A very frustrating combat experience

[PL]

Hello dear dev team !

While I don't want to be "that" guy - this project demanded a lot of hard work - I just rage quit the demo after too many attempts against the "spear guy".

So many things exasperated me. This is the 1st time I quit a game to instantly write feedback on Steam. Unfortunalely, it had to be negative feedback.

Keep in mind that I'm a particularly raging type of player. I'm in no way, shape or form, attempting to attack you or spit on your hard work. I hope my huh... "enthusiastic" attitude will not hurt anyone.

1- ENEMY TRACKING : absurd. For testing purposes, I was sprinting at Mach 3 around the spear guy, thanks to the lock on. His thrust attacks still got me no problem... like I was standing still in front of him.

2- DODGE : also frustrating because of enemy tracking. You can only do reasonable damage in close-combat... but if you're in close combat, you can't dodge far enough to avoid most of enemies counter strikes. And if you decide to roll to the side, the enemy tracking is so accurate that you have to time your dodge at the right moment or you will get hit, brutally damaged and need a precious health potion.

3- DEFLECT : very unstatisfying. It's clearly not a "shield" but it's not a parry either. You have to time PERFECTLY every deflection in order to not get fµcked. It's irritating and difficult to execute properly when enemies spam attacks or spin to win. And of course, any bad timing punishes you so heavily that you're good to run away and sip a health potion after one hit. It's kinda like the Sekiro deflect mechanic... only there is no stamina / poise / stance gauge in Thymesia, so there is neither reward nor satisfaction for deflecting with masterful timing. It's "Get good or get fµcked".

4- SUPER ARMOR : questionably balanced. Souls games have this mechanic for special moves or when an enemy is particularly massive / heavily armored. In Thymesia, you can slash an enemy around 3 times (more or less) before they start attacking you and NOTHING will stop them. It is irritating to slash them with a big claw strike and they decide to retaliate at the same moment... but they don't even flinch and brutally hit you in the face, half a second later.

To conclude my combat experience in Thymesia, I spent the whole demo (part of it anyway) hesitating all the time, wondering if I should attack right now or if I would get brutally punished for attacking at the wrong moment, knowing that I could not roll away far enough, "parry" with the right timing, or get smacked in the face because of enemy super armor that not even a frickin' nuke could interrupt.

While I'm a long time Souls games fan, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a particularly good player. Maybe my bad experience is solely due to the fact that "I suck" like gamers tend to nicely tell each others these days. Totally possible.

But if this is the type of gameplay you're aiming for, then I have to admit that you've already lost me. I'll leave your hard work in the hands of others - more persistent or talented than me - and wish you the best. Not every game is meant for everyone and it's totally fine.

(Also, I didn't even adress all of the other things : art direction, ambience, sound design, U.I, etc etc. Apologies. I'm too frustrated at the moment to get my thoughts clear about the demo in general)

[PL]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Trancevestite:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PL:

Keep in mind that I'm a particularly raging type of player.

Life is hard for folks like us, i envy people who can get frustrated without raging XD

What my surroundings sound like when I'm angry XD :

a) DUUUDE !!!
b) OH COME ON !!!
c) FµCKING H3LL !!!
d) ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!!
e) THIS IS SO FµCKING DµMB !!!
f) WHO DESIGNED THIS SH[T !!!
g) I HàTE YOU !!! I HàTE YOU SO MUCH !!!

This... and so many other options it would be too long to quote them all. ^^"

There are times when my throat starts to really hurt because of all the rage. And mind you, I never yell. I rage in a quiet, almost whispering tone. You have to watch me to know how furious I am. XD

[Yeff]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PL:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Trancevestite:

Life is hard for folks like us, i envy people who can get frustrated without raging XD

What my surroundings sound like when I'm angry XD :

a) DUUUDE !!!
b) OH COME ON !!!
c) FµCKING H3LL !!!
d) ARE YOU KIDDING ME !!!
e) THIS IS SO FµCKING DµMB !!!
f) WHO DESIGNED THIS SH[T !!!
g) I HàTE YOU !!! I HàTE YOU SO MUCH !!!

