I'll be excited to play once gambling MTX is removed

[Runy]

RS3 is one of my all time favourite games and I'd be super stoked to have it on Steam and such but I just absolutely hate the gambling MTX and worry that having a wider audience is only going to make Jagex more likely to push MTX even more aggressively.

It has been nearly a decade since it was added, it's about time that Jagex, the self-proclaimed mental health advocate, stops relying on gambling MTX.

You can even replace the gambling MTX with the exact same things but without the gambling element for all I care - I just want the gambling gone once and for all.

I've played the game on/off (mostly on) for more than a decade used to have multiple accounts with membership and lots of friends I encouraged to play (sometimes even on my own dime), but Jagex hasn't seen any of my money for a long while. I'd love to return - but not with the gambling MTX.

I really hope Jagex can find the integrity to turn things around.

[BOT Tomfrag]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Proxy:

I have 6000 hours playtime in RS3.I have all the good equipment like masterwork, virtus,pernix scythe, ascension crossbows etc.I have max cape and round about 600m total xp. I paid in my whole time playing 1 time 50€ only because I wanted a some cosmetics. I never paid for xp.
I'm in a clan of 360members from new player to comp etc. and really NOBODY in this clan pays for any TH keys.

So for my experience only a few player are paying for TH. Because its useless.

A clan with 360 members in which "nobody pays for TH keys" is not something that exists on RS, unless these 360 are mostly bots/alts. It's called a clan full of liars who don't want to admit they are re----ed enough to spend money on such game. Most players who do won't admit it, and as the old player that you claim to be, you should know that very well. No offence.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Proxy:

I NEVER heard of anybody gets punished because he of the oddment store. Can you pls explain?

The first example (grotesque souls) was from around a time I visited RS (2016), like a year before I returned to it.
There was an event, in which you could collect "grotesque souls" as the event's currency. That currency could be sold to the NPC store, and Jagex did that by accident (according to them). Players would buy it off the G.E. (from players not knowing you can sell it for more to the NPCs) and sell it to the NPC store. Jagex banned them saying "they should have known that event currency is not meant to be sold to NPCs blahblah". Banning players for their own mistake and saying the players should have magically guessed/known it was not supposed to work that way is BS in my book.

The second example (oddments) is the most recent one I could think of. There was a TH promo in which people could cash out their prizes and earn lots of oddments, because the promo would give you oddments for each x keys used (there was a bar at the bottom that'd fill up by using up keys and give you guaranteed red prizes/oddments/etc.)
Jagex (as always) failed math, and people could get more and more oddments from cashing out their prizes. Some people I know collected like 50k~100k oddments. Guess what? Tons of people got banned for like 3 days, and some permanently. Again, for Jagex's mistake, which they admitted on stream too, but said (once again) "players should have known not to take advantage of it, blahblah". Pathetic company.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Proxy:

Economy isn't that good. You're right but thats because most of the players are all end content. You barely see any new players. So the content goes to high lvl bossing because thats what everybody does in the end.

But the economy of OSRS is not better. All the low lvl items like copper, feathers and woods are less worth in osrs because it gets bottet all the time.

Correct. And that's bad. Endgame content should not be only bossing.
OSRS' economy being worse only proves my point further. Skilling is so badly designed that people bot it and/or use alts and semi-afk it that it's awful money. And instead of Jagex making skilling more interactive (like Big Game Hunter), so people can't bot it/afk it like that, so that it'll be decent money, they focus on just releasing more elitist prick content - endgame elitist bossing updates and garbage like that. Take Nex: AoD as an example. 50m an hour, compared to the average skilling moneymaking method (e.g. Divination) that's ~3m an hour. Literally over 15x the amount of money.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Proxy:

Yes you're right. The game is not really f2p because most content is pay2play. Runescape should say it has a free2play trial. But you can see it like World of Warcraft. You can play WoW until lvl 20 free. after that you need to pay monthly. So Runescape should do it like WoW

