To help with parry timing

[Littlefatcat]

I noticed some people struggling with parrying, myself included. I was messing around with game settings and found that combat was more enjoyable if you set lock on marker to "only show critical hits/assassinations." It makes it easier to see the white flash before their red attack hits. The white circle made it hard for me to see it. Another thing that could help with on screen distractions (but might make boss fights harder) is turning off enemy gauges. I wish there was a setting to keep it on for boss fights only. I hope this helps

[causality]

ITT: people find out about skill expression and you have more options than just trading hits with bosses and heal spamming. I don't even have healing items on my loadout because healing slows down your gameplay.

[Guldo]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

You are pretending as if combat in a game can't be deep and complex unless it is 'perfect parry' oriented. Which is complete and utter nonsense of course. Not everybody likes to play Guitar Hero.

No one is pretending anything also I never said this games combat depth comes 100% from the perfect parry system, but it is very satisfying to master and flows well into the style switching, usage on marital Arts,...etc. The depth of this game comes from utilizing ALL of the systems together in a free flowing state.

The fact that you compare this game to guitar hero shows you do not understand the core systems of this game and how to properly utilize them altogether.

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

Also most people aren't going to sink 1000 hours into this game, there is nothing wrong with it if they more or less master parrying around 50-70 hour mark. Like pretty much every other game that came before this.

Who said anything about needing anywhere near 1000hrs to understand how to parry stuff in this game?

I don't even fully understand what you mean with this comment because if you really think it will take 1k hrs to master the parry system in this game you truly are just not good at video games period. The parry system in general clicked with me about 15-25hrs into he game, and the funny thing is that it took me LONGER to fully understand the Nioh stance/flux system and how to flow between each stance conserving the most Ki as possible.

Its actually very simple how the player should treat parry in this game. If you miss a parry be prepared to get punished for it, if you perfect parry attacks be prepared to get huge rewards from it. Its not rocket science how parry works in this game. Its pretty much as simple as, STOP TRYING TO PARRY EVERYTHING (when you suck) AND USE THE BLOCK BUTTON to better time your parries.

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

Considering how many different styles there are in this game, it is almost masochistic to think that it would be fun to learn parry timings for every sequence(and yes enemies casually throw 4-5 hit combos all the time).

This is a plain LIE from people who do not understand how the system works. 99% of the countersparks have the EXACT SAME PARRY FRAME/WINDOW. However if you miss time that parry window you will have to deal with the recovery frames of that attack which DO vary in lenght from weapon/style.

What you are spewing here is a MYTH you made up in your own mind, there are NOT 30+ different parry timings depending on the style, weapon,...etc lol. How hard is it to understand that the entire animation for a counterspark is NOT the entirety of the parry frames?

I will explain it again for the simple minded. Counterspark is a dual purpose move. It acts as a parry for its first few startup frames (same for every weapon/style) and then it acts as an attack after that point. If you keep missing a parry its a player issue and the game WILL punish you hard for it.

I know this to be true because I have actively been using the the Ally system in missions so I will have access to 3-4 different weapon types at any given time. When i quick swap to an ally that has a completely different weapon/style/counterspark, my parrying timing is the EXACT SAME and I never miss parries due to the weapon type.

I really don't know how much more I can say to get it through your thick skulls. You are speaking like you understand how a core mechanic works yet you actually don't know anything of what your taking about.

most people dont have perfect timing and that doesnt mean they are bad at games.

some people have better fine motor skills than others and thats genetic. there is no magic pill where you can improve that with practice.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Guldo:

most people dont have perfect timing and that doesnt mean they are bad at games.

some people have better fine motor skills than others and thats genetic. there is no magic pill where you can improve that with practice.

I don't have perfect timing either, nor did I say I did lol. I simply said that when a person understands how the parry system and its timing works they will realize that 99% of their missed parries are because THEY missed them not because the game mechanics are bad as you claim.

