My grievences about combat

[Aria Athena]

Parrying and Countersparking are fine on their own, but in Ronin these mechanics have not been tightly implemented. There are a ton of weapons, stances, combos, and hitboxes for the same actions, and it doesn't feel like they have all been properly tested. As a result, things keep failing. I am going to list my issues in no particular order, and then have Mike tell me how they are all user related errors. I am at the dojo now, and fighting all those bosses again on repeat really highlighted my problems.

1) The attacks are often very fast, the parry frames few, yet there is input delay. The combat is at the point where a couple of frames actually do count. This is very common btw, but in most games it becomes rarely an issue.

2) The red aura tells you an attack is unblockable, while obscuring the enemy's animations, and the flash tells you nothing consistently. Not when you should parry, not when the attack is about to hit and not when the attack is about to begin. To properly parry red attacks you have to follow the enemies' movement, as always, but now there is red aura in the way and an inconsistent flash to confuse you. I don't understand why it's implemented this way, when the flash's sole purpose is to show you when to parry. Of course people are having trouble understanding when to parry, they are following an inconsistent indicator.

3) Combos/animations are way too similar. They very often start with the same 2-3 attacks, and then split to up to 3 different combos, one of which requires instant parry follow up, and the others being delayed. Other combos start with almost the exact same animations, to the point someone said you are not supposed to know what they are doing. Some have the same attack twice, but one of them is faster. I am not just saying a few bosses have such a combo, I am saying most bosses have like 4 iterations of this. The tell sometimes comes down to literally a twist of the wrist, which is not even always visible cause of the

4) camera and lock-feature. You character locks-on the enemy, mostly, but the camera certainly doesn't. It kinda tries, I think. It doesn't even hold relative positions, or even the enemy on screen. Sometimes you character is obscuring the enemy, other times the enemy is on your left all of a sudden, while the camera keeps moving, somewhat trying to reposition. Meanwhile, that wrist you need to keep an eye on, to know if you should parry once or twice, is on the other side and not visible. I need to emphasize that you are locked-on, it's not like you can adjust it manually, unless you unlock and relock. You can always play without lock-on, tell me how that goes.

Also, the red flash the game expects you to pay attention to, sometimes happens off screen, cause the enemy jumped high in the air, with half of him out of screen, cause the camera didn't follow. During the first fight with the blade twin, she has a zig-zag charge attack, which half the time goes off screen as well.

On its own, this is a minor issue, cause in what game such as this the camera doesn't screw you occasionally? But the enemy is on your size, the combos similar, the animations subtle as ♥♥♥♥ and the parry frames few.

5) Enemies quite often miss you with their attacks, and you are left exposed during parry animation. This can happen in a few different ways, but one of them is mid-combo while in the boss' face. You go for the parry and you miss each other, even if you are in kissing distance. Needless to say, you get hit by the next attack in the combo. Shusaku Chiba is by far the worse culprit so far, the amount of times he misses is staggering. This is by far the worst issue for me, and I think it's insane it's in a game such as this. It's probably as I said, a ton of weapons, stances, combos, and hitboxes, and some miss-matches slipped through the cracks. Dual katanas btw, in case you are wondering.

6) Final issue, and again probably related to weapon/enemy combinations. After breaking their stance, sometimes the animation of the execution doesn't reach the enemy, you are locked in position, and usually miss the time frame. For example, Kimenzan, dual katanas, the execution starts with an upward strike with both blades, and sometimes doesn't reach him. You see the red circle, you press the button and you somehow fail. That's not as often, but against the enemies that it happens, it happens quite consistently.

Maybe I picked the weapon with the most hitbox issues.

[Aria Athena]

İlk olarak normalredux tarafından gönderildi:

The game would be a hell of a lot easier and more consistent if it had decent optimization and we could all run it at native res with no frame gen at 120fps.

Even if I can get higher fps, I currently have to lock the game at 30, because the physics, which are tied to fps, fail if I lock it at 60, or 120. The game goes into different degrees of slow motion.

