Publicado originalmente por 0x143:

Publicado originalmente por Fivox:

Gotta say, while you are being respectful, this single reply pushed me off the buy fence. "Some people are not able to comprehend that deleting saves is permanent like in every single game ever made, so I won't be adding an easy way to delete your saves."

Maybe, instead of a just a simple confirm dialogue, you could add a switch that has to be pressed to enable "delete mode" which has very big text that warns that they are in delete mode WITH a confirmation. Why should I have to dig into the files because some people are not able to read? Such an odd hill to die on.

Alright, well to be honest. The reason is that "delete saves" is a new request. Until now players have only ever requested that saves last longer. I had a campaign reset, which only ever caused players to make mistakes. I asked players "has anyone ever actually used this on purpose" and none of the discord players reported using it and those are players with 100+ hours.

So yeah, the reason you "must dig through the file system" is that I ask and listen to players, instead of insulting them for making human mistakes. No one ever asked to delete saves, until this thread. If players ask for things, I'll consider it just as now that players have asked for a sandbox delete I've got a ticket to add it. Until now, players have asked me to remove the campaign delete. Different feature sure, but I'm trying to apply the lessons from players.

Daniel

Listening to feedback is important! And kudos for you doing so.

But it's a dual edged blade.

A campaign of a puzzle game not having a delete save option is not uncommon. But not including one for a sandbox game is a QoL feature that is missing. It doesn't improve the experience for users to have to go into their folders and try to find the files specifically they need to delete to remove a save file. If anything, that introduces a whole slew of potentially more catastrophic results when the people you are trying to protect from deleting saves are sent into their file system to remove a botched run.

And to note, I am not insulting people. If someone deletes their save and then emails you to complain about them not having read the prompt that told them they are going to delete their save, at least one of two things is true: The prompt didn't explain their actions correctly or they didn't read it.

On that note, another way you can implement (as others have done) is a click to hold system for the prompt, which gives them an amount of time to read the prompt before their file is permanently deleted. There are loads of ways to go about the system.

That brings two new ways you can possibly prevent the accident from happening while still offering the option. A toggle switch to enable delete mode and a hold to delete on prompt. All without the possibility of someone deleting the Windows32 folder. :)

I've dealt with a lot of user experience with what I do, and I'm sure you'll appreciate the work you put into adding this QoL feature for the people you hope to bring with this update.

Publicado originalmente por chorchoun:

Nice.
2) Where is the Bank (in sandbox mode)? Since the starting cash settings maximum for sandbox is quite low, the bank would be very useful. Or could it be at least unlockable via research?

2. With sandbox we did not want to force players to play the tutorial. This meant we needed to make sure players could safely learn & play. The bank being both a powerful but dangerous tool means we don't let have a place for it on the sandbox. In sandbox the early phase is about establishing a cashflow economy, and I think a bank would mislead players into trapping themselves into debt.

Daniel

Thanks for the amazing update! I am building my first trade empire right now and having a great time! On the subject of banks, your concern could be easily mitigated by adding it at a tech level higher than 0, or by splitting deposit vs loan into two research trees. The savings side of the bank is a big part of my strategy in the regular game mode, so I am a little disappointed to see it removed.

Publicado originalmente por Draslin:

Publicado originalmente por chorchoun:

Nice.
2) Where is the Bank (in sandbox mode)? Since the starting cash settings maximum for sandbox is quite low, the bank would be very useful. Or could it be at least unlockable via research?

2. With sandbox we did not want to force players to play the tutorial. This meant we needed to make sure players could safely learn & play. The bank being both a powerful but dangerous tool means we don't let have a place for it on the sandbox. In sandbox the early phase is about establishing a cashflow economy, and I think a bank would mislead players into trapping themselves into debt.

Daniel

Thanks for the amazing update! I am building my first trade empire right now and having a great time! On the subject of banks, your concern could be easily mitigated by adding it at a tech level higher than 0, or by splitting deposit vs loan into two research trees. The savings side of the bank is a big part of my strategy in the regular game mode, so I am a little disappointed to see it removed.

