The plot in the game is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid

[daemonnnn]

The convoluted contradictions of all the characters, the apparent inneffect of the devotion system with companions, the protagonist being forced to take decisions or siding with character that is absolutely unnatural and the awful awful plot point of "someone's sabotaging the peace and causing chaos" all the while your protagonist character not only KNOWS who is doing it, he lets him escape NUMEROUS times! Like jesus christ that is nonsense that I haven't seen even in the Yakuza games. Initially I already was confronted with the contrast of the storytelling working against the open world exploration and the core gameplay experience, but it's dragged on for so absolutely long.

All that needed to happen was for my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ protagonist character to say "HEY, GUYS, IT'S NEITHER OF YOU THAT'S CAUSING THIS ♥♥♥♥, IT'S MY RETARDED ASS BROTHER WHO IS OBSESSED WITH SETTING THE WORLD ON FIRE, KILLS ALL MY FRIENDS, AND FOR SOME REASON I CONSISTENTLY LET HIM WALK AWAY"

Jesus ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ christ. I Just want to finish this. Awful Awful writing. It's a game that should've been the first chapter and ended there. And instead it just drags the ♥♥♥♥ on. Completely killed a game I was otherwise enjoying.

[Lavian]

The Blade Twin seems pretty much like a history-correction tool, tbh.

Would you kill a person that's didn't die historically? Blade Twin saves them. Will you spare someone who's supposed to die historically? Blade Twin kills them.

There's some exceptions to this, but that's largely the sum of what they do throughout the story in any major capacity.

Honestly, aside from the Blade Twin's motivations being cartoonish, they're mostly fine.

The idea that they're actually really contributing to the civil war is kind of laughable to be honest, because the political tensions of xenophonia vs necessity of opening relations when faced down with superior naval canons that can bombard you from offshore with impunity is portrayed pretty straight here. Your Blade Twin pretty much doesn't appear to play any major part in this. They just kind of stand in the background of some scenes.

People not giving you ♥♥♥♥ for constantly flip-flopping between sides and killing dozens of people in the process is pretty absurd though.

[daemonnnn]

Originally posted by Lavian:

The Blade Twin seems pretty much like a history-correction tool, tbh.

Would you kill a person that's didn't die historically? Blade Twin saves them. Will you spare someone who's supposed to die historically? Blade Twin kills them.

There's some exceptions to this, but that's largely the sum of what they do throughout the story in any major capacity.

Honestly, aside from the Blade Twin's motivations being cartoonish, they're mostly fine.

The idea that they're actually really contributing to the civil war is kind of laughable to be honest, because the political tensions of xenophonia vs necessity of opening relations when faced down with superior naval canons that can bombard you from offshore with impunity is portrayed pretty straight here. Your Blade Twin pretty much doesn't appear to play any major part in this. They just kind of stand in the background of some scenes.

People not giving you ♥♥♥♥ for constantly flip-flopping between sides and killing dozens of people in the process is pretty absurd though.

It just feels like it would be a better movie or series of movies than a game. It just drags on for forever. It's enfuriating.

[n1lknarf]

this story is not about you
but they made it mandatory to play the story to unlock tons of stuff, so I understand the sentiment

[daemonnnn]

Originally posted by n1lknarf:

this story is not about you
but they made it mandatory to play the story to unlock tons of stuff, so I understand the sentiment

The story is not about the protagonist, but also the protagonist plays no part and has no stakes ultimately making the story feel irrelevant. It's not only that but adding to the issue, there is no consistency in the story telling. It's just a total mess.

[Veg]

For me its how they narrativly depict the shogunate as the worst of the worst. Then send you out on an assassination mission to kill guy. Give guy no redeeming features at all then prompt you like MORAL CHOICE DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO KILL HIM HERE, NOW, AT THE HEIGHT OF THE ASSASSINATION MISSION?!?!/11/111

Its so weird.

[daemonnnn]

Originally posted by Veg:

For me its how they narrativly depict the shogunate as the worst of the worst. Then send you out on an assassination mission to kill guy. Give guy no redeeming features at all then prompt you like MORAL CHOICE DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO KILL HIM HERE, NOW, AT THE HEIGHT OF THE ASSASSINATION MISSION?!?!/11/111

Its so weird.