[Voxman]

My experience has been mixed. I don't find the combat system itself bad or not enjoyable. But, if in Sekiro, I almost always realized where and why I was wrong, here I have no idea half the time.

Timings often don't feel intuitive or connected to animations in an understandable way. Parrying some attacks is like flipping a coin. And the parrying windows themselves are either bizarre or very short.

You are simply building muscle memory with proper persistence. It's not a problem in itself, but here you have to do it too often.

[Zarviya]

for me it's the clunky ass movement that;s REALLY been buggin me if you go form Nioh 2 to this they messed up X,D

[WHITE]

this game should have been nioh 3, not a garbage sekiro clone

[causality]

Think they wanted to get away from Nioh's combat since you could bully human bosses with zero ki combos which are easy to pull off and prevent their ki from regening.

edit: Aside from enemies with inhuman movements that jump around and cause your camera to spazz out, the combat is really good in this game.

[Purpleetea]

İlk olarak WHITE tarafından gönderildi:

this game should have been nioh 3, not a garbage sekiro clone

I have flash news for you....its not NIOH 3 :)

[Pnume]

The parry isn't as forgiving as Sekiro or even Wo Long but the reward when you get it is even better.

On the combat side of side the only things that annoy me are the usual suspects: The ♥♥♥♥♥♥ camera especially in tight spaces and the command that tends to overlap each other with pretty common accidental triggers.

[Darkness_Knouva]

Parrying can be tough for sure, and on Midnight Difficulty the counter spark can still lead an opponent to chaining another Martial Art to it while I am still in the animation of the previous counter spark sometimes. All this can feel a little cheap, especially because your ki system can have you lose so much stamina quickly.

Fighting the characters at public orders on Midnight difficulty made me put more emphasis on dodging attacks and maintaining a fair distance. I would say this... don't forget to launch your grappling hook at opponents in fights. It will force them to block, whittle away at their ki, and can stop many of their animations.

Some of the fights can certainly feel cheap though. I remember dying to the first encounter with Ryoma on Midnight difficulty like 50 times. You encounter him in the Yokohama district out in a wooded village area (accompanied by a dog and an archer behind him). His handgun bullets felt like some of the cheapest things I had encountered until that point because they ricochet of the ground and tress and hit me to deplete ki insanely fast. Add to it that his effect gives every shot he fires a flame elemental, and he could rack up damage so fast. I was likely under-geared at the time since I was mainly using my Fortune's Favorite ninja build, but that fight drove me crazy.

Some of the hidden enemies give me trouble as well on Midnight difficulty. From Kyoto on, it really felt like the game faced a much high difficulty spike, for me at least.

[Outlaw Mugen]

İlk olarak Snailor Lazzy tarafından gönderildi:

What made the game feel much better to me is to recognize that this isn't Sekiro and the parry isn't your main defensive tool. You shouldn't default to always parrying and should instead rely more on blocks and evades until you get a feel for the enemy you're fighting. I also used to be frustrated, but once I stopped trying to parry everything the first time I see it, fights started to become more well-paced, where I start off mostly blocking and then parrying more and more as I get a feel for the enemy's attacks.

Playing on easy eh?

[ultimatelubu]

İlk olarak SFJake tarafından gönderildi:

This game has the worst fighting system I've played in a while. its fun in terms of animation & sound, its fun when dealing with dumb scrubby enemies that get insta-staggered by a parry, but anything that puts this combat system to the test fails.

I've played so many hard games, all of Team Ninja's games, and this game's combat is impossible to enjoy. I don't even die, I just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate my time with it. You'll get hit all the time, the stamina makes anything thats not-parrying extremely punishing on your playstyle, the window for some attacks to parry is literally around 2 frames, whilst others are like 12. There is no rhyme or reason, and outside of parry the combat sucks ass, if you're not parrying things you're not having fun, but you're not parrying things unless you learn every attack very precisely.

So many times I thought this was a perfect parry and the game said "nope". Sometimes the parry goes through and hit their weapon while they're winding up. From one attack to another, its absolute inconsistent garbage, yet is the core of the gameplay. And thats without factoring in different stances.