I really don't get frustrated as I did at the beginning because now I KNOW what I'm sucking at rather then blindly blaming the game for my lack of knowledge and patience.

The real reason why people are having such issues with parries has nothing to do with the parries themselves, it has more to do with the freak ton of variety between attacks, bosses, timings...etc. The player will not be able to pop into a brand new boss they have never fought and perfect parry everything, they would have to feel things out and see the patterns first and some people lack the patience for that it seems.

[Guldo]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Guldo:

most people dont have perfect timing and that doesnt mean they are bad at games.

some people have better fine motor skills than others and thats genetic. there is no magic pill where you can improve that with practice.

I don't have perfect timing either, nor did I say I did lol. I simply said that when a person understands how the parry system and its timing works they will realize that 99% of their missed parries are because THEY missed then not because the game mechanics are bad as you claim.

I really don't get frustrated as I did at the beginning because now I KNOW what I'm sucking at rather then blindly blaming the game for my lack of knowledge and patience.

The real reason why people are having such issues with parries has nothing to do with the parries themselves, it has more to do with the freak ton of variety between attacks, bosses, timings...etc. The player will not be able to pop into a brand new boss they have never fought and perfect parry everything, they would have to feel things out and see the patterns first and some people lack the patience for that it seems.

or some people like me have delayed reaction speeds and they compensate by button mashing.

hell if i didnt half of my regular attacks would probably never come out from pressing the button too late.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Guldo:

or some people like me have delayed reaction speeds and they compensate by button mashing.

hell if i didnt half of my regular attacks would probably never come out from pressing the button too late.

This is true, and while you may not think your agreeing with me, you finally admitted that the game is designed the way it is and you (among others) just don't like how punishing it is in regard to parries.

Its not that the system is "bad" it simply hard to get down the flow of combat and some people don't want to invest time into learning the depth of a games combat system. For me that is why I enjoy TN games so much because there is a lot to learn and master compared to other action RPGs

Hey at least you got your money worth in terms of money dollars per hour.

[Guldo]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Guldo:

or some people like me have delayed reaction speeds and they compensate by button mashing.

hell if i didnt half of my regular attacks would probably never come out from pressing the button too late.

This is true, and while you may not think your agreeing with me, you finally admitted that the game is designed the way it is and you (among others) just don't like how punishing it is in regard to parries.

Its not that the system is "bad" it simply hard to get down the flow of combat and some people don't want to invest time into learning the depth of a games combat system. For me that is why I enjoy TN games so much because there is a lot to learn and master compared to other action RPGs

Hey at least you got your money worth in terms of money dollars per hour.

what you dont seem to understand is there comes a point where no amount of practice will help.

for me its 2 choices wich leads to getting hit when theres a tight parry window. either pressing the button too late or trying to compensate by button mashing wich also doesnt work.

some people can do it like its 2nd nature like parrying all of chun lis hits from her super in street fighter.

its actually called the daigo challenge and the overwhelming majority of people can not do it.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Guldo:

what you dont seem to understand is there comes a point where no amount of practice will help.

for me its 2 choices wich leads to getting hit when theres a tight parry window. either pressing the button too late or trying to compensate by button mashing wich also doesnt work.

some people can do it like its 2nd nature like parrying all of chun lis hits from her super in street fighter.

its actually called the daigo challenge and the overwhelming majority of people can not do it.

I 100% understand what your saying. Every person has that point where complexity is too much in a game or even in other hobbies, but that does not make said thing objectively bad because the individual has hit their personal limit or a wall.

I can dig up post after post from souls vets who trashed Nioh due to its complex systems and it was because they were taking their souls-like mentality of dodge rolling everything into a game that plays nothing like that. You can still find posts of people who genuinely gave up playing Sekiro because of how they could not get through some of the final bosses.

Heck you can even go back further to infamously challenging games like DMC3 or Ninja Gaiden Black where they were so hard for many people that they just could not beat them (I could never beat DMC3 lol). Yet those games are considered some of the best in the character action genre of games.

