Is Providence good or bad?

[O ARTROSE]

I think I'm missing something here. When I read through Risk of Rain 2 stuff, I always thought Mithrix was kind of the evil one, and Providence was more of a good guy... but I dunno anymore. In that beginning cinematic, Providence just seems to be some gigantic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who invades and destroys the spaceship for no good reason.

The game then goes on to try and gaslight me into feeling bad after I slaughter the ♥♥♥♥ out of those lemurians and kill Providence, with each character seemingly feeling terrible for doing so. I am incapable of feeling bad for Providence, and for whatever other beings that live in this hellhole planet.

If I remember correctly, he attacked the ship because the Heretic tried to escape the planet through it, right? I think I saw something like that in a RoR2 log. But even then, he didn't have to doom all of the ship's passengers. I think he had it coming.

[CanvasK]

Not every story needs a good guy.

If we take Mithrix at his word, then Providence loved saving species from their extinction (some caused by themselves) and then doing... nothing. Build a home, leave them alone, let them have fun, and convert from biology to physics anyone daring to question anything about his rule or question the Beads. The creatures still looked up to and defend him because, without him, they'd no longer exist and now prosper under him.

Mithrix is also not explicitly bad. His intentions were never to harm other creatures, only turning to do so to get back at Providence for betraying him. He mainly wanted to create things but could only do so through his brother. He wanted to find out if his people existed beyond his home. I believe the only times that he was angry at his brother is after being trapped on the moon; the log book for Halcyon Seed reads more as disappointment than anger, wanting Providence to reflect and improve.

As for why Providence was on the Contact Light. My interpretation is that somehow a teleporter came into their possession (possibly from Saturn which the Bighorn Bison resided). It was incidentally near the moon of Petrichor V. On said moon is Mithrix. If that teleporter managed to get onto the moon then Mithrix could use it to get back to Petrichor V and get revenge on Providence. So to prevent that, Providence attacks. In this chaos (from the second line of Heretic's log), Kur-skan guns for the control room to try and get herself away from the planet. Providence puts an end to that idea. He wouldn't know her intentions and, maybe, he thinks she is trying to take it to the moon. Or he doesn't like the idea of his collection escaping.

[O ARTROSE]

Originally posted by CanvasK:

Not every story needs a good guy.

If we take Mithrix at his word, then Providence loved saving species from their extinction (some caused by themselves) and then doing... nothing. Build a home, leave them alone, let them have fun, and convert from biology to physics anyone daring to question anything about his rule or question the Beads. The creatures still looked up to and defend him because, without him, they'd no longer exist and now prosper under him.

Mithrix is also not explicitly bad. His intentions were never to harm other creatures, only turning to do so to get back at Providence for betraying him. He mainly wanted to create things but could only do so through his brother. He wanted to find out if his people existed beyond his home. I believe the only times that he was angry at his brother is after being trapped on the moon; the log book for Halcyon Seed reads more as disappointment than anger, wanting Providence to reflect and improve.

As for why Providence was on the Contact Light. My interpretation is that somehow a teleporter came into their possession (possibly from Saturn which the Bighorn Bison resided). It was incidentally near the moon of Petrichor V. On said moon is Mithrix. If that teleporter managed to get onto the moon then Mithrix could use it to get back to Petrichor V and get revenge on Providence. So to prevent that, Providence attacks. In this chaos (from the second line of Heretic's log), Kur-skan guns for the control room to try and get herself away from the planet. Providence puts an end to that idea. He wouldn't know her intentions and, maybe, he thinks she is trying to take it to the moon. Or he doesn't like the idea of his collection escaping.

That was insightful, thanks for explaining it to me. It's been a while since I read the logs from RoR2, and maybe because of that I thought Mithrix was bad. He does have a bit of superiority complex, true, but if we look at the story from his side, Providence is quite the ahole to him. His quotes whenever you kill him always got to me, because despite being betrayed by his piece of s*it brother and being left to rot on the moon, Mithrix still seemed to miss him. If anything, now I feel even less bad about killing Providence and dislike him even more.

