My grievences about combat

[Aria Athena]

Parrying and Countersparking are fine on their own, but in Ronin these mechanics have not been tightly implemented. There are a ton of weapons, stances, combos, and hitboxes for the same actions, and it doesn't feel like they have all been properly tested. As a result, things keep failing. I am going to list my issues in no particular order, and then have Mike tell me how they are all user related errors. I am at the dojo now, and fighting all those bosses again on repeat really highlighted my problems.

1) The attacks are often very fast, the parry frames few, yet there is input delay. The combat is at the point where a couple of frames actually do count. This is very common btw, but in most games it becomes rarely an issue.

2) The red aura tells you an attack is unblockable, while obscuring the enemy's animations, and the flash tells you nothing consistently. Not when you should parry, not when the attack is about to hit and not when the attack is about to begin. To properly parry red attacks you have to follow the enemies' movement, as always, but now there is red aura in the way and an inconsistent flash to confuse you. I don't understand why it's implemented this way, when the flash's sole purpose is to show you when to parry. Of course people are having trouble understanding when to parry, they are following an inconsistent indicator.

3) Combos/animations are way too similar. They very often start with the same 2-3 attacks, and then split to up to 3 different combos, one of which requires instant parry follow up, and the others being delayed. Other combos start with almost the exact same animations, to the point someone said you are not supposed to know what they are doing. Some have the same attack twice, but one of them is faster. I am not just saying a few bosses have such a combo, I am saying most bosses have like 4 iterations of this. The tell sometimes comes down to literally a twist of the wrist, which is not even always visible cause of the

4) camera and lock-feature. You character locks-on the enemy, mostly, but the camera certainly doesn't. It kinda tries, I think. It doesn't even hold relative positions, or even the enemy on screen. Sometimes you character is obscuring the enemy, other times the enemy is on your left all of a sudden, while the camera keeps moving, somewhat trying to reposition. Meanwhile, that wrist you need to keep an eye on, to know if you should parry once or twice, is on the other side and not visible. I need to emphasize that you are locked-on, it's not like you can adjust it manually, unless you unlock and relock. You can always play without lock-on, tell me how that goes.

Also, the red flash the game expects you to pay attention to, sometimes happens off screen, cause the enemy jumped high in the air, with half of him out of screen, cause the camera didn't follow. During the first fight with the blade twin, she has a zig-zag charge attack, which half the time goes off screen as well.

On its own, this is a minor issue, cause in what game such as this the camera doesn't screw you occasionally? But the enemy is on your size, the combos similar, the animations subtle as ♥♥♥♥ and the parry frames few.

5) Enemies quite often miss you with their attacks, and you are left exposed during parry animation. This can happen in a few different ways, but one of them is mid-combo while in the boss' face. You go for the parry and you miss each other, even if you are in kissing distance. Needless to say, you get hit by the next attack in the combo. Shusaku Chiba is by far the worse culprit so far, the amount of times he misses is staggering. This is by far the worst issue for me, and I think it's insane it's in a game such as this. It's probably as I said, a ton of weapons, stances, combos, and hitboxes, and some miss-matches slipped through the cracks. Dual katanas btw, in case you are wondering.

6) Final issue, and again probably related to weapon/enemy combinations. After breaking their stance, sometimes the animation of the execution doesn't reach the enemy, you are locked in position, and usually miss the time frame. For example, Kimenzan, dual katanas, the execution starts with an upward strike with both blades, and sometimes doesn't reach him. You see the red circle, you press the button and you somehow fail. That's not as often, but against the enemies that it happens, it happens quite consistently.

Maybe I picked the weapon with the most hitbox issues.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

Originally posted by Voxman:

RotR is closer to Sekiro in that regard. Sekiro has a prosthetic and some good consumables, but you still generally rely on your skills.

It works in Sekiro because gameplay is simple, and prosthetic tools are just support items that you may or may not use, makes certain encounters easier but that's it. You can play the game and finish it without using a prosthetic tool once.
Plus the story, world design and boss encounters are on a different realm compared to Rotr.

Originally posted by Voxman:

Input reading? Take a sip from the estus flask in Elden Ring. Now that's input reading. It's almost nonexistent in RotR.