This... and so many other options it would be too long to quote them all. ^^"

There are times when my throat starts to really hurt because of all the rage. And mind you, I never yell. I rage in a quiet, almost whispering tone. You have to watch me to know how furious I am. XD

The problem for me is my wallet tends to suffer from it the most, the amount of controllers and mice i had to replace lmao, didnt have to replace any keyboards tho as turns out they are pretty sturdy xd

[Tiplomacy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Video games suck:

It really is some of the worst combat I've seen in a Souls-like.

This right here is the best summary. Short, accurate and precise. To add one line of my own, the game is based on combat and the combat is horrible.

[Ridan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PL:

Hello dear dev team !

While I don't want to be "that" guy - this project demanded a lot of hard work - I just rage quit the demo after too many attempts against the "spear guy".

So many things exasperated me. This is the 1st time I quit a game to instantly write feedback on Steam. Unfortunalely, it had to be negative feedback.

Keep in mind that I'm a particularly raging type of player. I'm in no way, shape or form, attempting to attack you or spit on your hard work. I hope my huh... "enthusiastic" attitude will not hurt anyone.

1- ENEMY TRACKING : absurd. For testing purposes, I was sprinting at Mach 3 around the spear guy, thanks to the lock on. His thrust attacks still got me no problem... like I was standing still in front of him.

2- DODGE : also frustrating because of enemy tracking. You can only do reasonable damage in close-combat... but if you're in close combat, you can't dodge far enough to avoid most of enemies counter strikes. And if you decide to roll to the side, the enemy tracking is so accurate that you have to time your dodge at the right moment or you will get hit, brutally damaged and need a precious health potion.

3- DEFLECT : very unstatisfying. It's clearly not a "shield" but it's not a parry either. You have to time PERFECTLY every deflection in order to not get fµcked. It's irritating and difficult to execute properly when enemies spam attacks or spin to win. And of course, any bad timing punishes you so heavily that you're good to run away and sip a health potion after one hit. It's kinda like the Sekiro deflect mechanic... only there is no stamina / poise / stance gauge in Thymesia, so there is neither reward nor satisfaction for deflecting with masterful timing. It's "Get good or get fµcked".

4- SUPER ARMOR : questionably balanced. Souls games have this mechanic for special moves or when an enemy is particularly massive / heavily armored. In Thymesia, you can slash an enemy around 3 times (more or less) before they start attacking you and NOTHING will stop them. It is irritating to slash them with a big claw strike and they decide to retaliate at the same moment... but they don't even flinch and brutally hit you in the face, half a second later.

To conclude my combat experience in Thymesia, I spent the whole demo (part of it anyway) hesitating all the time, wondering if I should attack right now or if I would get brutally punished for attacking at the wrong moment, knowing that I could not roll away far enough, "parry" with the right timing, or get smacked in the face because of enemy super armor that not even a frickin' nuke could interrupt.

While I'm a long time Souls games fan, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a particularly good player. Maybe my bad experience is solely due to the fact that "I suck" like gamers tend to nicely tell each others these days. Totally possible.

But if this is the type of gameplay you're aiming for, then I have to admit that you've already lost me. I'll leave your hard work in the hands of others - more persistent or talented than me - and wish you the best. Not every game is meant for everyone and it's totally fine.

(Also, I didn't even adress all of the other things : art direction, ambience, sound design, U.I, etc etc. Apologies. I'm too frustrated at the moment to get my thoughts clear about the demo in general)

I too, even being a long time souls player also, felt the same. First I though "well I probably need to get my head in the game". Then I got to the spear guy... I challenged myself to learn the ways of the game, but I still got killed a bunch of times. I managed to defeat him but I can't even measure how many years of my life a lost due to the stress of it. I do not think the combat is bad, and the problem is not something the famous "git gud" can solve. It's real problem is the unfeairness the combat presents right now.

[|AcL|LeM0nXaX|]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PL:

Hello dear dev team !

While I don't want to be "that" guy - this project demanded a lot of hard work - I just rage quit the demo after too many attempts against the "spear guy".

So many things exasperated me. This is the 1st time I quit a game to instantly write feedback on Steam. Unfortunalely, it had to be negative feedback.

Keep in mind that I'm a particularly raging type of player. I'm in no way, shape or form, attempting to attack you or spit on your hard work. I hope my huh... "enthusiastic" attitude will not hurt anyone.

