Are all expert jobs just better than advanced/basic? Like any reason to use them once you get expert?

[HekiReki]

Wondering what its based on

[Kashra Fall]

In terms of ronin/samurai. I'd stay ronin just for the Iai draw, does a lot of damage and can hit a wide area of enemies. I think the only thing that changes is the standard RT move, everything else is all tied to weapons and the standard ronin move, is Iai draw, where as samurai, is a MP on hit buff.

[HekiReki]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

In terms of ronin/samurai. I'd stay ronin just for the Iai draw, does a lot of damage and can hit a wide area of enemies. I think the only thing that changes is the standard RT move, everything else is all tied to weapons and the standard ronin move, is Iai draw, where as samurai, is a MP on hit buff.

Yeah thats a good example, I love that ronin iai quickdraw, pretty fun. Samurai version feels quite bad. Do they have all the same katana abilities?

[TwoHands]

For a first play through, expert jobs will have slightly higher stats than basic or advanced jobs. The other difference other than action ability (default R2) are weapon choices and combo links. Some classes have really powerful effects tied to using a combo on that slot. For example, Warrior can refill the break gauge when using the combo set to the forward attack (R1 -> forward + R1 -> R2). Nothing stopping you from playing dragoon all game if you like the jump command. It’s still pretty strong

You should level up other classes eventually either by playing them or using anima shards. That way you can unlock more weapon combo abilities and command abilities for any job you like.

I believe in the base game, when you unlock level caps, all jobs will have similar stats by level 55. However, in DLC 2/3 you will get access to other things that customize your classes further, but that’s for another day.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Zedaso:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

In terms of ronin/samurai. I'd stay ronin just for the Iai draw, does a lot of damage and can hit a wide area of enemies. I think the only thing that changes is the standard RT move, everything else is all tied to weapons and the standard ronin move, is Iai draw, where as samurai, is a MP on hit buff.

Yeah thats a good example, I love that ronin iai quickdraw, pretty fun. Samurai version feels quite bad. Do they have all the same katana abilities?

From what I understand, the abilities aren't tied to the class, but to the weapon. I haven't tested thoroughly in that regard yet.

[TwoHands]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Zedaso:

Yeah thats a good example, I love that ronin iai quickdraw, pretty fun. Samurai version feels quite bad. Do they have all the same katana abilities?

From what I understand, the abilities aren't tied to the class, but to the weapon. I haven't tested thoroughly in that regard yet.

That’s correct. Only the combo abilities (and command abilities) unlocked in each job tree can be used by any class when that weapon is equipped. So the only thing Ronin can do that samurai can’t is Iai-giri because that is a class ability and not a weapon combo ability. (Later on you can transfer basic class abilities to advanced and expert jobs, but that’s the exception)

[HekiReki]

Originally posted by TwoHands:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

From what I understand, the abilities aren't tied to the class, but to the weapon. I haven't tested thoroughly in that regard yet.

That’s correct. Only the combo abilities (and command abilities) unlocked in each job tree can be used by any class when that weapon is equipped. So the only thing Ronin can do that samurai can’t is Iai-giri because that is a class ability and not a weapon combo ability. (Later on you can transfer basic class abilities to advanced and expert jobs, but that’s the exception)

Appreciate the info! Gets a bit confusing.

[chaos915]

Pillgrim is better than Evoker. The unique hook move is great for closing distances, and good for killing cactaurs fast.

[Khotetsu]

Originally posted by Zedaso:

Originally posted by TwoHands:

That’s correct. Only the combo abilities (and command abilities) unlocked in each job tree can be used by any class when that weapon is equipped. So the only thing Ronin can do that samurai can’t is Iai-giri because that is a class ability and not a weapon combo ability. (Later on you can transfer basic class abilities to advanced and expert jobs, but that’s the exception)

Appreciate the info! Gets a bit confusing.

To expand on this further, while the weapon combos (and command abilities) can be used by any class once you've unlocked them, the passives in a job tree are exclusive to that job, which can drastically change your play style.

For example, Mage vs Black Mage: Black Mage gets access to more variety of damage types and some VERY powerful spells through its spell casting ability (and combos unlocked in the tree), but it has very little in the way of mana generation, so you won't be using those spells as often as you would with other classes. The basic Mage job, however, has several talents that increase the amount of mana you generate with basic attacks and also regens mana while you're casting spells. So you don't get access to as many varieties of damage types or as powerful spells, but the spells and abilities that you do have you can use more often, and to some extent, you can make up for the lack of damage types by using combo skills found in other trees - black mage has combos that give you ice and electricity, while the white mage tree gives you access to holy damage.

Or, to continue the Ronin example, Ronin gets a talent that gives you a guaranteed crit on your back combo (R1 -> R1 while holding back on the left stick -> R2), meaning that if you assign an ability with big damage on that combo, like the Iai quickdraw, you can do massive damage with that guaranteed crit.

