Too much trial and error

[Senki]

I love this game but the dojo training really showcases how excessively trial and error this combat system is.

Not really talking about just winning the fights, that part is easy but getting master rank is very annoying. So many delays, bad telegraphs and weird parry timings/hitboxes with all the weapons.

[ForceKin]

I actually kind of like the way the dojos handle it. It trains you to know the moveset of a specific weapon/style so that when you later encounter it, you'll be prepared for it, which I find somewhat realistic and actually pretty rewarding. Achieving the master rank is super satisfying as well, knowing that you've developed the skill and knowledge to absolutely body someone using the moveset you've trained against. Maybe I'll feel differently after a few more dojo sessions going for other masteries, but so far I'm really digging it.

[VeraelHasta]

I mean... that is the point of the dojo fight - to master fighting against a given type of opponent?

[Senki]

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

I mean... that is the point of the dojo fight - to master fighting against a given type of opponent?

Sure but I don't think the fights are very well designed with this combat system. I don't mind some trial and error but some of those fights have way too much.

One of the dual sword guys has a dash red attack that I never managed to parry because the timing and hitbox you need to hit it are so damn weird. I still managed to get master rank but yeah it just feels dumb.

They need to chill out with the excessive delays or weird timings, we don't need every game to become Elden Ring. I would rather have to master my skill instead of playing a memory game.

[n1lknarf]

You're not supposed to counter everything.
They advice to block everything until the last moves in the combos (I counter everything).
You can use unarmed attacks to interrupt enemy combos (the Palm Off skill is broken)

[ForceKin]

Originally posted by n1lknarf:

You're not supposed to counter everything.
They advice to block everything until the last moves in the combos (I counter everything).
You can use unarmed attacks to interrupt enemy combos (the Palm Off skill is broken)

That's true, but it seems like earning the mastery rank in the dojo all but requires being able to perfectly parry every attack, at least in my experience so far.

[Simbolic]

Originally posted by Senki:

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

I mean... that is the point of the dojo fight - to master fighting against a given type of opponent?

Sure but I don't think the fights are very well designed with this combat system. I don't mind some trial and error but some of those fights have way too much.

One of the dual sword guys has a dash red attack that I never managed to parry because the timing and hitbox you need to hit it are so damn weird. I still managed to get master rank but yeah it just feels dumb.

They need to chill out with the excessive delays or weird timings, we don't need every game to become Elden Ring. I would rather have to master my skill instead of playing a memory game.

Worse are the giant enemies with clubs, they use two identical charge attacks. One he charges quickly at you while they other he charges but does a spin attack. So either way your screwed. If thinking of parrying one when ends up being the other. Since can't tell when the starting animation looks so close to the same for both attacks.

[Littlefatcat]

Originally posted by Senki:

I love this game but the dojo training really showcases how excessively trial and error this combat system is.

Not really talking about just winning the fights, that part is easy but getting master rank is very annoying. So many delays, bad telegraphs and weird parry timings/hitboxes with all the weapons.

You don't have to parry everything. There is this thing called dodging and sometimes it puts you in a position to strike your enemy from their side or rear...

[Senki]

Originally posted by Littlefatcat:

Originally posted by Senki:

I love this game but the dojo training really showcases how excessively trial and error this combat system is.

Not really talking about just winning the fights, that part is easy but getting master rank is very annoying. So many delays, bad telegraphs and weird parry timings/hitboxes with all the weapons.

You don't have to parry everything. There is this thing called dodging and sometimes it puts you in a position to strike your enemy from their side or rear...

Parrying gets you a lot of points in dojo missions though. Not to mention that killing them faster also gets you more points and parrying helps with that as well.

The normal gameplay is fine but putting a ranking on this combat system really starts to show how bs some of the timings are.

[Littlefatcat]

Originally posted by Senki:

Originally posted by Littlefatcat:

You don't have to parry everything. There is this thing called dodging and sometimes it puts you in a position to strike your enemy from their side or rear...

Parrying gets you a lot of points in dojo missions though. Not to mention that killing them faster also gets you more points and parrying helps with that as well.

The normal gameplay is fine but putting a ranking on this combat system really starts to show how bs some of the timings are.

That's one way to do it. It's more about not needing to use your medicine because you avoided getting hit. Are you talking about getting master level or just points for online rankings? The OP was talking about master rank and that involves not getting hit so dodging is a great way to not get hit. Only parrying when you know you can is better. The movement is so much more free than Nioh or Wo Long. In Wo Long you couldn't really dodge a lot of red attacks

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Senki:

Originally posted by VeraelHasta:

I mean... that is the point of the dojo fight - to master fighting against a given type of opponent?

Sure but I don't think the fights are very well designed with this combat system. I don't mind some trial and error but some of those fights have way too much.

One of the dual sword guys has a dash red attack that I never managed to parry because the timing and hitbox you need to hit it are so damn weird. I still managed to get master rank but yeah it just feels dumb.