Adding the bank to the tech tree sounds perfect. It should be safe even early in the tech tree. And then players get to introduce it as part of their strategy. I'll make a ticket.

Just finished reading the comments and thought I would add my comments to the 2 major points mentioned here..

Deleting of Saved Games in the Game - I will use such a feature
I quite regularly start and delete games that has some sort of management design ( I definitely do on Planet Zoo ) . Sometimes you make the wrong decision and you want to remove the wrong version and continue from a previous version. Or you have a long list of saves and you only need the last x versions. So yes, if I ever find myself in that situation I would definitely use it.

Bank Usage - Please let us save and earn interest
In the campaign I did dip into the loans initially. But once I heard about the saving option I was constantly adding excess funds to the bank and earning interest. Putting some sort of research tech in the game to gain access to the bank and it's various aspects ( loan, save, withdraw etc )

Map Seed/Identifier for sharing purposes
I haven't played recently so I may have missed it - but - When creating the map, it would be good to have access to the seed , or some other identifier so that you can send your friends the identifier and they would be able to use it to get the same map.

Publicado originalmente por 0x143:

Alright, well to be honest. The reason is that "delete saves" is a new request. Until now players have only ever requested that saves last longer. I had a campaign reset, which only ever caused players to make mistakes. I asked players "has anyone ever actually used this on purpose" and none of the discord players reported using it and those are players with 100+ hours.

So yeah, the reason you "must dig through the file system" is that I ask and listen to players, instead of insulting them for making human mistakes. No one ever asked to delete saves, until this thread. If players ask for things, I'll consider it just as now that players have asked for a sandbox delete I've got a ticket to add it. Until now, players have asked me to remove the campaign delete. Different feature sure, but I'm trying to apply the lessons from players.

Daniel

Exactly, resetting whole campaign and deleting single sandbox maps is a whole different thing.

The campaign is always the same, there is no randomly generated maps or so, which can generate better when you reset it. On top of that you can reset each single mission progress from Overworld map if you need to. So there is no reason to reset the whole campaign. Except same rare occasions like if you return to the game after years and rather start from scratch than continue from somewhere in the middle. Or you already completed it and wanna do it again.

But this is different with sandbox. You may want to create map for all biomes to see how they look and how they generate resources etc. You may want to start maps in different sizes to see whether your computer is capable of running it or how long it will load. You may want to try different map settings like Resources and the two other settings unique for each biome (like Mountains/Lakes on Boreal forest...). You may want to try few different map Variants to find the one you like and want to play on. And all this will pile sandbox save games you will probably never use again, because they served just as middle steps to find the right one.

And that's the reason why there should be a direct way to delete sandbox save game directly in game.

Publicado originalmente por 0x143:

Sorry, while I understand your position I've had too many reports of players deleting their campaign progress despite the big confirmation dialog I added.

I understand you do not want to open your file system, that is fair, but I'm the guy who gets the emails from sad players asking if there is anyway to restore their save. So I'm the guy who is has decided not to implement a save delete.

I dunno wtf the world is coming to when basic and necessary functionality is being removed because a few idiots refuse to learn an insultingly simple concept. Talk about the few ruining things for the many. Should we stop preparing food at home in case we accidentally stab ourselves in the head?

No features have been cut. Rather I never thought to add it.

Now that players have requested it, I am implementing the feature.

Everyone please calm down, and certainly please do not get angry at other players.

Publicado originalmente por 0x143:

No features have been cut. Rather I never thought to add it.

Now that players have requested it, I am implementing the feature.

Everyone please calm down, and certainly please do not get angry at other players.

It's ok, nobody gets angry, we are just saying opinions and arguments. Thank you for working on it.