I'm having a hard time mustering the desire to finish this game. Outside of combat TN games have very little to offer. So with this combat being this bad, its such a chore.


Besides, I can never get over the disparity between you and opponents. You both play by entirely different rules that don't mesh. Me hitting and visibly destroying an opponent for multiple hits just for them to "armor" through (and with the lock-on camera always being on the side I can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ see ♥♥♥♥) forever will feel like utter garbage. Sekiro understood the simplest rules to create a proper back & forth and flow, such as enemies parrying your attack to tell you they can now armor through. This game? Just armor at any time. Even panicking enemies can randomly do chains of red attacks while armoring through. Like, are you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kidding me?


This combat system is complete garbage and a gigantic disappointment. Not to mention, outside of parry timing its not even close to complex, there is very little to do or think about because of the game's lack of flow. It manages to be stupidly simple and stupidly impossible to enjoy.

Unbelievable to me that the people who made systems like Nioh 2's or Strangers of Paradise's combat made this ♥♥♥♥, and people who defend it have no credibility.

No style has a counterspark window at 2f, the lowest is 9, highest 27 per tests on PlayStation

[causality]

İlk olarak SFJake tarafından gönderildi:

This game has the worst fighting system I've played in a while. its fun in terms of animation & sound, its fun when dealing with dumb scrubby enemies that get insta-staggered by a parry, but anything that puts this combat system to the test fails.

I've played so many hard games, all of Team Ninja's games, and this game's combat is impossible to enjoy. I don't even die, I just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate my time with it. You'll get hit all the time, the stamina makes anything thats not-parrying extremely punishing on your playstyle, the window for some attacks to parry is literally around 2 frames, whilst others are like 12. There is no rhyme or reason, and outside of parry the combat sucks ass, if you're not parrying things you're not having fun, but you're not parrying things unless you learn every attack very precisely.

So many times I thought this was a perfect parry and the game said "nope". Sometimes the parry goes through and hit their weapon while they're winding up. From one attack to another, its absolute inconsistent garbage, yet is the core of the gameplay. And thats without factoring in different stances.

I'm having a hard time mustering the desire to finish this game. Outside of combat TN games have very little to offer. So with this combat being this bad, its such a chore.


Besides, I can never get over the disparity between you and opponents. You both play by entirely different rules that don't mesh. Me hitting and visibly destroying an opponent for multiple hits just for them to "armor" through (and with the lock-on camera always being on the side I can't ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ see ♥♥♥♥) forever will feel like utter garbage. Sekiro understood the simplest rules to create a proper back & forth and flow, such as enemies parrying your attack to tell you they can now armor through. This game? Just armor at any time. Even panicking enemies can randomly do chains of red attacks while armoring through. Like, are you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kidding me?


This combat system is complete garbage and a gigantic disappointment. Not to mention, outside of parry timing its not even close to complex, there is very little to do or think about because of the game's lack of flow. It manages to be stupidly simple and stupidly impossible to enjoy.

Unbelievable to me that the people who made systems like Nioh 2's or Strangers of Paradise's combat made this ♥♥♥♥, and people who defend it have no credibility.

Don't forget the part where some bosses can defensively zip across your screen at 0 ki whenever they randomly decide enough is enough and re engage with a high speed dashing martial art (all the while still at 0 ki mind you).

[Crayon-Sha]

As much as I enjoy the game (60 hours so far, and I believe I've almost beaten it) I completely agree with your points. The visual incoherence is one of my main gripes. Nioh had a problem with visual clutter too, to the point where I used mods to reduce the particle effects —Team Ninja still haven't learned anything. There are a few bosses in this game which have made me think "I have no idea what the hell is going on".