1- ENEMY TRACKING : absurd. For testing purposes, I was sprinting at Mach 3 around the spear guy, thanks to the lock on. His thrust attacks still got me no problem... like I was standing still in front of him.

2- DODGE : also frustrating because of enemy tracking. You can only do reasonable damage in close-combat... but if you're in close combat, you can't dodge far enough to avoid most of enemies counter strikes. And if you decide to roll to the side, the enemy tracking is so accurate that you have to time your dodge at the right moment or you will get hit, brutally damaged and need a precious health potion.

3- DEFLECT : very unstatisfying. It's clearly not a "shield" but it's not a parry either. You have to time PERFECTLY every deflection in order to not get fµcked. It's irritating and difficult to execute properly when enemies spam attacks or spin to win. And of course, any bad timing punishes you so heavily that you're good to run away and sip a health potion after one hit. It's kinda like the Sekiro deflect mechanic... only there is no stamina / poise / stance gauge in Thymesia, so there is neither reward nor satisfaction for deflecting with masterful timing. It's "Get good or get fµcked".

4- SUPER ARMOR : questionably balanced. Souls games have this mechanic for special moves or when an enemy is particularly massive / heavily armored. In Thymesia, you can slash an enemy around 3 times (more or less) before they start attacking you and NOTHING will stop them. It is irritating to slash them with a big claw strike and they decide to retaliate at the same moment... but they don't even flinch and brutally hit you in the face, half a second later.

To conclude my combat experience in Thymesia, I spent the whole demo (part of it anyway) hesitating all the time, wondering if I should attack right now or if I would get brutally punished for attacking at the wrong moment, knowing that I could not roll away far enough, "parry" with the right timing, or get smacked in the face because of enemy super armor that not even a frickin' nuke could interrupt.

While I'm a long time Souls games fan, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a particularly good player. Maybe my bad experience is solely due to the fact that "I suck" like gamers tend to nicely tell each others these days. Totally possible.

But if this is the type of gameplay you're aiming for, then I have to admit that you've already lost me. I'll leave your hard work in the hands of others - more persistent or talented than me - and wish you the best. Not every game is meant for everyone and it's totally fine.

(Also, I didn't even adress all of the other things : art direction, ambience, sound design, U.I, etc etc. Apologies. I'm too frustrated at the moment to get my thoughts clear about the demo in general)

❤️❤️❤️

[Envy54]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PL:

Hello dear dev team !

While I don't want to be "that" guy - this project demanded a lot of hard work - I just rage quit the demo after too many attempts against the "spear guy".

So many things exasperated me. This is the 1st time I quit a game to instantly write feedback on Steam. Unfortunalely, it had to be negative feedback.

Keep in mind that I'm a particularly raging type of player. I'm in no way, shape or form, attempting to attack you or spit on your hard work. I hope my huh... "enthusiastic" attitude will not hurt anyone.

1- ENEMY TRACKING : absurd. For testing purposes, I was sprinting at Mach 3 around the spear guy, thanks to the lock on. His thrust attacks still got me no problem... like I was standing still in front of him.

2- DODGE : also frustrating because of enemy tracking. You can only do reasonable damage in close-combat... but if you're in close combat, you can't dodge far enough to avoid most of enemies counter strikes. And if you decide to roll to the side, the enemy tracking is so accurate that you have to time your dodge at the right moment or you will get hit, brutally damaged and need a precious health potion.

3- DEFLECT : very unstatisfying. It's clearly not a "shield" but it's not a parry either. You have to time PERFECTLY every deflection in order to not get fµcked. It's irritating and difficult to execute properly when enemies spam attacks or spin to win. And of course, any bad timing punishes you so heavily that you're good to run away and sip a health potion after one hit. It's kinda like the Sekiro deflect mechanic... only there is no stamina / poise / stance gauge in Thymesia, so there is neither reward nor satisfaction for deflecting with masterful timing. It's "Get good or get fµcked".

4- SUPER ARMOR : questionably balanced. Souls games have this mechanic for special moves or when an enemy is particularly massive / heavily armored. In Thymesia, you can slash an enemy around 3 times (more or less) before they start attacking you and NOTHING will stop them. It is irritating to slash them with a big claw strike and they decide to retaliate at the same moment... but they don't even flinch and brutally hit you in the face, half a second later.

