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parry should have been the same as the block button and the window the same for all weapons.
- The parry works nothing like Sekiro because in that game parry and block are built into the same button meaning that the game is designed around the player ONLY parrying everything. In this game you literally have a dedicated BLOCK button that is intended to be used to block the initial attacks of a enemy and you can parry the last attack to throw them off balance (it was taught to you at the start of the game). If you are trying to perfect parry everything like Sekiro, especially if its against new movesets you have not seen yet, you are setting yourself up for punishment.
- Yes many counter sparks have different animations but the one thing you don't understand is that the STARTING frames of the parry are almost the same across all weapons/styles. I play with the Bayonet and I have zero problem timing countersparks from all 3 of my styles even if 2 of them push me forward. In fact I time my parries the SAME regardless what style I'm in and they always work. I believe you are confusing RECOVERY frames of the parry with varies to the STARTUP frames of the parry which are very similar across the board.
As with anything your frustration is trying to play the game like its Sekiro (which it is not) rather then utilizing all of the mechanics this game gives the player to get use to parry timings.
I don't even have as much time as you in the game and I have gotten down parries as none of them feel like I need to time them differently. I would argue its less an issue with the counterspark mechanics but more so how unique most enemies are in that you having to react to new moves you have not even seen yet.
There was a time when perfect parrying something in a video game was HARD, that the player had to PRACTICE to get consistent with, and the player was highly rewarded for it (one example being metal gear rising).
Then games like Sekiro came around and made it where a child who just mashes one button can perfect parry everything to make themselves feel like they are skilled at every game with a parry mechanic lol. Sekiro took a mechanic that use to be high risk, high reward and boiled it down to its most basic form where at the push of a button everyone can feel like a parry master.
So now we have a generation of players who want EVERY CORE mechanic of a game to be learn and mastered after one or two fights, rather then getting a game that does not hold the players hand, but rewards them for mastering their weapon, style, mechanic,...etc.
Ronin thankfully is of the old school approach of game design where they want to reward those who put in the time to master certain systems/mechanics, while giving other options for players who are not able to master something like the parry system.
The attack hitboxes have different timings, and they're all over the place: most of the times you have to anticipate the parry.
It's still a rythm game, the problem is there's a ton of rythms to learn.
This I agree with. The attacks the players has to parry are more varied then the actual parry timings and that is why people are getting frustrated. Which I see as a good thing because if enemies had the same attack timing from beginning to end (bosses I mean) the game would have been stale already for me.
I believe the game should have done a better job at onboarding the player into the best usage of the parry, as far to many people are trying to use the parries like its Sekiro and that is not how it works in this game.
The best thing a new player can do going into this game is using block to watch the enemies attack pattern and getting use to parrying the LAST attack. Then once they have mastered that they can level up to parrying every attack, which will happen by the time the player masters the core combat system in this game.
Yeah I agree, I even like it more the Wo Long because in Wo Long the parry timing was very lenient even though it was still satisfying.
I just think people in general need look at a games systems/mechanics as their own FIRST before they go and directly compare other games, but thats just me.
I think the parry frames are a bit too tight. It's fine for bosses and such, but when the vast majority of enemies are just dudes with random weapons, and each weapon has however many stances, it makes it unnecessarily annoying to react to hundred of different combos. Learning the moveset of enemies is way more intuitive than learning the moveset of each stance for each weapon.
The two things that are complete nonsense in my opinion, are the hitboxes of your parries, and the AI attacking while out of reach. I don't understand why they thought it was ok for enemies' attacks to be missing you mid-combo, leaving you wide open.
Something that I personally do not like, is how similar a lot of the combos are, referring to bosses mostly. They very often start the exact same way. That makes it harder than anything else to parry. You thought it was the fast combo? Too bad, it was the slow one and they start the same way.
Take Ii. He has two attack openings, where the only difference is grabbing the sword normally, and grabbing the sword the opposite way. The tell is literally a twist of the wrist. After the first attack, both of them split to two different combos. Then he also has a charge attack, where he either attacks once, or twice in succession. I never managed to spot the difference between those two. Yet somehow the Blue Demon is worse in this regard. Another boss has the same attack twice, with the second being faster.
So you would want enemies that were suctioned to you never able to get away? Positioning is everything and if you are blocking the tip of their attacks of course the last few hits should whiff.
If I'm up in their face I almost never have their attack whiff, and the more I have gotten use to how and specifically WHEN to use the counter spark it rarely happens anymore.
I don't think your suppose to be able to tell the difference lol, that is the point of the boss and it teaches the player real fast that if they keep trying to perfect parry every attack they throw out you will not get very far until they master a bosses attack pattern/timing and WHEN to parry them.