They need to chill out with the excessive delays or weird timings, we don't need every game to become Elden Ring. I would rather have to master my skill instead of playing a memory game.

That's because it isn't timing based, you watch the animation, not anticipate the timing. That particular move can come out fast, or he can hold it for an extra moment. Once you get enemies to 50% they say some weird phrase and they "Can" change up their moveset, but it isn't always. just wait till you get to the spear guy, he makes the dual blade look like a joke xD.

[Senki]

Originally posted by Littlefatcat:

Originally posted by Senki:

Parrying gets you a lot of points in dojo missions though. Not to mention that killing them faster also gets you more points and parrying helps with that as well.

The normal gameplay is fine but putting a ranking on this combat system really starts to show how bs some of the timings are.

That's one way to do it. It's more about not needing to use your medicine because you avoided getting hit. Are you talking about getting master level or just points for online rankings? The OP was talking about master rank and that involves not getting hit so dodging is a great way to not get hit. Only parrying when you know you can is better. The movement is so much more free than Nioh or Wo Long. In Wo Long you couldn't really dodge a lot of red attacks

In wo long you didn't need to dodge red attacks because they were very well telegraphed

and yeah I only mean master rank in the dojo not online stuff. I haven't tested if I can get it by simply guarding and dodging with minimal parrying but I'll take your word for it

[Senki]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Senki:

Sure but I don't think the fights are very well designed with this combat system. I don't mind some trial and error but some of those fights have way too much.

One of the dual sword guys has a dash red attack that I never managed to parry because the timing and hitbox you need to hit it are so damn weird. I still managed to get master rank but yeah it just feels dumb.

They need to chill out with the excessive delays or weird timings, we don't need every game to become Elden Ring. I would rather have to master my skill instead of playing a memory game.

That's because it isn't timing based, you watch the animation, not anticipate the timing. That particular move can come out fast, or he can hold it for an extra moment. Once you get enemies to 50% they say some weird phrase and they "Can" change up their moveset, but it isn't always. just wait till you get to the spear guy, he makes the dual blade look like a joke xD.

watching the animation is not enough for some of the moves

there's that one guy that keeps his sword sheathed and then can either attack instantly or delay it a lot, you straight up have to memorize some of these things

Also if you talk about the spear guy that changes to katana after half health, I got master rank there as well and seemed easier than the dual sword one honestly. It seemed really clunky to parry with a greatsword though because he kept missing me in the spear form so I switched to katana

[Littlefatcat]

Originally posted by Senki:

Originally posted by Littlefatcat:

That's one way to do it. It's more about not needing to use your medicine because you avoided getting hit. Are you talking about getting master level or just points for online rankings? The OP was talking about master rank and that involves not getting hit so dodging is a great way to not get hit. Only parrying when you know you can is better. The movement is so much more free than Nioh or Wo Long. In Wo Long you couldn't really dodge a lot of red attacks

In wo long you didn't need to dodge red attacks because they were very well telegraphed

and yeah I only mean master rank in the dojo not online stuff. I haven't tested if I can get it by simply guarding and dodging with minimal parrying but I'll take your word for it

It sounds like your approach to fighting is stand in place and try to parry everything and then throw the controller when the ai is able to beat this tactic.

[Senki]

Originally posted by Littlefatcat:

Originally posted by Senki:

In wo long you didn't need to dodge red attacks because they were very well telegraphed

and yeah I only mean master rank in the dojo not online stuff. I haven't tested if I can get it by simply guarding and dodging with minimal parrying but I'll take your word for it

It sounds like your approach to fighting is stand in place and try to parry everything and then throw the controller when the ai is able to beat this tactic.

The game literally told me that countersparks and how fast I kill the enemies are factors for getting master rank, I simply tried to get the most amount of points by doing that.

And it works, I managed to get master rank for every fight until now. The issue is that it feels too trial and error with how the attacks are timed and telegraphed.

When I miss some of these attacks I don't think ''oh wow my bad'', I think ''why would you make the timing and delays so stupid?''. In NIoh 2 and Wo Long I never felt like that. It feels like they're just trying to copy Elden Ring's design of ''try to bait and fool players as much as possible''.

[Littlefatcat]

Originally posted by Senki:

Originally posted by Littlefatcat:

It sounds like your approach to fighting is stand in place and try to parry everything and then throw the controller when the ai is able to beat this tactic.

The game literally told me that countersparks and how fast I kill the enemies are factors for getting master rank, I simply tried to get the most amount of points by doing that.

And it works, I managed to get master rank for every fight until now. The issue is that it feels too trial and error with how the attacks are timed and telegraphed.

When I miss some of these attacks I don't think ''oh wow my bad'', I think ''why would you make the timing and delays so stupid?''. In NIoh 2 and Wo Long I never felt like that. It feels like they're just trying to copy Elden Ring's design of ''try to bait and fool players as much as possible''.

I've been countersparking and dodging and getting master rank. Just practice more.

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