To conclude my combat experience in Thymesia, I spent the whole demo (part of it anyway) hesitating all the time, wondering if I should attack right now or if I would get brutally punished for attacking at the wrong moment, knowing that I could not roll away far enough, "parry" with the right timing, or get smacked in the face because of enemy super armor that not even a frickin' nuke could interrupt.

While I'm a long time Souls games fan, I'll be the first to admit I'm not a particularly good player. Maybe my bad experience is solely due to the fact that "I suck" like gamers tend to nicely tell each others these days. Totally possible.

But if this is the type of gameplay you're aiming for, then I have to admit that you've already lost me. I'll leave your hard work in the hands of others - more persistent or talented than me - and wish you the best. Not every game is meant for everyone and it's totally fine.

(Also, I didn't even adress all of the other things : art direction, ambience, sound design, U.I, etc etc. Apologies. I'm too frustrated at the moment to get my thoughts clear about the demo in general)

Yep, just posted my own rant/"review" (for lack of a better term) of the little bit I played of the demo as I rage quit at the spear guy. I havent rage quit a Souls-like game on "trash mobs" in the starter type area since I think Bloodborne (which was my very first Souls game ever so yeah....) but after fightings against the Greatsword Knight and then reaching the Spear Knight and basically watching him just poke pick me to death I finally went "Nope....I'm not wasting my time. If I want a feasible challenge I'll fire up Elden Ring."

[Kingace19k]

I honestly liked the demo my only issue is the spear dude and the final boss along with tracking and input latency issues. The feather mechanic doesn't seem rewarding like many people have mentioned.

[You Died]

to me the enemy is fine it just the player character is too limited in dodging i think. you have to wait a second before the next dodge which i find it very frustrating. allow us like 3 dodge to spam before that one second delay or give us a stamina bar for dodging, something like that.

[Kingace19k]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von You Died:

to me the enemy is fine it just the player character is too limited in dodging i think. you have to wait a second before the next dodge which i find it very frustrating. allow us like 3 dodge to spam before that one second delay or give us a stamina bar for dodging, something like that.

Yeah its not unfair just needs a little bit more tweaking honestly i'm doing better on Varg than the spear dude going to try him a couple more times.

[7K]

The artificial delay on the dodge is killing the fun for me, just like Elden Ring. If they are going to deviate from the souls-like formula by not having stamina bar them they should also consider removing the delay.

[MarzAttakz]

I have to agree. I was really excited about this game but playing the demo now I'm considering removing it from my wish list. It needs more than just work, the basic's of the combat system need to be rethought entirely. The camera needs to rebuilt. Consistency applied to input queues and what cancels them.

It just feels like a mess with good potential.

[KitDragonFlight]

That boss with the critical attack in the cemetary after the first checkpoint got to me. Oh man. I ended up having to deflect spam and feathers. The dodge is really off, it feels like the character is slower than the enemies and the move-queing in this game is pretty horrid. Feathers felt like it missed half the time with point blank range, I hit it as soon or just after the green light. I cannot do the deflect against the spear enemy. I am very interested in playing full release but PLEASE DEVS fix this. Not even dark souls has made me rage like this haha...

[DeathScyth3]

Too small windows, and feather sucks. As a bloodborne/sekiro player it falls short. Hope you guys can tweak this before launch date. GL :D

[InvaderJim]

agree with all things said above.

plus i feel like the spear-guy fight would have been more fun/less punishing in a wider arena. u constantly get your movement restricted by the tight space the fight is taking place in, even getting stuck on objects sometimes after "dodging", while the spear-guy has gapclosers. level-design generally didnt feel too good (might just be a demo-lvl tho).

[Mordeshkaiser]

I can say with absolute certainty that I despise the health-wound-cash in system with how high enemy Poise is in this it feels like a struggle to just get their health down to half in a timely manner without feeling like you lost half of your health and accomplished little to nothing. And in a faster action combat game time to kill is important. I don't mind a longer tough fight (The Greatsword enemy wasn't too bad once I got used to him) but when you barely have a chance to actually cash in on the wound damage you did because the enemies have so much super armor/poise it makes combat very unsatisfying. Aside from that the enemy tracking (Spear guy for example) is atrocious.. Not sure I see much of this changing though but will keep my eyes peeled on it at release cause I'm craving a baddass Plague Doctor character in a game.