But WoW doesn't present itself as a free game, lying/deceiving people. Blizzard makes clear that it's just a trial - to try the game out. While Jagex acts like the game's 100% playable if you don't pay or grind all day long to buy what gives you p2p status off other players buying it. And if those choosing to buy the bonds (p2p status item) decide not to sell them, you can never be p2p without paying. They're calling their game 100% f2p while hoping people will buy and sell bonds - or maybe they will sell bonds themselves on the G.E. if others stop selling them, they're corrupt like that and we all know it. They never wanted to make the G.E. listings visible so they can manipulate them how they like, but I won't go on further about that as there's no solid evidence.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Proxy:

Turn-based? What? I would say OSRS is turn based. But the combat is a little bit more fluent in RS3.

Yes, "a little bit more fluent" - still based on ticks. Whether both attack at once, or by turn, it hardly makes a difference. It's an awful, boring combat system compared to most other games'.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Proxy:

Hay I got my account banned too! Bank cleared and perma banned because of botting. I had a pause of 1 year. After I returned I wrote the support and they unbanned my account. Ofc I didn't get my bank back but thats not the problem at least I had my account back. after 2 months I had all my high lvl gear back (without fighting of getting money gifted from other players)

Do you even play bro?

My friend never botted or broke any rules. He had his account hijacked somehow. He still never got any of his items back, despite Jagex confirming that someone had indeed accessed his account illegally. All they told him was that, along with telling him that account-sharing was against the rules so he would have to change his password to block the other person's access to the account, or they would have to terminate his account. Basically like telling him "we don't care you got hacked/lost all of your stuff, change your password or we will ban you." - as if it mattered after being hacked. Their customer support is literally the worst I've ever seen from a game company personally, and I've been gaming for over 15 years now.

And no, I don't play this disgrace of a game anymore, but I visit occasionally to check the situation. I still have friends playing it and I read the game's news and everything, so I know the situation pretty well, and it's quite miserable. I visited when they released Archaeology to try it out, and guess what? Half of us - myself included - couldn't even access the game for the first 24+ hours. Do you know how much game money players who could access it made on the first day? Let me tell you - it was close to 15m/hour afk. So players who couldn't play lost over 200m I'd say, and Jagex never compensated them. But it isn't the first time. They never compensated anything. Like when they make game changes after deciding they f---ed up somewhere. The Giant Mimic made permanent content along crashed mimic tongue capes so bad people lost billions, for example, back when I played. And it doesn't really have to be about game GP always. There were things like Invention which had powerleveling methods which Jagex removed 2-3 days after release, but didn't de-level players who abused them. We had people reach 99 within the first day or two, or 120, I forgot. And people bought lots of supplies to use that method, then Jagex removed it, and they had to sell back all they bought for a lot less - it crashed, of course, after the change. Jagex always screw their players up like that, and if they think we don't see it because it didn't happen to us personally, they're wrong.
At this point, I would not pay a dime for the game, but I would happily pay a big sum to see the game closing. Jagex doesn't deserve to make a single cent more. The only worthy employees they had, like Mat K and Shauny, have either been fired or left. Mostly cancerous devs/mods only left in the company.

[Corfaisus]

Even if I choose not to use MTX, it's still had an undeniably horrible effect on the health and economy of RS3. I understand the business side of "loot boxes" and the sort (continued income for a product that's already been purchased), but not the consumer side. It rots the experience from the inside out. If I return to RS3 on Steam, I will be treading carefully and waiting patiently for more F2P content.

[Double Deez Nuts]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Corfaisus:

I will be treading carefully and waiting patiently for more F2P content.

not gonna happen lol, F2P hasnt changed in decades

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

if you don't like the gambling system then just done use it....? you know... like 90% of the players?
its not pay2win, you dont miss on anything if you done buy TH keys. there are plenty of flaws in this game, but this is the least concerning of them

and for the record, this game has some of the most transparent and user-friendly gambling mechanic of any other game i know.
the chanes are explicitly stated. you have a choice to freeze unwanted possible rewards, and each time you spin, you get to choose between 3 options.

sure gambling is still bad. but at least in RS3 its as inoffensive as it can posibly be

[Runy]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

if you don't like the gambling system then just done use it....? you know... like 90% of the players?