And just a humble question, how about my ideas from few posts above (24. dec)? Any chance you will at least look at it? :-)

Maybe I have one more feature suggestion. The "block view" (G) from editor is very useful and sometimes it would be very helpful even in normal game. The terrain is sometimes comlicated and I it is hard to build on some spots when you can't see the exact shape of it, so it would be helpfull to switch to block view for a while and check the terrain blocks before building there.
As usual - thanks for consideration. ;-)

Publicado originalmente por chorchoun:

And just a humble question, how about my ideas from few posts above (24. dec)? Any chance you will at least look at it? :-)

Maybe I have one more feature suggestion. The "block view" (G) from editor is very useful and sometimes it would be very helpful even in normal game. The terrain is sometimes comlicated and I it is hard to build on some spots when you can't see the exact shape of it, so it would be helpfull to switch to block view for a while and check the terrain blocks before building there.
As usual - thanks for consideration. ;-)

Thank you for reminding me about your suggestions.

What I've done for the next patch is add the bank as unlockable in the tech tree. This seems like the best of both worlds. Players who know how powerful the bank can be will prioritize the research, while new players have time to build up a cashflow economy.

For the immediate future I think I want us to focus on building out the sandbox mode. Thus things like the minimap are what I want to do in future updates. I want our development time to be focused on new core mechanics if possible, plus new content. As such I don't think we'd tweak the various information presentation. For example, things like showing upkeep for special buildings means runs into the limited screenspace on that menu. The upkeep values are tuned pretty cheap, and you are shown upkeep on the tooltip before construction. , etc.

But the minimap is something multiple players asked for, so I think that is worth the hud space. Plus I have similar code I wrote for the map gen preview, thus it should be possible.

Publicado originalmente por 0x143:

Publicado originalmente por chorchoun:

And just a humble question, how about my ideas from few posts above (24. dec)? Any chance you will at least look at it? :-)

Maybe I have one more feature suggestion. The "block view" (G) from editor is very useful and sometimes it would be very helpful even in normal game. The terrain is sometimes comlicated and I it is hard to build on some spots when you can't see the exact shape of it, so it would be helpfull to switch to block view for a while and check the terrain blocks before building there.
As usual - thanks for consideration. ;-)

Thank you for reminding me about your suggestions.

What I've done for the next patch is add the bank as unlockable in the tech tree. This seems like the best of both worlds. Players who know how powerful the bank can be will prioritize the research, while new players have time to build up a cashflow economy.

For the immediate future I think I want us to focus on building out the sandbox mode. Thus things like the minimap are what I want to do in future updates. I want our development time to be focused on new core mechanics if possible, plus new content. As such I don't think we'd tweak the various information presentation. For example, things like showing upkeep for special buildings means runs into the limited screenspace on that menu. The upkeep values are tuned pretty cheap, and you are shown upkeep on the tooltip before construction. , etc.

But the minimap is something multiple players asked for, so I think that is worth the hud space. Plus I have similar code I wrote for the map gen preview, thus it should be possible.

Thank you very much for response.

Just small clarification, I don't mean the upkeep should be as separate line constantly visible on screen a eat another HUD space. A was talking about the small popup window appearing when you click on the building. But ok, this is probably not as useful as other things. It is just a small step to perfection. ;-)

I am definitely looking forward to the new core mechanics and new content you are talking about.

To be honest I wasn't sure whether to buy this game, but now I am happy I did. :-)

This is what I was waiting for. :D
Your Game is awesome, but I'm not a long Term player when it comes to games that have more of a puzzle character.

Kool! Got it today on sale will give it a try! I enjoy survival or puzzle or mix.

Nice job! Will be picking this 1 up

Advertise!!

Hum i had this game as ignored because it was more of a puzzle but now that there is a sandbox i'll consider it !

le pied! refait plusieurs fois les régions pour mieux faire à chaque fois, réflexion, organisation et planification sont les mamelles de ce jeu, on fait de erreurs mais on les corrige, bien sûr pas de dégomme avec de gros flingues empanachés mais c'est ce qui me plait! j'adore!