[CanvasK]

I highlighted the bad in Providence and the good in Mithrix.

Mithrix was still a ♥♥♥♥ in his own right. He thought anything that wasn't his own species (or stronger) were vermin that didn't deserve the dirt he walked on. He thought many of them should've gone extinct for what they did to their planets. He jailed the creature that his brother worked hard on because he feared what he thought it might do. And it would probably only revolt if it was treated unwell, something one of the brothers wouldn't do but the other would. He was more than ready to atomize the survivors that wanted nothing to do with him because they were in his presence. And the man threw worms into a well, what kind of monster does that?

Providence gave dozens of species a second chance to thrive. He rescued them from death and protected them. He did this and Mithrix demanded that they be gotten rid of, that Providence's use of the teleporters was a gross misuse of them.

The survivors are also not sinless. Their goal is to leave for one reason or another. But in the process, countless creatures died. Families destroyed. Lemurians, Alloy Vultures, and Imps are intelligent species with their own societies and cultures... that are in the way.

Both of the brothers are bad people for different reasons, some tangible, some ethical, etc. Just like in the real world, not everything neatly fits into the category of good or evil.

[O ARTROSE]

Originally posted by CanvasK:

I highlighted the bad in Providence and the good in Mithrix.

Mithrix was still a ♥♥♥♥ in his own right. He thought anything that wasn't his own species (or stronger) were vermin that didn't deserve the dirt he walked on. He thought many of them should've gone extinct for what they did to their planets. He jailed the creature that his brother worked hard on because he feared what he thought it might do. And it would probably only revolt if it was treated unwell, something one of the brothers wouldn't do but the other would. He was more than ready to atomize the survivors that wanted nothing to do with him because they were in his presence. And the man threw worms into a well, what kind of monster does that?

Providence gave dozens of species a second chance to thrive. He rescued them from death and protected them. He did this and Mithrix demanded that they be gotten rid of, that Providence's use of the teleporters was a gross misuse of them.

The survivors are also not sinless. Their goal is to leave for one reason or another. But in the process, countless creatures died. Families destroyed. Lemurians, Alloy Vultures, and Imps are intelligent species with their own societies and cultures... that are in the way.

Both of the brothers are bad people for different reasons, some tangible, some ethical, etc. Just like in the real world, not everything neatly fits into the category of good or evil.

I never said I liked Mithrix, which is why I also don't feel bad for killing him in RoR2, I just think the fact that he still thought about his brother was impactful. Both of them are scumbags because they are powerful.

If lemurians, alloy vultures or imps didn't want a hole blown through them, all they had to do was not attack the survivors. If they did that on their own accord, or because one of the brothers convinced them to, I don't know, but they did attack. Much like the survivors, those creatures that you mentioned, that are all intelligent species and that had families to care about, are also very likely not sinless. I just can't comprehend why the game tries gaslighting me into feeling bad for them. I never have, and I never will. In the end, they ended up paying the price because of a disagreement between the two brothers. Had they not been so selfish with one another, Providence wouldn't have any reason to attack the ship.

[CanvasK]

Fair enough. It did slip my mind that it is possible that the creatures attacked without being attacked and trying to debate the morality of attacking dime-a-dozen jobbers won't go anywhere fun.

I do want to pedant your wording of "scumbags because they are powerful". They are scumbags, and they are powerful, but the power doesn't make them scumbags, just lets them be scumbags harder.

[laslax]

Originally posted by CanvasK:

Mithrix was still a ♥♥♥♥ in his own right. He thought anything that wasn't his own species (or stronger) were vermin that didn't deserve the dirt he walked on. He thought many of them should've gone extinct for what they did to their planets. He jailed the creature that his brother worked hard on because he feared what he thought it might do. And it would probably only revolt if it was treated unwell, something one of the brothers wouldn't do but the other would. He was more than ready to atomize the survivors that wanted nothing to do with him because they were in his presence. And the man threw worms into a well, what kind of monster does that?