I believe its you who is not understanding that not every game is meant to for every players skill level and there are a few ways an individual can deal with games like that.

- They can play them until they reach their limit and they are not having fun (like you said you were moving on to something else).
- They can pushing themselves and overcome a challenge that they once thought they could never meet and really dive deep into the games system/mechanics (I'm in this camp).
- They can realize that challenging mechanically deep combat driven games are not for them and just steer clear of them entirely.

I'm simply arguing against your point that the games parry is bad because its hard for some people, because by that logic some of the best action games would also be "bad" knowing most of the people who played them did not even beat them lol.

[Guldo]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Guldo:

what you dont seem to understand is there comes a point where no amount of practice will help.

for me its 2 choices wich leads to getting hit when theres a tight parry window. either pressing the button too late or trying to compensate by button mashing wich also doesnt work.

some people can do it like its 2nd nature like parrying all of chun lis hits from her super in street fighter.

its actually called the daigo challenge and the overwhelming majority of people can not do it.

I 100% understand what your saying. Every person has that point where complexity is too much in a game or even in other hobbies, but that does not make said thing objectively bad because the individual has hit their personal limit or a wall.

I can dig up post after post from souls vets who trashed Nioh due to its complex systems and it was because they were taking their souls-like mentality of dodge rolling everything into a game that plays nothing like that. You can still find posts of people who genuinely gave up playing Sekiro because of how they could not get through some of the final bosses.

Heck you can even go back further to infamously challenging games like DMC3 or Ninja Gaiden Black where they were so hard for many people that they just could not beat them (I could never beat DMC3 lol). Yet those games are considered some of the best in the character action genre of games.

I believe its you who is not understanding that not every game is meant to for every players skill level and there are a few ways an individual can deal with games like that.

- They can play them until they reach their limit and they are not having fun (like you said you were moving on to something else).
- They can pushing themselves and overcome a challenge that they once thought they could never meet and really dive deep into the games system/mechanics (I'm in this camp).
- They can realize that challenging mechanically deep combat driven games are not for them and just steer clear of them entirely.

I'm simply arguing against your point that the games parry is bad because its hard for some people, because by that logic some of the best action games would also be "bad" knowing most of the people who played them did not even beat them lol.

where your logic kind of falls apart is i have beaten the ninja gaiden games and i never parryed enemies. same with devil may cry 3 and the rest. also ki pulsing in nioh is stupidly easy and does not require frame perfect timing unlike parrys in rise of the ronin.

i avoid frame perfect parry timing mechanics like the plague.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Guldo:

where your logic kind of falls apart is i have beaten the ninja gaiden games and i never parryed enemies. same with devil may cry 3 and the rest. also ki pulsing in nioh is stupidly easy and does not require frame perfect timing unlike parrys in rise of the ronin.

i avoid frame perfect parry timing mechanics like the plague.

You missed the point entirely. I was making the point that other games that have very steep learning curves through different systems/mechanics are not considered "bad" just because an individual is capped in terms of skill or plain old reactions.

If your last statement is true then you have wasted nearly 80hrs of your life playing a game with a CORE mechanic you already knew was going to be in the game lol.

So once again this is an individual problem and not a game problem.

[Guldo]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Guldo:

where your logic kind of falls apart is i have beaten the ninja gaiden games and i never parryed enemies. same with devil may cry 3 and the rest. also ki pulsing in nioh is stupidly easy and does not require frame perfect timing unlike parrys in rise of the ronin.

i avoid frame perfect parry timing mechanics like the plague.

You missed the point entirely. I was making the point that other games that have very steep learning curves through different systems/mechanics are not considered "bad" just because an individual is capped in terms of skill or plain old reactions.

If your last statement is true then you have wasted nearly 80hrs of your life playing a game with a CORE mechanic you already knew was going to be in the game lol.