It gets so much worser than that the further along in the story you go. It's poorly written. Everything feels forced in and poorly implemented. Which is a shame cause I was loving the gameplay and loved the open world exploration... Until they add 2 more open worlds and start spamming companion quests that are mostly "go here fight guys"

[LArc7thHeaven]

The rocket boots and robot arms are more troubling than the plot. I'm surprised perry not come in hovercraft and firing death ray to intimidate japan

[It´sAllAimAssist]

Originally posted by LArc7thHeaven:

The rocket boots and robot arms are more troubling than the plot. I'm surprised perry not come in hovercraft and firing death ray to intimidate japan

He definitely fought twin goth ninja girls though, that´s historically accurate.

When I made my characters is the point in the story where I stopped taking this game seriously as I knew it was going to be an over the top team ninja game.
Story is the same convoluted mess like Nioh where they plop you into real history that was a convoluted mess.

[gungadin22000]

Originally posted by LArc7thHeaven:

The rocket boots and robot arms are more troubling than the plot. I'm surprised perry not come in hovercraft and firing death ray to intimidate japan

I would absolutely play that game. It would have laser katana duels.

On a sidenote, I love robot arms in media. I especially liked how Charlize Theron had a robot arm in the last Mad Max film that was 100% functional, yet everybody else was driving around in 1950ies-era rusty cars and living in caves.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Veg:

For me its how they narrativly depict the shogunate as the worst of the worst. Then send you out on an assassination mission to kill guy. Give guy no redeeming features at all then prompt you like MORAL CHOICE DO YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO KILL HIM HERE, NOW, AT THE HEIGHT OF THE ASSASSINATION MISSION?!?!/11/111

Its so weird.

Idk it was not really weird to me as the game makes if very clear that there are 3 choices the player will have to make throughout the game, in main missions and side missions, and one off dialoge. Those choices are, are you going full on anti-shogunate, Pro-Shogonate, or are you following the path of a Ronin and only doing these things to help you find out more about your blade twin. There is even side dialoge between the player character and Ryoma where he specifically talks about not agreeing with either side fully but just doing what he thinks is right, so he is also more of a Ronin jumping to whoever has a job for them or furthers their own goals.

This point you have an issue with is explained later on and the
Red Demon is more or less a rogue part of the Shogunate, which is why he was killed off even if the player does not kill them, meaning he was taking matters into his own hands by attempting to brute force his way into everyone.

Also if you pay attention to the player choices (dialogue options) before that point
the reason if gives the player the choice to kill him or spare him is to give the player the Ronin (neutral) Option, meaning your not really taking a hard stance on which side of the conflict you are on, even if you are helping others to really to find out more about your blade twin.

I;m not saying the story is perfect but the game imo, gives reasons for giving the player choices and decisions and if they don't make sense at the time they will later on.

[Percopius]

Opinion: I like the writing. I like the level of detail for so many characters (and factions, and combat schools, and historic events, etc...). Most of the cast have arcs that develop as the timeline progresses, so many change dramatically over the course of the game. The fact that the combat arts and a lot of player-character mechanic progression involves forming a relationship with this cast of characters, then fighting them in the dojo to level those arts, is different, and gives utility to story and characters in direct support of the deep combat systems . Also, they have made a limited branching, mainly linear fictionalization of historic events, stringing out missions that are distributed by the vast cast of characters in a series of open worlds that can be completed (main characters dying, history progressing, major shifts in alliances, etc...), then allow you to replay missions not in your timeline, but in the past, and even make different choices, changing the story. My main love interest was murdered and I progressed to Chapter two at one point. It was emotional to watch. Then I discovered I could go back in time when she was alive. I did so, starting a conversation with her, giving a gift I didn't need to her, just so I could interact with her again. That was something.

I think its easy to parrot the trope that Team Ninja can't do anything but combat. I'm not saying you should like the historical fiction they created or are wrong in your appraisal of their success at implementing it, but even in is imperfect state they tried something ambitious, beyond their mastery of action combat (I have 1600 hours in Nioh 2, they are masters in my estimation) that attempts to support this strength, and I have not been able to stop playing.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Percopius:

Opinion: I like the writing. I like the level of detail for so many characters (and factions, and combat schools, and historic events, etc...). Most of the cast have arcs that develop as the timeline progresses, so many change dramatically over the course of the game. The fact that the combat arts and a lot of player-character mechanic progression involves forming a relationship with this cast of characters, then fighting them in the dojo to level those arts, is different, and gives utility to story and characters in direct support of the deep combat systems . Also, they have made a limited branching, mainly linear fictionalization of historic events, stringing out missions that are distributed by the vast cast of characters in a series of open worlds that can be completed (main characters dying, history progressing, major shifts in alliances, etc...), then allow you to replay missions not in your timeline, but in the past, and even make different choices, changing the story. My main love interest was murdered and I progressed to Chapter two at one point. It was emotional to watch. Then I discovered I could go back in time when she was alive. I did so, starting a conversation with her, giving a gift I didn't need to her, just so I could interact with her again. That was something.