The vast majority of players participate in TH every day that they log in, at least if stats haven't changed much over time (and there's not really much reason why they would in this case).

The issue also is that gambling, y'know, typically has regulations surrounding it that prevent it from, y'know, abusing children. Like, it's just not that hard to get it. It's unethical. The issue isn't if it personally is something I participate in or not, it's that other people are being exploited. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make the problem go away, it just lets you ignore it.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

its not pay2win, you dont miss on anything if you done buy TH keys. there are plenty of flaws in this game, but this is the least concerning of them

If it's "P2W" or not is besides the core point, which is that people are being exploited and it's not okay. It's not ethical, and Jagex is simply taking advantage of a legal grey area that has been left far too long due to lazy, feet dragging governments.

This is the most concerning flaw to me, personally, because I . . . Don't like vulnerable people being exploited, as a rule. Y'know, it's just basic moral stuff, y'know? I don't mind if they fail to update the game frequently or whatever - or poorly balance something, like I DO care about that but not so much that I'd want to stop supporting them.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

and for the record, this game has some of the most transparent and user-friendly gambling mechanic of any other game i know.

This game is SO unbelievably bad about communicating gambling that THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE GAME GOT CONFUSED BY IT. They made a semi (or completely) infinite loop for TH and oddments that they had to patch out quickly because they failed to understand how their own gambling mechanics work.

IT IS NOT USER FRIENDLY OR TRANSPARENT IF THE CREATORS THEMSELVES CANNOT FIGURE IT OUT. I can't stress that enough. You cannot make the argument that this is transparent or user friendly.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

the chanes are explicitly stated. you have a choice to freeze unwanted possible rewards, and each time you spin, you get to choose between 3 options.

sure gambling is still bad. but at least in RS3 its as inoffensive as it can posibly be

Is it AS bad as it could be? No. Is it still awful? Absolutely.

You can explicitly state chances and still be obfuscating things massively, or they would not have made the error that they made very, very, very recently.

Ultimately, if they just removed the gambling aspect we would see people still buying EXP and such just . . . For a clear amount for a clear price. Why NOT do that instead? Why should they continue to exploit children with unregulated, underage gambling services? There's simply nothing to be gained for the customers that is so valuable that we should not simply seek to protect the vulnerable people being exploited by this instead. The only people who benefit greatly from this are the investors who get to rake in lots of money for it, but should we care about that handful of people more than the countless people they take advantage of? Of course not.

[MegaMan]

You best believe I'm slamming a negative review pointing out these terrible MTX practices once the game is out on Steam.

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

not going to argue with the fact that gambling is bad.
i too would like to see it gone. but i just know it won't happen, so its better to just live with it peacefully than constantly get angry over it.
RS3's gambing feature really isn't that offensive considering one simple thing - you barely get any value from it.

90% of all rewards are xp stars/lamps. that's it.
once in a while you get a cosmetic item that you could buy with runecoins anyway, and once in a very long while you get something thats worth actual gp.

there is not enough bait to actually exploit people. there is not a single thing in you can only win in TH and nowhere else. the rarest reward in the gambling feature is just 200milion gp and the amount of keys one would have to spend to win that super rare 0.001% to get 50m gp, easily supercedes the 60$ one could spend on simply buying a bond and selling it to other players.

am i defending TH? hell no.
all im saying is that there is no need to get worked up over since its much less harmful than you people make it up to be

[Runy]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

not going to argue with the fact that gambling is bad.
i too would like to see it gone. but i just know it won't happen, so its better to just live with it peacefully than constantly get angry over it.

Things can change. When you take the mindset of, "Well, it won't change! Better to just accept it." You are helping make that thought a reality. Accepting it as inevitable emboldens Jagex to do nothing.