I can understand the criticism but these are bosses highly skilled with their weapons of choice, so they should have tricky attacks that can throw the player off their game. If you could learn the bosses mechanics after a few attempts it would not be an interesting boss imo.
I can't speak for you but the Blue Demon was only hard in his first fight when you were first learning how to fight him, by the time I got to him again him moveset was known and I could parry most of his attacks.
Idk maybe its just me but the varied human boss fights with the unique moves is why this game will always be so much more entertaining then a Ghost of Tushima or Shadows. In those games 99% of the bosses use the same slow as molasses attacks, but in this game it keeps the players learning and on their toes at all times. Is it frustrating sometimes? Sure but once you overcome it and your perfect parrying that attack string that kept hitting you it feels all too good ;)
You misunderstood. It would be fine if when an attack missed, the rest of their attacks missed me too. ALAS, that is scarcely the case, cause all attacks propel characters forward. They miss an attack mid-combo, and while I am stuck in parry animation, their next one hits. It happens constantly, and I do mean constantly.
Sometimes their first attack misses, cause the AI somehow misjudged our distance, and the next one lands just fine. Am I suppose to know the bosses initiated his attack 5 pixels away and I should had stood still? Most often, parrying their first couple of attacks pushes me away just enough for the 3rd to miss and the fourth to hit. In rare cases, they just miss while I am right in their face. I think the parry animation causes that. All of this I would describe as complete bollocks.
It would be very interesting to me if the devs did not intend for us to be able to tell the difference between the bosses' attacks, but it would be rather weird if that was the case. I parry every attack, cause it's far superior to dodging and blocking. You could argue that is not the way it's meant to be played, but since we are on a thread about the problems of parrying, this is certainly one of them. It was the first time in my life I though my screen was too small, while trying to keep tabs on Ii's wrist. This is way beyond trying to throw me of my game. I have to either parry once, or spam it twice, there is not wait and see.
I thought I had mastered the Blue Demon too, until they put him next to Ii and zoomed out the camera. Now I had to watch two guys from further afar, and 4/5 of Blue Demon's combos start with the same two attacks. Yet the number one issue in that fight, was that so many of his attacks kept missing mid-combo. It was the perfect convergence of my issues.
If your "stuck in parry animation" that means you miss timed your parry plain and simple and you are getting punished for it by the game. Also if you miss time your parry your not fully stuck in an animation because you can blade flash to cancel the ending animations of the parry, with this you an even use the counterspark attack as a heavy attack in between combos.
I have had EXACTLY what you explained happen to me and its always because I mistimed a counterspark, which I expect to get punished for. Lets be honest here, the player should not feel good for missing a parry, and they should get punished, its just this game makes sure you know you done messed up way more then others. In Nioh if you run out of Ki or your guard is broken you can recover pretty fast, in Wo Long if you miss a parry you are barely punished, in this game if you mistime a parry OR miss manage you KI you are in for a world of hurt lol.
Well then many Souls games are weird, Nioh is weird, Wo Long is weird,...etc because all of those games have bosses that have moves that either have the same start up to attacks to confuse the player OR they blend them together through smooth animations to throw the player off (many complained about this in ER for example with how aggressive the bosses were).
This is done in many games, its just this game punishes the player much harder for bad play and that is just how the game is. It happened in Wo Long with many bosses but if you missed a parry in Wo Long the player recovered A LOT faster, and was not comboed for their mistakes.
In this game the player AND the enemies are on a pretty even playing field. By this I mean once you the player understand a bosses mechanics and know how to manage KI, offence/defense you can bully the bosses into submission just like you can in Nioh.
Now the opposite is true too. If the player is miss timing their parries, constantly running out of Ki,..etc the boss WILL take advantage of that and punish you HARD. If you run out of Ki your sitting there like a stump on a log until your ki refills, If you mistime a counterspark you are thrown off your rhythm and you either will have to wait for the full animation recovery OR you can blade flash to end the animation quicker to get back in your flow.
I personally think most of these criticisms boil down to this game really punishing the player for bad play (missing parries, not managing Ki, using wrong styles,..etc), when compared to other games in the genre. Some people will NOT like this and some people will look at it as a challenge to overcome and I personally im in the latter of that.
I don't know what else there is to say. For some the combat just clicks after a while (which it did for me) and they know when they are playing bad that they will get punished for it. For others if it still has not clicked yet they will keep running into the same frustrations and blaming the game instead of realizing they are making many mistakes in a row causing them to have that frustrating experience.