[Katitoff]

A lot of classess utility unlocks once you get to Bahamut difficulty and hand in your first rat tail.

Basic mage for example gets buttload of flexibility with new spells, passive mana regen while casting and Osmose and could end up pretty powerful with black mage 450% affinity.

[Proudly Toxic]

No.

How good a job will be at endgame is determined by how good its weapon selection and unique job skill is.

A lot of the starting jobs can be really good at endgame but you should keep in mind in New Game +4 you start being able to get their job action as a weapon skill roll on a weapon. But Jobs themselves get an evolved version later which means that the weapon skill roll won't be as good as the class's evolution version of that move which may have additional modifiers.

In the same manner, some jobs can be a little bit lackluster later because their job ability isn't great. Like Knight. I wouldn't play Knight at endgame.

Then there's the job affinities. Gear can give you job affinity so that at certain breakpoints you unlock themed abilities around the job its based on, and these are independent of the jobs you're using. A White Mage can get Knight job affinity.

Using Knight as an example, Knight is a trash job to main, but Knight's Job Affinity bonuses are among one of the best in the game because they make you invincible under Lightbringer, and this can benefit any other job in the game.

Pick a job you like based on their job action and weapons they have available to them. Play the other jobs to unlock their command abilities (Lancet, Mighty Strikes and Lunatic are the 3 really good ones for melee jobs) as well as weapon combo abilities from other jobs that share the same weapon types. (A Swordsman can use Dark Knight's greatsword moves.)

Then its all about building affinities and getting gear with modifiers that make you OP. Things like recover Break on hit are amazing on almost everyone. Or MP cost reduction of command abilities like Lancet. A lot of your endgame customization is going to be figuring out how to maintain your MP topped up at all times and some sort of self-sustain, and how to scale your damage so you can faceroll everything.

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

In terms of ronin/samurai. I'd stay ronin just for the Iai draw, does a lot of damage and can hit a wide area of enemies. I think the only thing that changes is the standard RT move, everything else is all tied to weapons and the standard ronin move, is Iai draw, where as samurai, is a MP on hit buff.

Samurai is great because MP recovery is important in the later difficulties. Now that said, if you like Iai Quickdraw, you can either keep playing Ronin, or once you reach DLC3, you can find a Katana with Iai Quickdraw as one of its given abilities, and you can use Iai quickdraw outside of Ronin.

[A]

Originally posted by Zedaso:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

In terms of ronin/samurai. I'd stay ronin just for the Iai draw, does a lot of damage and can hit a wide area of enemies. I think the only thing that changes is the standard RT move, everything else is all tied to weapons and the standard ronin move, is Iai draw, where as samurai, is a MP on hit buff.

Yeah thats a good example, I love that ronin iai quickdraw, pretty fun. Samurai version feels quite bad. Do they have all the same katana abilities?

Y'all sleeping on the Samurai's active. it's cheesy af if you pair it with Swordfighter's intercept--the uptime is ridiculous making you almost invulnerable if managed properly.

If anything, I thought the ronin active is pretty redundant with the rest of the katana abilities.

[Griever]

Originally posted by Khotetsu:

To expand on this further, while the weapon combos (and command abilities) can be used by any class once you've unlocked them, the passives in a job tree are exclusive to that job, which can drastically change your play style.

Dammit I didn't know that.
That changes my thinking about my build a lot.
Thanks for this comment. NONE OF THIS IS ACTUALLY EXPLAINED.

[Demdankmemez.TTV]

From my experience thus far and what I’ve researched, all jobs can be made to be powerful. It just all depends on your preference really

[Griever]

Originally posted by Demdankmemez.TTV:

From my experience thus far and what I’ve researched, all jobs can be made to be powerful. It just all depends on your preference really

Even basic and advanced jobs?
Doesn't it imply that the expert jobs are basically the GOAT ones?
Like for example, isn't Paladin better version of Knight and Knight better version of swordfighter?

[⭕TheSodaman]

Originally posted by Griever:

Originally posted by Demdankmemez.TTV:

From my experience thus far and what I’ve researched, all jobs can be made to be powerful. It just all depends on your preference really

Even basic and advanced jobs?
Doesn't it imply that the expert jobs are basically the GOAT ones?
Like for example, isn't Paladin better version of Knight and Knight better version of swordfighter?

Even for the basic and advanced jobs.

The game tries to give some flavor names to the categories, but post-credits, the basic and advanced jobs caught up originally around job level 55 to where the expert jobs had no stat advantage at that point.

Some changes in October 25 and January 27 further enhanced the basic jobs and expanded the options for the advanced and expert jobs, but left the basic Mage job behind, the advanced Evoker ignored, and several Ultima and Evocation branches lacking.