It's more outrageous in ROTR. Enemies who are preoccupied with allies will often change their behavior based on what weapon you pull even behind their back. They became insanely agressive the moment you try to heal, and again, they always react to the input, before even the animation comes out.

It's like the “human resources” meme. ER also requires memorization of attack patterns due to delayed attacks. Why is this suddenly so critical in RotR?

False equivalence. ER is not a forced parry game. That's why.

Most parry games just require you to hit parry right before the enemies attack hits you. From what i'm experiencing In RoTR your weapon model during counterspark must make contact with the opponents weapon model so not only is timing important but distance as well as i've found that with some enemies you will never be able to parry their attack if you are too close or a little too far even if the timing is the same. It doesn't help that the devs built a red herring into this with the red flash, using that as a hint for when to parry will just get you hit.

Also ♥♥♥♥ Dojo Okubo, utter cancer.

[Lahoo Eckbert]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

It works in Sekiro because gameplay is simple, and prosthetic tools are just support items that you may or may not use, makes certain encounters easier but that's it. You can play the game and finish it without using a prosthetic tool once.
Plus the story, world design and boss encounters are on a different realm compared to Rotr.



It's more outrageous in ROTR. Enemies who are preoccupied with allies will often change their behavior based on what weapon you pull even behind their back. They became insanely agressive the moment you try to heal, and again, they always react to the input, before even the animation comes out.


False equivalence. ER is not a forced parry game. That's why.

Most parry games just require you to hit parry right before the enemies attack hits you. From what i'm experiencing In RoTR your weapon model during counterspark must make contact with the opponent weapon model so not only is timing important but distance as well as i've found that with some enemies you will never be able to parry their attack if you are too close or a little too far even if the timing is the same. It doesn't help that the devs built a red herring into this with the red flash, using that as a hint for when to parry will just get you hit.

Also ♥♥♥♥ Dojo Okubo, utter cancer.

Yes, that's the problem. Parry timings vary based on weapon and some other factors like stance and distance. Parry window is extremely unforgiving too. If you miss a parry, you usually don't get a second chance and enemies have way too many chain attacks that either are a part of the red attack or might just get added to it.

In midnight difficulty you fight enemies in random parts of the map, that also becomes a part of the problem since you can't memorize the battlefield like you do in Sekiro for example. Elevation, and your surroundings can effect your perception and parry, and most importantly they tend to break camera which is crucial to being able to detect what your opponent is doing.

Not gonna lie, game feels like an indie game on the technical side.

[Voxman]

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

It works in Sekiro because gameplay is simple, and prosthetic tools are just support items that you may or may not use, makes certain encounters easier but that's it...

You know, if this was a DS subreddit you'd get git gud, and here I might suggest lowering the difficulty to easy so you can hit the timings. /s

It's not about Sekiro being a masterpiece. It's about souls having ways to trivialize certain aspects of the game, but the number of those ways can vary greatly and Sekiro has noticeably fewer of them.

RotR has more of them than Sekiro, but the player is still not freed from the core mechanics of the game, which in itself is not a flaw.

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

They became insanely agressive the moment you try to heal, and again, they always react to the input, before even the animation comes out.

After doesn't mean in consequence. Enemies in RotR are very aggressive, whether you heal or not. Maybe it's just my personal way of playing, but I haven't encountered what you're describing.

I.e., if you go ranged, enemies either get close or do a ranged attack. Most bosses have a clear pattern of behavior that takes distance into account rather than anything else.

So what are we talking about? Can you attach a video?

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

False equivalence. ER is not a forced parry game. That's why.

ER creates a similar situation because it doesn't allow you to act reactively due to the counter-intuitive, delayed pattern of a series of attacks, due to insane dodge timings (like with Waterfowl Dance), etc.

The point is not parrying per se, but memorizing patterns.

[Lahoo Eckbert]

Originally posted by Voxman:

After doesn't mean in consequence. Enemies in RotR are very aggressive, whether you heal or not. Maybe it's just my personal way of playing, but I haven't encountered what you're describing.
I.e., if you go ranged, enemies either get close or do a ranged attack. Most bosses have a clear pattern of behavior that takes distance into account rather than anything else.