Here's another way to look at it: I'm not going to suddenly not say something about it, so why not contribute your time to saying, "Yup. I want it gone too." Rather than, "It's fine! It's fine! Let it go!"?

You say you want to see it gone, but your actions produce the opposite effect.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

RS3's gambing feature really isn't that offensive considering one simple thing - you barely get any value from it.

Not a lot to you, but plenty of people see enough value in it - and when that's the case that can mean that, because it offers so little value . . . They sometimes spend a LOT on it.

Obviously it, hopefully, damages the game's economy less by being so "meh" in terms of value, but it also ends up making it more dangerous and predatory, leading to greater overspending, than it would otherwise.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

The simple fact is,
90% of all rewards are xp stars/lamps. that's it.

That is very valuable to a lot of people.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

once in a while you get a cosmetic item that you could buy with runecoins anyway, and once in a very long while you get something thats worth actual gp.

EXP is worth actual GP to a lot of people, and we've seen plenty of things such as skilling outfits and DTD that offer significant bonuses to gameplay.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

there is not enough bait to actually exploit people. there is not a single thing in you can only win in TH and nowhere else.

You sure about that? Take a look through this list: https://runescape.wiki/w/Treasure_Hunter/Rewards. There's so many examples of things that are exclusively from TH that it isn't even worth pointing them all out. Even many of the prizes that aren't TH exclusive still are going to be alluring to many people. Hell, one of the most alluring things (EXP/BXP) is, of course, not TH exclusive . . . But it's very appealing.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

the rarest reward in the gambling feature is just 200milion gp and the amount of keys one would have to spend to win that super rare 0.001% to get 50m gp, easily supercedes the 60$ one could spend on simply buying a bond and selling it to other players.

The perceived value of keys is high enough to encourage a great deal of people to buy in, and the fact that the true value is so completely obfuscated is horrible for customers.

And I'll note - that 200M that is so, so very rare? People have it dangled in their faces constantly, "Your next key could be . . ." Kind of thing is just psychologically abusive bait.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

am i defending TH? hell no.

Yeah, you actually are. Even if your point isn't "TH is okay!" You are still making arguments and saying things that ultimately support TH as it is and for nothing to change.

If you actually want it to change, start actually arguing for it to be changed.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

all im saying is that there is no need to get worked up over since its much less harmful than you people make it up to be

On the contrary, it is more harmful than you think it is and nothing you've said has proven otherwise. If you simply look at the reality of the situation - the bad outcomes related to kids and gambling, both scientifically investigated and anecdotally given - we already know it's more harmful than you think it is.

Hell, their government is looking into loot boxes because even they think it's harmful (took them long enough to figure that one out) and by God we can hope that they actually do something - but every time you try to downplay the seriousness of it, what do you think that does? Do you think it helps support change? Or do you think it holds it back? What's the best outcome of you convincing anyone that "it's not that bad"? Because it's nothing good.

Jagex is providing unregulated gambling service to underage children, and it's causing genuine damage. They say they're mental health advocates, but their actions are in opposition to the mental health of their users. Don't downplay it, don't defend it, and don't pretend you're not defending it when you are defending it. If you don't want to be defending it, then stop defending it.

[JolyJew СлаваУкраине]

ok fine I admit defeat.
when this game will arrive to steam I will upvote all negative reviews that call out the gambling mechanics.

but that doesn't mean im against mtx as a whole.
I do believe that if people want to buy xp with real money they should have the freedom to do so

[Double Deez Nuts]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Jolly Jew:

buy xp with real money

this is why its called easyscape. too many cheaters
also annoying as a maxed person: they just keep adding random skills no one asked for to milk the game of xp buying.

[Lucifer ★✬]

dont like it, dont use it. easy

or do arch, you can use any boosts for it atm

[Double Deez Nuts]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lucifer ★✬:

dont like it, dont use it

not using it doesnt stop other people from using it. really devalues the max cape