Will there be playable aircraft besides the harrier?

[Czar Salad]

Obviously only the harrier is playable now, but I haven't seen anything that definitively says yes or no to whether or not any other planes will eventually be made playable.

[SSerponi76]

Av-8

[Mors]

I wish that there would be at least few extras that would add for both Blue and Red side something interesting for air and ground.

- BLUE Close Air Support -
AV-8B+ (1995 plane)
SEPECAT Jaguar
A-7 Corsair II

- BLUE Air Interception Fighter -
F-4J Phantom II
F-105 Thunderchief
F1 Mirage

- RED Close Air Support -
MiG-27
Yak-38
Su-24 or Su-22

- RED Air Interception Fighter -
MiG-21
MiG-23
Su-15

Three for both categories, for both sides IMHO would be excellent amount (12 in total) to choose in coming years.
Especially Yak-38 and Harrier would be amazing for carrier ops if there ever will be some.
And MiG-27 / MiG-23 amazing pair to fly on Red side.

[Perfect Info]

My impression is that there is a desire by the developer to expand the aircraft roster, however very good reasons not to commit to or roadmap this in the present circumstances.

It should be noted that there was a prototype of the game a while back. However, that prototype was mostly scrapped in order to start fresh with a better code base. And that's really one of the curses of programming: you need a really solid plan for expansion, otherwise you create a ton of technical debt when you grow beyond what you planned for. Since this is a single developer game, that kind of technical debt can be unmanageable past a certain point and you end up having to throw it away and move on. I can say I've had many non-game projects of mine turn out like that and up discarded!

I suspect there are also publishing-related reasons not the over commit. May or may not be explicit warnings from the publisher not to expand the scope of the 1.0 release without consultation. But just generally also not knowing if the financial model of the project is viable to realise everything. E.g. "Well, our models are predicting you've reached 80% of the revenue you can expect, and the remaining 20% is going to be a slow trickle over years. If what you have in-pocket is not enough to feed yourself while you code these features, then we need to have a hard discussion about how to monetise it. DLC? TCA2?"

Thus, I'd say, "You should decide to buy or pass on the game based on what you see right now. It's a singleplayer, Harrier flight sim with the capacity for scripted scenarios and a dynamic battle, with both those being only partially realised." I think we'll see the dynamic battle flesh out and a mission builder realised in some form before 1.0. But I wouldn't buy based on the hope of a larger roster, or multiplayer, or a full campaign, or workshop support, until you see it in writing from the developer.

[Why485]

Originally posted by Perfect Info:

My impression is that there is a desire by the developer to expand the aircraft roster, however very good reasons not to commit to or roadmap this in the present circumstances.

This is a very well written post. I'm actually working on the roadmap right now, and exactly how to phrase it and what to include is something I'm wrestling with.

I mentioned it in the Steam news post, but the roadmap will be very conservative. I.e. no real surprises, because I don't want to commit (i.e. promise from the perspective of the customer) to something I'm not 100% confident I can do, and want to do. It also needs to be something that I'm >90% sure won't change (or be cut entirely) down the line due to development realities.

Gamedev is hard, and plans change all the time. Speaking for myself, this is why I've been very hesitant to give concrete public answers to many questions about future plans. I know how I want to attack my plans, but the details have already shifted a bit due to player feedback, and I don't want to lock myself into something that, later on down the line, I find out isn't a good idea.

[Simicro]

Perfect Info: very thorough and wise post, mate!

[Mors]

There is no need to list a specific airframes to be playable before development for such would start.

But it is better to inform potential buyers that what is plan about adding those. Is it excluded that there will not be anything other to fly than AV-8B+ Harrier (that is from 1995-1997 btw), or that there will be other planes to fly as well, because the support for it is to be developed.

[Topfighter101]

Originally posted by Mors:

AV-8B+ Harrier (that is from 1995-1997 btw),

Technically the harrier in game would be something much more similar to the old av8b (which for some weird reason I can't find many mentions of it online, but have found references to it in quite a few books) which entered service in 1985. This version lacked the radome on the front and looked almost exactly like the old harrier model that you can see in some of the old devlogs. But when the radome got added it made it look far more like a harrier II plus, which is a 1995 aircraft like you say.
basically im pretty sure the harrier in game is a regular av8b but with a radar strapped to the front for gameplay purposes.