So once again this is an individual problem and not a game problem.

i wouldnt really call it a core mechanic when the game can be beaten without it. people have even been going through midnight difficulty without it as well using a dual katana setup.

[Aria Athena]

Originally posted by Guldo:

i wouldnt really call it a core mechanic when the game can be beaten without it. people have even been going through midnight difficulty without it as well using a dual katana setup.

You can play souls games without dodging too, but good luck claiming it's not a core mechanic.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Guldo:

Originally posted by Mike:

You missed the point entirely. I was making the point that other games that have very steep learning curves through different systems/mechanics are not considered "bad" just because an individual is capped in terms of skill or plain old reactions.

If your last statement is true then you have wasted nearly 80hrs of your life playing a game with a CORE mechanic you already knew was going to be in the game lol.

So once again this is an individual problem and not a game problem.

i wouldnt really call it a core mechanic when the game can be beaten without it. people have even been going through midnight difficulty without it as well using a dual katana setup.

Mh... not without the proper gear you aren't. Higher enemies will break your ki easily. I presume you mean people utiziling the "Hit me and I'll counter" move? Personally, if you don't want to counterspark in this game, you're just hurting your own experience. It is a core mechanic because it is part of your base kit and something designed to keep the combat back and forth. I would love to see someone beat Tesshu without countersparking though. Man is a monster on midnight.

[Guldo]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Guldo:

i wouldnt really call it a core mechanic when the game can be beaten without it. people have even been going through midnight difficulty without it as well using a dual katana setup.

Mh... not without the proper gear you aren't. Higher enemies will break your ki easily. I presume you mean people utiziling the "Hit me and I'll counter" move? Personally, if you don't want to counterspark in this game, you're just hurting your own experience. It is a core mechanic because it is part of your base kit and something designed to keep the combat back and forth. I would love to see someone beat Tesshu without countersparking though. Man is a monster on midnight.

i would imagine a video exists out there of him being cheesed without counterspark.

people were already talking about going through midnight difficulty just fine without counter sparking on reddit.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Guldo:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Mh... not without the proper gear you aren't. Higher enemies will break your ki easily. I presume you mean people utiziling the "Hit me and I'll counter" move? Personally, if you don't want to counterspark in this game, you're just hurting your own experience. It is a core mechanic because it is part of your base kit and something designed to keep the combat back and forth. I would love to see someone beat Tesshu without countersparking though. Man is a monster on midnight.

i would imagine a video exists out there of him being cheesed without counterspark.

people were already talking about going through midnight difficulty just fine without counter sparking on reddit.

Talking and showing are two different things. I'm on midnight, blocking destroys me ki from specific attacks. Dodging is hit or miss, countersparking is definitely the design choice. GRANTED you can get like 50% guard reduction for ki if you build for it (Once more, gear dependent.) but countersparking is free.

Also, the reason I specifically said Tesshu, is the man doesn't stop. He has low cost ki moves and keeps on boppin until you lower his ki with counter sparks.

[Guldo]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Guldo:

i would imagine a video exists out there of him being cheesed without counterspark.

people were already talking about going through midnight difficulty just fine without counter sparking on reddit.

Talking and showing are two different things. I'm on midnight, blocking destroys me ki from specific attacks. Dodging is hit or miss, countersparking is definitely the design choice. GRANTED you can get like 50% guard reduction for ki if you build for it (Once more, gear dependent.) but countersparking is free.

Also, the reason I specifically said Tesshu, is the man doesn't stop. He has low cost ki moves and keeps on boppin until you lower his ki with counter sparks.

i never block. i just dodge and spam my most op moves until they die.

for aggressive enemies just take those pills and tank the hits while spamming powerful knock down moves.

greatsword has a move that was doing 10K damage for me and im not even maxed out yet.

basicly it goes something like this. pills, ki blaze then spam the crap out of nukes while getting hit.