combat changes suck

[Deathstroke]

makes getting the req for combat wilderness flash events almost impossible unless using best in slot gear, not to mention seems to further the gap between necro and the other styles somehow

[Elia]

I do agree that necro needs a nerf or the other 3 styles need a buff to match necro. everyone seems to now only use necro because it only needs 5 abilities and is 3x as strong and it sucks

[King Kratos]

No. The Combat Update is a 10/10 hit, good for the game, and includes solid changes, @op here's why you are 100% wrong:

1. The combat update makes the game more fluid and modern.
2. The combat update has brought back MANY Rs3 Players back to the game.
3. The combat update has only nerfed necromancy by an approximate percentage of 2-4%. (Marginal and warranted to balance Combat).
4. There were so many Beta's launched by Jagex and they truly took the feedback into account and I salute Jagex for this.
5. The gap between Necro and Melee & Ranged is not as far and wide as you think, kindly try out all 3 with all BIS (best in slot) gear/perks/everything and then edit your post @op
6. Lastly, if you read the post by Jagex they said they will in the future be also updating magic and I'm certain that's why the FSOA is trending up in price as I type this and also why I have the patience to wait for Jagex to bring Magic into the realms of Necro/Range/Melee.
7. Jagex even released Thok's PVM event alongside this update which is very smart.

Let me know if you have any in-depth facts or statistics that back-up this false narrative otherwise enjoy the game.

Appreciate you ~ B.G.

[Varpushaukka]

Publicado originalmente por Boss Geralt:

1. The combat update makes the game more fluid and modern.

Love it when people call action bar combat "modern", as if it didn't already exist in other MMOs like WoW 20 years ago. Not to mention that other such MMOs have done it better, because they built the combat system with action bar in mind from the start, while RS3 has tried to retrofit it.

If RS3 ever wants to properly compete with other action bar combat MMOs, there's 3 core issues that it needs to fix:

1. Make a game tick faster than 0.6 seconds. Currently, every time you input an action, it takes up to 600ms (varies based on when you perform the action during a game tick) before your input is registered, which is slow as hell for a combat system that's supposed to be fast-paced. Ideally this should be at least 0.1 seconds or faster, meaning that input lag would be max 100ms.

2. Remove the tile system for movement (aka unrestricted movement). Currently, trying to move around quickly and precisely is clunky as hell for anyone who hasn't already gotten used to it through years of trial and error, because your character only has 8 directions to move in, rather than pretty much an infinite amount in other MMOs. Tiles can also conflict with some AoEs, where visually the AoE extends to certain tiles, but functionally does not, whereas without the tile system, you can easily have the visual side and functionality match properly, so that what you see is what you get.

3. Add the option to be able to move with WASD/arrow keys. People are used to this in other MMOs, so forcing them to learn to move with the mouse is about as great as asking a left/right-handed person to change their dominant hand. Many probably won't bother even trying, because they know it'd take a long time before they could get used to it, and those that do have an unnecessary obstacle to tackle, then if controls were properly accessible.

But here's the thing: Jagex will never implement these changes, because unlike the combat changes that they have done so far, these require vastly more effort and resources to do, pretty much all of them require reworking the entire game to make sure that something doesn't break (e.g. changing the length of a game tick also changes actions outside of combat, throws the animations out of whack, puts more load on the already crappy servers etc).

And that's why RS3 will never truly compete with other similar MMOs, because it'll always have these handicaps going against it. Tweaking some numbers here and there to change the balance between combat styles only helps existing players who are already used to these shortcomings; it does nothing for new players who don't want to bother learning their way around them.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Publicado originalmente por Varpushaukka:

And that's why RS3 will never truly compete with other similar MMOs, because it'll always have these handicaps going against it.

To be fair, Runescape was never in competition with other MMOs. It was and still is it's own niche in the MMO market.

[King Kratos]

Publicado originalmente por Jimmy Hunter:

Publicado originalmente por Varpushaukka:

And that's why RS3 will never truly compete with other similar MMOs, because it'll always have these handicaps going against it.

To be fair, Runescape was never in competition with other MMOs. It was and still is it's own niche in the MMO market.

I must agree here, Runescape is one of a kind. A gem. Perhaps even a Diamond - the best you will source in the entire world.

[Varpushaukka]

Publicado originalmente por Jimmy Hunter:

To be fair, Runescape was never in competition with other MMOs. It was and still is it's own niche in the MMO market.

Correction: it never *should've been* in competition with other action bar combat MMOs, but Jagex chose to try and compete with them anyways, with poor results. Had Jagex actually believed in their own niche, they wouldn't have even entertained the idea of EoC; they would've done what OSRS is doing now, trying to play into the strengths of the combat system that the game was built upon. But Jagex thought they had to be "modern" (which, again, even in 2012 wasn't modern) to compete with WoW and others like it.

Imagine if RS3 released as a new game today; how many people do you think would bother learning EoC from scratch? Because back when EoC launched, people had already spent many years progressing their accounts, so the sunk cost fallacy "motivated" people to learn it, even if they didn't really like it; as a newly released game, it'd be hell of an ask to tell players to learn a combat system that the game wasn't designed to have.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Publicado originalmente por Varpushaukka:

Imagine if RS3 released as a new game today; how many people do you think would bother learning EoC from scratch?