Mithrix isn't completely heartless; he genuinely loved Providence and showed mercy on Aurelionite by giving them Golems and Lemurians, or at least it was implied it was Mithrix. He also likes the Lunar Scavengers loyalty to him and gives them access to his secret vault where you find them in game. Compare that to Providence, who would probably kill you if you looked at him the wrong way or something.

Considering how Aurelionite ends up, you can't say Mithrix wasn't justified or wrong in imprisoning them, and the reason Mithrix attacked the survivors is because he currently hates humanity in particular.

[KwoKwo]

Originally posted by HERÓI DE KVATCH:

Originally posted by CanvasK:

I highlighted the bad in Providence and the good in Mithrix.

Mithrix was still a ♥♥♥♥ in his own right. He thought anything that wasn't his own species (or stronger) were vermin that didn't deserve the dirt he walked on. He thought many of them should've gone extinct for what they did to their planets. He jailed the creature that his brother worked hard on because he feared what he thought it might do. And it would probably only revolt if it was treated unwell, something one of the brothers wouldn't do but the other would. He was more than ready to atomize the survivors that wanted nothing to do with him because they were in his presence. And the man threw worms into a well, what kind of monster does that?

Providence gave dozens of species a second chance to thrive. He rescued them from death and protected them. He did this and Mithrix demanded that they be gotten rid of, that Providence's use of the teleporters was a gross misuse of them.

The survivors are also not sinless. Their goal is to leave for one reason or another. But in the process, countless creatures died. Families destroyed. Lemurians, Alloy Vultures, and Imps are intelligent species with their own societies and cultures... that are in the way.

Both of the brothers are bad people for different reasons, some tangible, some ethical, etc. Just like in the real world, not everything neatly fits into the category of good or evil.

I never said I liked Mithrix, which is why I also don't feel bad for killing him in RoR2, I just think the fact that he still thought about his brother was impactful. Both of them are scumbags because they are powerful.

If lemurians, alloy vultures or imps didn't want a hole blown through them, all they had to do was not attack the survivors. If they did that on their own accord, or because one of the brothers convinced them to, I don't know, but they did attack. Much like the survivors, those creatures that you mentioned, that are all intelligent species and that had families to care about, are also very likely not sinless. I just can't comprehend why the game tries gaslighting me into feeling bad for them. I never have, and I never will. In the end, they ended up paying the price because of a disagreement between the two brothers. Had they not been so selfish with one another, Providence wouldn't have any reason to attack the ship.

I know this is an old thread but i think your point about the lemurians and such is highly biased. the habitants of the planet do not know what providence gets up to, so they only know that providence disappeared when the first survivors came and hasnt come back (it says as much in a risk of rain 2 logbook, dont remember which one so it is a bit of a trust me bro). to them, the people that might've killed their god and are now trespassing on their planet armed to the teeth, are not exactly people they trust and are going to approach peacefully. besides the characters you play are not the first and/or only people coming from that ship, with all the info about the planet containing monsters coming from the contact light i wouldnt be surprised if humans shot first.
you are discussing it from a bias that you understand what humans are. I wouldnt trust a void reaver, same way a lemurian wouldnt trust a human.

[O ARTROSE]

Originally posted by KwoKwo:

Originally posted by HERÓI DE KVATCH:

I never said I liked Mithrix, which is why I also don't feel bad for killing him in RoR2, I just think the fact that he still thought about his brother was impactful. Both of them are scumbags because they are powerful.

If lemurians, alloy vultures or imps didn't want a hole blown through them, all they had to do was not attack the survivors. If they did that on their own accord, or because one of the brothers convinced them to, I don't know, but they did attack. Much like the survivors, those creatures that you mentioned, that are all intelligent species and that had families to care about, are also very likely not sinless. I just can't comprehend why the game tries gaslighting me into feeling bad for them. I never have, and I never will. In the end, they ended up paying the price because of a disagreement between the two brothers. Had they not been so selfish with one another, Providence wouldn't have any reason to attack the ship.