I think its easy to parrot the trope that Team Ninja can't do anything but combat. I'm not saying you should like the historical fiction they created or are wrong in your appraisal of their success at implementing it, but even in is imperfect state they tried something ambitious, beyond their mastery of action combat (I have 1600 hours in Nioh 2, they are masters in my estimation) that attempts to support this strength, and I have not been able to stop playing.

Very well said!

I pretty much agree with your overall explanation as to why you like the story/writing. its the layers that keep me interested, the intertwining and memorable characters, and the bond system that really makes the world feel more alive in then other open world games.

[Celebros]

I like the style of Team Ninjas storytelling too and they elevate it in this compared to Nioh(s). When Nioh's were this kind of chronicle with lots of nice touch for us history geeks here they go way beyond that with individual stories. There is always motivation behind every character. Sure, the main story is still very chronicle-like with time jumps, but as i know the history i find it very inspiring how they let you see all the angles of the story and they do make a lot of sense individually. Be it somewhat clumsy in the way they sow it into main plot, it's still very well executed.

I only wish the world building would support all of that as the world is not well done and for most part just empty. It should be so much more alive like the characters are.

[Percopius]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Percopius:

Opinion: I like the writing. I like the level of detail for so many characters (and factions, and combat schools, and historic events, etc...). Most of the cast have arcs that develop as the timeline progresses, so many change dramatically over the course of the game. The fact that the combat arts and a lot of player-character mechanic progression involves forming a relationship with this cast of characters, then fighting them in the dojo to level those arts, is different, and gives utility to story and characters in direct support of the deep combat systems . Also, they have made a limited branching, mainly linear fictionalization of historic events, stringing out missions that are distributed by the vast cast of characters in a series of open worlds that can be completed (main characters dying, history progressing, major shifts in alliances, etc...), then allow you to replay missions not in your timeline, but in the past, and even make different choices, changing the story. My main love interest was murdered and I progressed to Chapter two at one point. It was emotional to watch. Then I discovered I could go back in time when she was alive. I did so, starting a conversation with her, giving a gift I didn't need to her, just so I could interact with her again. That was something.

I think its easy to parrot the trope that Team Ninja can't do anything but combat. I'm not saying you should like the historical fiction they created or are wrong in your appraisal of their success at implementing it, but even in is imperfect state they tried something ambitious, beyond their mastery of action combat (I have 1600 hours in Nioh 2, they are masters in my estimation) that attempts to support this strength, and I have not been able to stop playing.

Very well said!

I pretty much agree with your overall explanation as to why you like the story/writing. its the layers that keep me interested, the intertwining and memorable characters, and the bond system that really makes the world feel more alive in then other open world games.

Thank you :)

[Percopius]

Originally posted by Celebros:

I like the style of Team Ninjas storytelling too and they elevate it in this compared to Nioh(s). When Nioh's were this kind of chronicle with lots of nice touch for us history geeks here they go way beyond that with individual stories. There is always motivation behind every character. Sure, the main story is still very chronicle-like with time jumps, but as i know the history i find it very inspiring how they let you see all the angles of the story and they do make a lot of sense individually. Be it somewhat clumsy in the way they sow it into main plot, it's still very well executed.

I only wish the world building would support all of that as the world is not well done and for most part just empty. It should be so much more alive like the characters are.

I agree in the main with what you are saying. I really liked the story in Nioh 2, I think it was the formation of their style of fictionalizing history that is developed more so in Rise of the Ronin. I like the approach of a big cast with messy entanglements, and dispersed smaller arcs supporting a grand theme. I think a lot of westerners prefer the simpler 'Grand Argument' - 'Hero's Journey' (i.e. Joseph Campbell) approach, which is fine and has more immediate impact, but I prefer Team Ninja's approach for games in general - but I also prefer FromSoft's approach, which I like very much; they both allow me to ponder the world in multiple play-throughs. Both seem more organic forms of story telling in games, as opposed to the idea that a game is just the platform for a movie.