So what are we talking about? Can you attach a video?

I don't know how to record and attach a video but I'll give you a very simple example. Enemy is preoccupied with an ally and I pull out the rifle and aim and they immediately dodge.
They do similar stuff on 1on1 too, for example the moment you hold the button(for a charge martial art) they immediately go for an unblockable grab.

ER creates a similar situation because it doesn't allow you to act reactively due to the counter-intuitive, delayed pattern of a series of attacks, due to insane dodge timings (like with Waterfowl Dance), etc.

The point is not parrying per se, but memorizing patterns.

No, the point is, this becoming an issue or not.
It's not as big of an issue in ER because dodge gives iframes and leaves more room for error. You can also block most attacks.
Parrying is never the only option, it is just one option and you have better alternatives.

[Voxman]

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

Enemy is preoccupied with an ally and I pull out the rifle and aim and they immediately dodge.
They do similar stuff on 1on1 too, for example the moment you hold the button(for a charge martial art) they immediately go for an unblockable grab.

Checked a few times, they sometimes block shots - especially if they switch to you, but it's not something that happens all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTy-qV_Y1k
It's about the same with charged MAs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0_Yb9F82G4
There really isn't much “bad” input reading in this game. What it may look like is the result of aggressive enemies and probably poor choice of windows for healing, charged MAs, etc.

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

It's not as big of an issue in ER because dodge gives iframes and leaves more room for error. You can also block most attacks.
Parrying is never the only option, it is just one option and you have better alternatives.

Generally, here you can block most attacks and dodge a series of attacks with single roll.

But I'm not saying ER is about parrying or RotR is about rolling. It's just that in both cases, if you don't go into cheese territory, you need to memorize attack patterns, though not for the exact same reasons.

[ultimatelubu]

Originally posted by Voxman:

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

Enemy is preoccupied with an ally and I pull out the rifle and aim and they immediately dodge.
They do similar stuff on 1on1 too, for example the moment you hold the button(for a charge martial art) they immediately go for an unblockable grab.

Checked a few times, they sometimes block shots - especially if they switch to you, but it's not something that happens all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTy-qV_Y1k
It's about the same with charged MAs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0_Yb9F82G4
There really isn't much “bad” input reading in this game. What it may look like is the result of aggressive enemies and probably poor choice of windows for healing, charged MAs, etc.

So basically what you’re saying is…..skill issue

[Age]

It's because enemy bosses or enemies in general don't stick to the same rules as players forced to, and It's getting ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying further you get in the game. Stagger and Poise stats are meaningless here.

Especially when you press your attacks and corner an enemy or a boss and they go "haha here comes japanese game ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ :)" or my favorite "haha red flash, dont counter fast :)"

♥♥♥♥ off with the "Repeat the same boss many times until you get the pattern" crap in hack and slashers. What is this, a mmorpg now?

[Lahoo Eckbert]

Originally posted by Voxman:

Originally posted by Lahoo Eckbert:

Enemy is preoccupied with an ally and I pull out the rifle and aim and they immediately dodge.
They do similar stuff on 1on1 too, for example the moment you hold the button(for a charge martial art) they immediately go for an unblockable grab.

Checked a few times, they sometimes block shots - especially if they switch to you, but it's not something that happens all the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTy-qV_Y1k
It's about the same with charged MAs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0_Yb9F82G4
There really isn't much “bad” input reading in this game. What it may look like is the result of aggressive enemies and probably poor choice of windows for healing, charged MAs, etc.

If happens more frequently if it is 2on1(you and your ally vs one enemy).
Also charge attack reading usually happens in 1v1 when the opponent isn't deflected immediately. They usually give you a second or two window when you deflect em so even if they read the input they might not be able to immediately go for a red, or a chain of attacks with hyper armor.
Anyway this is obviously all anecdotal but I have around 80 hours of gameplay and input reading was prominent enough for me to notice and become a nuisance.

Generally, here you can block most attacks and dodge a series of attacks with single roll.

