 3 people the games difficulty has been trivial. We just beat the water crystal boss. Every boss so far has been defeated in approximately 20 seconds. Games still been fun tho.