[Littlefatcat]

İlk olarak Aria Athena tarafından gönderildi:

Parrying and Countersparking are fine on their own, but in Ronin these mechanics have not been tightly implemented. There are a ton of weapons, stances, combos, and hitboxes for the same actions, and it doesn't feel like they have all been properly tested. As a result, things keep failing. I am going to list my issues in no particular order, and then have Mike tell me how they are all user related errors. I am at the dojo now, and fighting all those bosses again on repeat really highlighted my problems.

1) The attacks are often very fast, the parry frames few, yet there is input delay. The combat is at the point where a couple of frames actually do count. This is very common btw, but in most games it becomes rarely an issue.

2) The red aura tells you an attack is unblockable, while obscuring the enemy's animations, and the flash tells you nothing consistently. Not when you should parry, not when the attack is about to hit and not when the attack is about to begin. To properly parry red attacks you have to follow the enemies' movement, as always, but now there is red aura in the way and an inconsistent flash to confuse you. I don't understand why it's implemented this way, when the flash's sole purpose is to show you when to parry. Of course people are having trouble understanding when to parry, they are following an inconsistent indicator.

3) Combos/animations are way too similar. They very often start with the same 2-3 attacks, and then split to up to 3 different combos, one of which requires instant parry follow up, and the others being delayed. Other combos start with almost the exact same animations, to the point someone said you are not supposed to know what they are doing. Some have the same attack twice, but one of them is faster. I am not just saying a few bosses have such a combo, I am saying most bosses have like 4 iterations of this. The tell sometimes comes down to literally a twist of the wrist, which is not even always visible cause of the

4) camera and lock-feature. You character locks-on the enemy, mostly, but the camera certainly doesn't. It kinda tries, I think. It doesn't even hold relative positions, or even the enemy on screen. Sometimes you character is obscuring the enemy, other times the enemy is on your left all of a sudden, while the camera keeps moving, somewhat trying to reposition. Meanwhile, that wrist you need to keep an eye on, to know if you should parry once or twice, is on the other side and not visible. I need to emphasize that you are locked-on, it's not like you can adjust it manually, unless you unlock and relock. You can always play without lock-on, tell me how that goes.

Also, the red flash the game expects you to pay attention to, sometimes happens off screen, cause the enemy jumped high in the air, with half of him out of screen, cause the camera didn't follow. During the first fight with the blade twin, she has a zig-zag charge attack, which half the time goes off screen as well.

On its own, this is a minor issue, cause in what game such as this the camera doesn't screw you occasionally? But the enemy is on your size, the combos similar, the animations subtle as ♥♥♥♥ and the parry frames few.

5) Enemies quite often miss you with their attacks, and you are left exposed during parry animation. This can happen in a few different ways, but one of them is mid-combo while in the boss' face. You go for the parry and you miss each other, even if you are in kissing distance. Needless to say, you get hit by the next attack in the combo. Shusaku Chiba is by far the worse culprit so far, the amount of times he misses is staggering. This is by far the worst issue for me, and I think it's insane it's in a game such as this. It's probably as I said, a ton of weapons, stances, combos, and hitboxes, and some miss-matches slipped through the cracks. Dual katanas btw, in case you are wondering.

6) Final issue, and again probably related to weapon/enemy combinations. After breaking their stance, sometimes the animation of the execution doesn't reach the enemy, you are locked in position, and usually miss the time frame. For example, Kimenzan, dual katanas, the execution starts with an upward strike with both blades, and sometimes doesn't reach him. You see the red circle, you press the button and you somehow fail. That's not as often, but against the enemies that it happens, it happens quite consistently.

Maybe I picked the weapon with the most hitbox issues.

Your grievances about combat are just that you suck at it. If you practice you get good. If you don't you don't get good.

[Aria Athena]

İlk olarak causality tarafından gönderildi:

Don't forget the part where some bosses can defensively zip across your screen at 0 ki whenever they randomly decide enough is enough and re engage with a high speed dashing martial art (all the while still at 0 ki mind you).

Now that you mentioned bosses and Ki, they start regenerating Ki IMMEDIATELY when knocked down. They get knocked down, often knocked back, roll away, and their Ki is full before you can even throw a suriken. The moment their backs touch the ground, regeneration starts. Like, excuse me? I avoid most of my weapon's martial arts, because they can knock them down.