But I'm not saying ER is about parrying or RotR is about rolling. It's just that in both cases, if you don't go into cheese territory, you need to memorize attack patterns, though not for the exact same reasons.

Again it's pointless back and forth at this point. Deflection is a more precise mechanic and near impossible to time on instinct, panic rolling works in ER for the most part save for Malenia's waterfowl dance or a few other attacks.

When you consider other things like stances(I mean yours) then variables that throw off your muscle memory increase dramatically.
I don't think two games are comparable(unless you dumb down it to a very basic level which in turn loses it's meaning) and I rest my case.

[gungadin22000]

I have now finished the game and entered midnight difficulty.

Overall, combat in this game is amazing, easily the best open-world combat in any game I've ever seen. For soulslikes in general, it is just slightly edged out by Nioh 2, but mostly due to the inclusion of yokai making it a bit more varied. I would probably rank its combat above Lies of P, which is otherwise my 2nd favourite soulslike of all time.

I would say that my only real gripe with the combat system in RotR is the HUD giving you very little information regarding your currently chosen combat style. The name of the style just flashes briefly in the bottom right corner of the screen, far away from your field of vision, and unless you're an absolute master of recognising each specific stance on sight, you have to do like me and just try out a martial art and see which one comes out in order to figure out which set you're using. For a game with such an unbelievably high variety of weapons, styles and martial art attacks, this is horrifyingly bad design, in my view, and could be fixed fairly easily.

I envision each style having its own unique icon with its own colouration, possibly based on whether it is defensive, offensive or balanced. Swapping to a new style should display this icon above your HP and ki bars, along with 1-3 more icons depicting the martial arts available to use. If done right, this would make it far easier for me to strategise around using the right martial arts at the right time instead of just mashing buttons and hoping the attack coming out isn't trash.

I also don't particularly like the entire "match style to enemy weapon" thing. I'm not sure how much of an advantage or disadvantage matching the style actually is, but I feel that it is pretty formulaic in the sense that I find myself just pressing F until I see blue arrows and then proceeding with the fight. This is made worse by the lack of a clear indicator of what martial arts you have available for your chosen style.

Other than that, completely badass swordfighting simulator, 8/10 easily, GOTY 2025 so far.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by gungadin22000:

I have now finished the game and entered midnight difficulty.

Overall, combat in this game is amazing, easily the best open-world combat in any game I've ever seen. For soulslikes in general, it is just slightly edged out by Nioh 2, but mostly due to the inclusion of yokai making it a bit more varied. I would probably rank its combat above Lies of P, which is otherwise my 2nd favourite soulslike of all time.

I would say that my only real gripe with the combat system in RotR is the HUD giving you very little information regarding your currently chosen combat style. The name of the style just flashes briefly in the bottom right corner of the screen, far away from your field of vision, and unless you're an absolute master of recognising each specific stance on sight, you have to do like me and just try out a martial art and see which one comes out in order to figure out which set you're using. For a game with such an unbelievably high variety of weapons, styles and martial art attacks, this is horrifyingly bad design, in my view, and could be fixed fairly easily.

I envision each style having its own unique icon with its own colouration, possibly based on whether it is defensive, offensive or balanced. Swapping to a new style should display this icon above your HP and ki bars, along with 1-3 more icons depicting the martial arts available to use. If done right, this would make it far easier for me to strategise around using the right martial arts at the right time instead of just mashing buttons and hoping the attack coming out isn't trash.

I also don't particularly like the entire "match style to enemy weapon" thing. I'm not sure how much of an advantage or disadvantage matching the style actually is, but I feel that it is pretty formulaic in the sense that I find myself just pressing F until I see blue arrows and then proceeding with the fight. This is made worse by the lack of a clear indicator of what martial arts you have available for your chosen style.

Other than that, completely badass swordfighting simulator, 8/10 easily, GOTY 2025 so far.

Calling RoTR a swordfighting simulator is like calling WWE 2K25 a martial arts simulator.

[That Disgruntled Ninja]

1. Input delay is likely a you problem either in regards to your monitor or something you're doing. You can cancel every attack and movement with counterspark except most martial skills and violent gale/flash attack. Sabers have the quickest violent gale as well.