The average gamer wouldn't touch an MMO in this day and age. That's ignoring the fact that you'd have 12 extra years of our traditional combat and there wouldn't be a OSRS.

There are an implausable number of variables in this question that realistically, neither of us could accurately gauge this question in any kind of useful manner.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Publicado originalmente por Repeating Days:

It brought people back? It's player count has been diminishing since it released on Steam whilst OSRS is packed. I don't care about words or promises. Only results.

Player count for RS3 is roughly the same it's been outside of the obvious peak with Covid. Steam has not had a major change on the playerbase one way or another. Especially since they've moved more towards the Jagex Launcher.

[King Kratos]

It brought people back? It's player count has been diminishing since it released on Steam whilst OSRS is packed. I don't care about words or promises. Only results.

Certainly it did - here's how I know (OSRS is absolutely still way more populated than Rs3 but that's good- I appreciate both games)

I don't rely on steam player counts as I don't use steam to play rs3 (nothing wrong with it if you do- I stand with the people and help out whenever I can or just chat for fun). Thus, most people (not all, but the majority) have migrated to Jagex Launcher per the 15 minute AFK timer you get when using it which is OP / I love it.

Also, players did return after this combat update and have said they enjoyed it (of-course not EVERYONE will like it; thus I gave @op some free steam points lol- spend them wisely my dude) however on a serious note; based on a variety of factors the sum is = alot of great folks returning to Rs3

************(if you simply look at player count charts- it doesn't provide much of a story read my story below instead):

AFTER the combat update released:

1. I immediately saw and still see (consistently/daily) >100 or more of my own friends list friends who took long breaks from Rs3 return after the combat update.

1a. I'm sure you all will likely see the same depending on your clan, friends list, etc (I'm personally- incredibly active and as you see on my profile- my favorite game isn't even RuneScape, yet I call it the GOAT - because it is a one of a kind GEM of a MMORPG running 20+ years strong: see my profile for more)

2. I also see many more folks enjoying the new combat landscape based on a substantial increase in PVMing loot broadcasts, World Broadcasts, Server Broadcasts and *Clan Broadcasts- more on this below

3. PLEASE NOTE MY FRIENDS: I know you may be used to dead in-game chat boxes however not when I'm around ;) !

3a. I talk, chat, and make the in-game chat box pop with energy and likely remain in the top 1% of in-game chatting enthusiastic things and if you are playing the game without a CLAN or an inactive clan - I PLEASE & Kindly implore you to join the Great Clan/Brotherhood I am in below:

3b. As you all know, in-game chatting is rare sight in most worlds/clans/etc - So please come through World 99 and then Join or Guest in the GREAT Top 10 CLAN I'm in= The Godz - There is no other clan like The Old Godz & The New Godz.)

*2k+ Total Lvl is our only requirement.

4. Further, as an active daily (Enoys it all type) scaper, I also see both of my clan chats and Discord Voice chats being WAY more active after the combat update.

5. Further, I've seen more people active on Runescape 3 Official Discord (and it's associated many other community discords)!

6. AND to top it off - I talk to anyone in game quite a-lot and the overall in-game ambiance these days (AFTER the Combat Update) is much more positive with folks using & stating that they Enjoy all types of different styles of combat once more.

6a. (If you really wish to have the BEST Rs3 experience - I kindly invite you to come join World 99 - Guest or Join - The Godz clan (it's 2 clans in 1 and a brotherhood) - Easily the Top 10 most active clan around) to TRULY see what I'm talking about here. :)

7. With that said, I literally saw and still see wayyyyyyyy more friends broadcasting pvm loot, pets, hsr drops, tavia fishing rod, the works via the in-game clan chats and increases across the many fine Runescape 3 Discord servers.

8. I literally walk into the pvm hub any day of the week right now and see it filled with people attacking every single boss in the game (including myself).

tl'dr = Thus, the Combat Update does not suck (I gave you that Jester/Free steam points @op) but nothing personal - we're ALL different and that's what makes the gaming world so dang beautiful. I just want you all to enjoy the game whether you're on osrs or Rs3 - which I know you all love deep down inside if you've played it.

Join the Winning Team on the G.O.A.T Runescape - The Old Godz & The New Godz

~Sincerely, Boss Geralt aka just call me B.G. or Gerry if u wish.

[Varpushaukka]

Publicado originalmente por Boss Geralt:

It brought people back? It's player count has been diminishing since it released on Steam whilst OSRS is packed. I don't care about words or promises. Only results.

Certainly it did - here's how I know (OSRS is absolutely still way more populated than Rs3 but that's good- I appreciate both games)

A long list of "I saw this and that" which basically translates to "source: trust me bro", and some random clan advertising is your source? Jfc, such pointless mental gymnastics, when Jagex releases the online player counts on their own website, and you can simply use those numbers as a source. Here you go:

https://www.misplaceditems.com/rs_tools/graph/

Take a good look at the history of average weekly/monthly/qtr year numbers: since covid began, after the initial boost from people being stuck at their homes, the trajectory for RS3 has been slowly downwards. Or if you ignore the covid boost, then just like Jimmy Hunter said, RS3 player count has been pretty much stagnant. The daily average for the past 7 days has been roughly 19-21k each day; lower than the 2 weeks prior to that, roughly the same as the first two weeks of February. If the combat update was such a massive success, the daily averages should've gone up, not down. Especially with the Thok buffs being active again.