[Miku]

İlk olarak Littlefatcat tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Aria Athena tarafından gönderildi:

Parrying and Countersparking are fine on their own, but in Ronin these mechanics have not been tightly implemented. There are a ton of weapons, stances, combos, and hitboxes for the same actions, and it doesn't feel like they have all been properly tested. As a result, things keep failing. I am going to list my issues in no particular order, and then have Mike tell me how they are all user related errors. I am at the dojo now, and fighting all those bosses again on repeat really highlighted my problems.

1) The attacks are often very fast, the parry frames few, yet there is input delay. The combat is at the point where a couple of frames actually do count. This is very common btw, but in most games it becomes rarely an issue.

2) The red aura tells you an attack is unblockable, while obscuring the enemy's animations, and the flash tells you nothing consistently. Not when you should parry, not when the attack is about to hit and not when the attack is about to begin. To properly parry red attacks you have to follow the enemies' movement, as always, but now there is red aura in the way and an inconsistent flash to confuse you. I don't understand why it's implemented this way, when the flash's sole purpose is to show you when to parry. Of course people are having trouble understanding when to parry, they are following an inconsistent indicator.

3) Combos/animations are way too similar. They very often start with the same 2-3 attacks, and then split to up to 3 different combos, one of which requires instant parry follow up, and the others being delayed. Other combos start with almost the exact same animations, to the point someone said you are not supposed to know what they are doing. Some have the same attack twice, but one of them is faster. I am not just saying a few bosses have such a combo, I am saying most bosses have like 4 iterations of this. The tell sometimes comes down to literally a twist of the wrist, which is not even always visible cause of the

4) camera and lock-feature. You character locks-on the enemy, mostly, but the camera certainly doesn't. It kinda tries, I think. It doesn't even hold relative positions, or even the enemy on screen. Sometimes you character is obscuring the enemy, other times the enemy is on your left all of a sudden, while the camera keeps moving, somewhat trying to reposition. Meanwhile, that wrist you need to keep an eye on, to know if you should parry once or twice, is on the other side and not visible. I need to emphasize that you are locked-on, it's not like you can adjust it manually, unless you unlock and relock. You can always play without lock-on, tell me how that goes.

Also, the red flash the game expects you to pay attention to, sometimes happens off screen, cause the enemy jumped high in the air, with half of him out of screen, cause the camera didn't follow. During the first fight with the blade twin, she has a zig-zag charge attack, which half the time goes off screen as well.

On its own, this is a minor issue, cause in what game such as this the camera doesn't screw you occasionally? But the enemy is on your size, the combos similar, the animations subtle as ♥♥♥♥ and the parry frames few.

5) Enemies quite often miss you with their attacks, and you are left exposed during parry animation. This can happen in a few different ways, but one of them is mid-combo while in the boss' face. You go for the parry and you miss each other, even if you are in kissing distance. Needless to say, you get hit by the next attack in the combo. Shusaku Chiba is by far the worse culprit so far, the amount of times he misses is staggering. This is by far the worst issue for me, and I think it's insane it's in a game such as this. It's probably as I said, a ton of weapons, stances, combos, and hitboxes, and some miss-matches slipped through the cracks. Dual katanas btw, in case you are wondering.

6) Final issue, and again probably related to weapon/enemy combinations. After breaking their stance, sometimes the animation of the execution doesn't reach the enemy, you are locked in position, and usually miss the time frame. For example, Kimenzan, dual katanas, the execution starts with an upward strike with both blades, and sometimes doesn't reach him. You see the red circle, you press the button and you somehow fail. That's not as often, but against the enemies that it happens, it happens quite consistently.

Maybe I picked the weapon with the most hitbox issues.

Your grievances about combat are just that you suck at it. If you practice you get good. If you don't you don't get good.

what an insanly stupid take. "grass is green" ahh take. Of course you get better if you play more, but it does not excuse poor mechanics.