Just for the record, Sekiro has 12 frames for parrying but doesn't let you parry out of a basic attack. Ronin's parry frames vary by style but every style has 9 frames minimum. The ones with the most active frames are Tatsumi Ryu at 27(?) and Mugai Ryu at 26.

2. Red attacks have both a visual and an audible indicator when they're coming. Listen for the "whoosh" sound effect and counterspark right at the end of that sound. You'll hit like 80% of your countersparks that way.

3. Block is your friend. Different weapons have different ki drain concerning block. Heavy weapons like Polearm, Greatsword and Odachi drain the least. Start blocking combos and only counterspark when you know you can reasonably react to it. If you miss a counterspark and get hit, you can hold the block button and it will block the next incoming attack if you have the ki for it.

4. Camera does suck sometimes can't even deny that. What you can do to mitigate it is position your character better. If you're in a situation where your camera is starting to mess up, get away and reset. Playing without lock on is actually better for multiple enemies as well, much like it is for any souls game. Already mentioned, but the sound effect can help with off screen red attacks too.

5. I don't know what you mean by missing with attacks. This seems like a mashing parry issue? Probably using Niten Ichi Ryu's counterspark. This can again be solved by blocking. The hitboxes and hurtboxes are very tight, and dual katanas are considered the highest DPS weapon in the game and has practically endless combos when you play it right.

6. You have a lot of time to walk up to the opponent and hit the triangle button. I only miss when I'm mashing or fighting in a really bad position so I can assume you're doing the same.

Thing about Ronin's combat is a lot of people's issues with it come from approaching it like a standard Soulslike game much like how years ago people approached Nioh the same way and wrote it off as garbage because they weren't good at it. The game is very nice to you in many ways but will not be afraid to tell you that you're bad at the combat. Funny enough I can't go back to other soulslike games easily because they're so slow compared to Ronin.

[ultimatelubu]

Originally posted by That Disgruntled Ninja:

1. Input delay is likely a you problem either in regards to your monitor or something you're doing. You can cancel every attack and movement with counterspark except most martial skills and violent gale/flash attack. Sabers have the quickest violent gale as well.

Just for the record, Sekiro has 12 frames for parrying but doesn't let you parry out of a basic attack. Ronin's parry frames vary by style but every style has 9 frames minimum. The ones with the most active frames are Tatsumi Ryu at 27(?) and Mugai Ryu at 26.

2. Red attacks have both a visual and an audible indicator when they're coming. Listen for the "whoosh" sound effect and counterspark right at the end of that sound. You'll hit like 80% of your countersparks that way.

3. Block is your friend. Different weapons have different ki drain concerning block. Heavy weapons like Polearm, Greatsword and Odachi drain the least. Start blocking combos and only counterspark when you know you can reasonably react to it. If you miss a counterspark and get hit, you can hold the block button and it will block the next incoming attack if you have the ki for it.

4. Camera does suck sometimes can't even deny that. What you can do to mitigate it is position your character better. If you're in a situation where your camera is starting to mess up, get away and reset. Playing without lock on is actually better for multiple enemies as well, much like it is for any souls game. Already mentioned, but the sound effect can help with off screen red attacks too.

5. I don't know what you mean by missing with attacks. This seems like a mashing parry issue? Probably using Niten Ichi Ryu's counterspark. This can again be solved by blocking. The hitboxes and hurtboxes are very tight, and dual katanas are considered the highest DPS weapon in the game and has practically endless combos when you play it right.

6. You have a lot of time to walk up to the opponent and hit the triangle button. I only miss when I'm mashing or fighting in a really bad position so I can assume you're doing the same.

Thing about Ronin's combat is a lot of people's issues with it come from approaching it like a standard Soulslike game much like how years ago people approached Nioh the same way and wrote it off as garbage because they weren't good at it. The game is very nice to you in many ways but will not be afraid to tell you that you're bad at the combat. Funny enough I can't go back to other soulslike games easily because they're so slow compared to Ronin.