[Mors]

Originally posted by Topfighter101:

Originally posted by Mors:

AV-8B+ Harrier (that is from 1995-1997 btw),

Technically the harrier in game would be something much more similar to the old av8b (which for some weird reason I can't find many mentions of it online, but have found references to it in quite a few books) which entered service in 1985. This version lacked the radome on the front and looked almost exactly like the old harrier model that you can see in some of the old devlogs. But when the radome got added it made it look far more like a harrier II plus, which is a 1995 aircraft like you say.
basically im pretty sure the harrier in game is a regular av8b but with a radar strapped to the front for gameplay purposes.

AV-8B entered to service like you say, in 1985. But that is "day-time" only fighter.
Then 1989 the AV-8B N/A where N/A means "Night Attack" with FLIR in front of the canopy.
And later on mid 1990's the AV-8B+, that we have, was allowed to be purchased, where the + has a optical targeting system replaced with a F/A-18C Hornet radar, where the radar antenna was made smaller to fit the Harrier radome.

But we have AV-8B+ with a 2026 upgrade, JHMCS that is helmet mounted sight so when you look around, you have your HUD picture with your view, Link-16 datalink and support for many other newer missiles like AIM-120C-7 and AIM-9x block II. The AV-8B+ previously was limited to AIM-120A and AIM-120B, that we have in the game.

So if going for the 80's theme, we shouldn't have a AV-8B+ but just N/A, that is harrier without radar, without AIM-120B support and no JHMCS or datalink.
Or even just the day-time Harrier that doesn't have FLIR capability for the HUD.

For gameplay purposes we have:
- Radar (right display, and AIM-120B)
- Datalink (left display)
- JHMCS (capability to look around with HUD information).

[Why485]

The Harrier in the game is a made up version. It's not a Plus. The "HMD" is purely a gameplay abstraction and not really representative of the "real" plane. A radar was added for gameplay reasons too, but I'm fine with working that into the "lore".

As I've said before, that isn't and won't be the only deviation from reality. E.g. see the AIM-82.

[Klugman]

Originally posted by Why485:

The Harrier in the game is a made up version. It's not a Plus. The "HMD" is purely a gameplay abstraction and not really representative of the "real" plane. A radar was added for gameplay reasons too, but I'm fine with working that into the "lore".

As I've said before, that isn't and won't be the only deviation from reality. E.g. see the AIM-82.

Props to you dude. Dont let them get you down as most havnt a clue what it takes to make something like this. Keep up the great work !!!

[Mors]

Originally posted by Klugman:

Props to you dude. Dont let them get you down as most havnt a clue what it takes to make something like this.

Or maybe here there is more than few that has more than just a "clue", than you think....

[Klugman]

Originally posted by Mors:

Originally posted by Klugman:

Props to you dude. Dont let them get you down as most havnt a clue what it takes to make something like this.

Or maybe here there is more than few that has more than just a "clue", than you think....

I wasnt trying to trigger anyone...thats why I said most...and yes most is correct.

[Mors]

Originally posted by Klugman:

Originally posted by Mors:

Or maybe here there is more than few that has more than just a "clue", than you think....

I wasnt trying to trigger anyone...thats why I said most...and yes most is correct.

Even when it is true that most don't have even basic programming experience, but that doesn't make their ideas and wishes incorrect or invalid.

The Harrier in the game is the AV-8B+ by the model, by the game features. They can be tried to be explained by developer "Oh it is just gameplay feature", but none than AV-8B+ Harrier has those features. Renaming a missile to something non-existing doesn't make it like the copying the real thing when it looks and works like the one for that.

The not-required to be mentioned fact "developer can do what ever want to do" is thing that majority of the people know and understands, that is why people participate to the forum so they can discuss and share the ideas with the developers. Otherwise people would be out right there doing something own if they just would have the possibility to modify and change the game as they like. And some of those are requesting the modding capabilities etc (that I am personally against in the early phase of the development, but recommend after some time of the "completing" the game).

Example if I could do some small adjustments, it would be like moving the radar display and RWR/Datalink display to the MFCD panels and make them behind a toggle button to switch either one as wanted. And then fit the HUD information inside the actual HUD glass. That way it would look better, IMHO as it would follow more realistic cockpit. This, because I would like to make few other planes to game with their own limited or additional capabilities.

[simple_one73]

I love lots of different planes to play, even if a bunch of them used a generic cockpit view. I know the developer previously said he was not going for a large variety of planes, but who knows. I just finished playing simple planes and was flying a x15 with 120's on it to hunt down enemy planes, I obviously do not care if the harrier is a perfect match for a time frame, fun factor is much more important, good decision making from my point of view.
a-6 big old bomb truck, a7 , everyone forgets about the 105 - excepts Mors- super fast bomber.
WHY 485 I am all about the ground attack, weapons load out, gj.