I know this is an old thread but i think your point about the lemurians and such is highly biased. the habitants of the planet do not know what providence gets up to, so they only know that providence disappeared when the first survivors came and hasnt come back (it says as much in a risk of rain 2 logbook, dont remember which one so it is a bit of a trust me bro). to them, the people that might've killed their god and are now trespassing on their planet armed to the teeth, are not exactly people they trust and are going to approach peacefully. besides the characters you play are not the first and/or only people coming from that ship, with all the info about the planet containing monsters coming from the contact light i wouldnt be surprised if humans shot first.
you are discussing it from a bias that you understand what humans are. I wouldnt trust a void reaver, same way a lemurian wouldnt trust a human.

You make a fair point, too. After all the discussion and all of the comments, I still blame Providence as well as Mithrix for the entirety of the catastrophe. The two of them were selfish in their own ways and refused to concede at all, and that doomed not only themselves, but also those that worshipped them.

[KwoKwo]

Originally posted by HERÓI DE KVATCH:

Originally posted by KwoKwo:

I know this is an old thread but i think your point about the lemurians and such is highly biased. the habitants of the planet do not know what providence gets up to, so they only know that providence disappeared when the first survivors came and hasnt come back (it says as much in a risk of rain 2 logbook, dont remember which one so it is a bit of a trust me bro). to them, the people that might've killed their god and are now trespassing on their planet armed to the teeth, are not exactly people they trust and are going to approach peacefully. besides the characters you play are not the first and/or only people coming from that ship, with all the info about the planet containing monsters coming from the contact light i wouldnt be surprised if humans shot first.
you are discussing it from a bias that you understand what humans are. I wouldnt trust a void reaver, same way a lemurian wouldnt trust a human.

You make a fair point, too. After all the discussion and all of the comments, I still blame Providence as well as Mithrix for the entirety of the catastrophe. The two of them were selfish in their own ways and refused to concede at all, and that doomed not only themselves, but also those that worshipped them.

Idk i think i blame mithrix much more, he refused to listen to anything providence wanted, treated his desire for soul as some foolish interest despite him being himself obsessed with design. providence, if he wanted to practice what he wanted, HAD to send mithrix to the moon, as mithrix didn't even begin to listen and was clearly domineering to providence.
providence just chose freedom over being under his brothers thumb, as providence never questioned mithrixs love for design.

when it comes to inviting 'planet killers' its likely that mithrix was being hyperbolic, a lot of those species did doom themselves however they are not unthinking, they can learn from their mistakes and petrichor seems to be doing fine tbh. (apart from the tar, that really was a dumb idea)

when it comes to humans, when the contact light came humans actually kidnapped some of the inhabitants, earning providence's wrath, if someone did experiments on some of my people i would destroy their ship too? the humans are not the good guys in this story, they arent exactly completely evil as our characters are just survivors but the humans as a whole are basically acting without considering the sentience or diplomacy of who they are up against.

Mithrix was a crybaby who couldnt be bothered to understand his brothers love for lesser beings and wanted to create calamities just to piss him off, L person, was so confident that the way he thought of being right he didnt even consider his brothers interest to be worth considering

[LR-89.mz]

Providence had to intervene, else the ship could bring Mithrix from the moon, and he would bring destruction to all that Providence loved.

[laslax]

Originally posted by LR-89.mz:

Providence had to intervene, else the ship could bring Mithrix from the moon, and he would bring destruction to all that Providence loved.

We know Mithrix had plans for Petrichor V, but he only said he would reclaim it. That, including Mithrix desire to destroy Earth because that was Providences next target. Worst case scenario is that Mithrix would mercilessly kill everyone as a proxy revenge, but I doubt he would be unwavering towards the inhabitants of Petrichor V.