Minor correction

Mugai is not a 26f style, the frame data they did on PlayStation was incorrect

It’s a dual window like Niten, so there’s two swipes that have their own frame length for the counterspark, and you can delay the second by holding the button. So if you’re a heavy presser you might inadvertently be increasing the vulnerability spot between the windows

[gungadin22000]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Originally posted by gungadin22000:

I have now finished the game and entered midnight difficulty.

Overall, combat in this game is amazing, easily the best open-world combat in any game I've ever seen. For soulslikes in general, it is just slightly edged out by Nioh 2, but mostly due to the inclusion of yokai making it a bit more varied. I would probably rank its combat above Lies of P, which is otherwise my 2nd favourite soulslike of all time.

I would say that my only real gripe with the combat system in RotR is the HUD giving you very little information regarding your currently chosen combat style. The name of the style just flashes briefly in the bottom right corner of the screen, far away from your field of vision, and unless you're an absolute master of recognising each specific stance on sight, you have to do like me and just try out a martial art and see which one comes out in order to figure out which set you're using. For a game with such an unbelievably high variety of weapons, styles and martial art attacks, this is horrifyingly bad design, in my view, and could be fixed fairly easily.

I envision each style having its own unique icon with its own colouration, possibly based on whether it is defensive, offensive or balanced. Swapping to a new style should display this icon above your HP and ki bars, along with 1-3 more icons depicting the martial arts available to use. If done right, this would make it far easier for me to strategise around using the right martial arts at the right time instead of just mashing buttons and hoping the attack coming out isn't trash.

I also don't particularly like the entire "match style to enemy weapon" thing. I'm not sure how much of an advantage or disadvantage matching the style actually is, but I feel that it is pretty formulaic in the sense that I find myself just pressing F until I see blue arrows and then proceeding with the fight. This is made worse by the lack of a clear indicator of what martial arts you have available for your chosen style.

Other than that, completely badass swordfighting simulator, 8/10 easily, GOTY 2025 so far.

Calling RoTR a swordfighting simulator is like calling WWE 2K25 a martial arts simulator.

I'd say it is, really. All the other stuff is....fine to mediocre to bad, but everything really serves as a vehicle to get the player to the next high-speed sword duel and does a very good job at this.

When the doorbell rings in a porno and it's the washing machine repair man, he is not there to give you a helpful tutorial on home appliance maintenance.

[LArc7thHeaven]

Originally posted by That Disgruntled Ninja:

Block is your friend. Different weapons have different ki drain concerning block. Heavy weapons like Polearm, Greatsword and Odachi drain the least. Start blocking combos and only counterspark when you know you can reasonably react to it. If you miss a counterspark and get hit, you can hold the block button and it will block the next incoming attack if you have the ki for it.

This is correct but also dodge is there if you have fear for enemy martial attacks, while it don't give good reward compared to counterspark, not losing your ki and HP is also a good reason to dodge if you're not comfortable with enemy martial attacks. You have tools for defense so use them.

Originally posted by That Disgruntled Ninja:

Camera does suck sometimes can't even deny that. What you can do to mitigate it is position your character better. If you're in a situation where your camera is starting to mess up, get away and reset. Playing without lock on is actually better for multiple enemies as well, much like it is for any souls game. Already mentioned, but the sound effect can help with off screen red attacks too.

My only advice for this problem is don't push your enemy to corners with wall especially when you got upper hand and too excited to pile on them. because honestly in this game corner with walls is your enemy because they'll screw you camera when you/enemy moves and put you in bad pov where you can't see enemy attack

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by gungadin22000:

Originally posted by Tr0w:

Calling RoTR a swordfighting simulator is like calling WWE 2K25 a martial arts simulator.

I'd say it is, really. All the other stuff is....fine to mediocre to bad, but everything really serves as a vehicle to get the player to the next high-speed sword duel and does a very good job at this.

When the doorbell rings in a porno and it's the washing machine repair man, he is not there to give you a helpful tutorial on home appliance maintenance.

Sword fighting sim implies that there's actual practical sword fighting here, anime/hollywood fighting would be more appropriate. Dunno about you but raking your sword along the ground to set it on fire so you can now do fire damage and jumping spinning suplexes does not strike me as "sword fighting sim"