[Deathstroke]

Publicado originalmente por Boss Geralt:

No. The Combat Update is a 10/10 hit, good for the game, and includes solid changes, @op here's why you are 100% wrong:


5. The gap between Necro and Melee & Ranged is not as far and wide as you think, kindly try out all 3 with all BIS (best in slot) gear/perks/everything and then edit your post @op






Exactly, like I said, any other style exluding necromancy is still worthless and underwhelming unless using the best in slot gear (which 90% of players absolutely cannot obtain). Melee in particular is still suffering, especially after the raised damage output cap from 10k to 30k, which is effortless with necromancy or potentially even magic, but almost impossible with melee, and difficult with ranged. Unless the combat changes are modified to make using equipment that is NOT best in slot viable for the original 3 combat styles, I can't change my opinion on the update. and it certainly won't do anything to increase player numbers in the game where it most counts, which is and always has been new players.

[Espionage724]

Publicado originalmente por Deathstroke:

makes getting the req for combat wilderness flash events almost impossible unless using best in slot gear, not to mention seems to further the gap between necro and the other styles somehow

Get the BIS gear then and train necro. This is a game, not a handout. Yeah, you have to have good gear to do high-end content, and of course the newest skill would be prominently featured with recent updates related to it; who could have ever seen that coming :p

Other people can do it without complaining about it on some forum. I think Jagex was onto something with removing their forums.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Publicado originalmente por Espionage724:

Get the BIS gear then and train necro. This is a game, not a handout. Yeah, you have to have good gear to do high-end content, and of course the newest skill would be prominently featured with recent updates related to it; who could have ever seen that coming :p

Other people can do it without complaining about it on some forum. I think Jagex was onto something with removing their forums.

What kind of cognitive dissonance do you have where you think it's a good idea to tell people to spend billions to be able to participate in a Wildy Flash event?

[Varpushaukka]

Publicado originalmente por Espionage724:

Publicado originalmente por Deathstroke:

makes getting the req for combat wilderness flash events almost impossible unless using best in slot gear, not to mention seems to further the gap between necro and the other styles somehow

Get the BIS gear then and train necro. This is a game, not a handout. Yeah, you have to have good gear to do high-end content, and of course the newest skill would be prominently featured with recent updates related to it; who could have ever seen that coming :p

Other people can do it without complaining about it on some forum. I think Jagex was onto something with removing their forums.

Why would you want gear to be a deal breaker though? Better gear should obviously make things easier for you, but I'd like to think that skill should be the decisive factor when it comes to being able to do a piece of content, so that you're actually encouraged to get better at the combat itself, rather than simply having the numbers in your gear's stats go up.

And btw, what makes you think Jagex decided to remove RSOF because of complaints? Fmods already moved all rants to the rants subsection, which required you to be logged in to even see it, so any complaints were already buried in a section most people didn't bother to visit. No, the actual reason is the obvious one: to cut costs, Mod Lyon and some other jmods were maintaining the front/backend of the forums, so shutting down the forums reduces their workload, maybe even allows Jagex to let go off some of them.

[DevilDaRebel]

Publicado originalmente por Varpushaukka:

Publicado originalmente por Boss Geralt:

1. The combat update makes the game more fluid and modern.

Love it when people call action bar combat "modern", as if it didn't already exist in other MMOs like WoW 20 years ago. Not to mention that other such MMOs have done it better, because they built the combat system with action bar in mind from the start, while RS3 has tried to retrofit it.

If RS3 ever wants to properly compete with other action bar combat MMOs, there's 3 core issues that it needs to fix:

1. Make a game tick faster than 0.6 seconds. Currently, every time you input an action, it takes up to 600ms (varies based on when you perform the action during a game tick) before your input is registered, which is slow as hell for a combat system that's supposed to be fast-paced. Ideally this should be at least 0.1 seconds or faster, meaning that input lag would be max 100ms.

2. Remove the tile system for movement (aka unrestricted movement). Currently, trying to move around quickly and precisely is clunky as hell for anyone who hasn't already gotten used to it through years of trial and error, because your character only has 8 directions to move in, rather than pretty much an infinite amount in other MMOs. Tiles can also conflict with some AoEs, where visually the AoE extends to certain tiles, but functionally does not, whereas without the tile system, you can easily have the visual side and functionality match properly, so that what you see is what you get.

I can't take your advice seriously when you're suggesting to change the game at a fundamental level which is almost impossible.

Both the tick and the tile system are the bread and butter of runescape. to change either, it would require an overhaul to the likes of building a new game. The tile system is what makes up Runescape, you just can't "change" it. Tick is something that in theory should be easier and faster to fix. But still ultimately hard to do.