An in-depth look at Artificer and Flame chakrams

[ARTistness]

So, I'm a long time Artificer fan, and I just have to talk about her in RoRR. First impression?
She kinda sucks.
Now, Artificer has always been a bit underpowered, and while I feel like it was never properly addressed in RoR2, she did get tweaked at the very least, so lets have a look at her kit.

The Good.

Nanobomb.

It stuns enemies, and does a bunch of damage - what's not to like? Using it in conjunction with Frost barrier is so powerful that its literally one of the tooltips you get under her portrait, for godssake! Now, I have to say, Nanobomb definitely does less damage in RoRR than it did in RoR2. And honestly? I'm okay with that. It allows for other parts of Artificer's kit to be stronger, and we already got our fill of nanobombing the opposition into oblivion in RoR2, so I'm fully supportive of the change.

Pulse Spear.

Honestly, I haven't used this one much - the brainspace it takes to recast it in order to pierce enemies is apparently too much for my tiny monkey brain to handle, but that's just a skill issue.
My only real complaint about it is that recasting it to pierce enemies will also launch any spears you gain from backup mags, which is a loss of control and agency that I genuinely dislike.

Frost Barrier.

Man, making Artificer's Icewall go from a niche execution ability to an actual wall that blocks enemies was definitely an A+ change on the part of Hopoo Games. Its extremely useful for buying yourself enough space to use Nanobomb or Flamethrower, and the freeze when it pops is just icing (ha-ha.) on the cake.
My only complaint about it is that against the later hordes of angry elites, Icewall has a tendency to pop almost immediately, which can be a tad annoying.

Flamethrower.

BURN THE HERETICS!!!
...
*Ahem*
Flamethrower is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sweet in RoRR - all the power they took from Nanobomb got dumped here, and it absolutely melts anything that makes the mistake of standing in front of it. The only downside is how much it slows you down while you use it, which can and will get you killed if you're not careful. This is decently offset by the fact that you hover while you're using it, allowing you to be airborne and out of reach while you douse the opposition with napalm.
My only complaint about it is that its angled almost exclusively forward - hitting things even slightly underneath the flames is kinda tough. Giving it just the slightest downward slant would be enough to satisfy me.

The 'Meh'.

Tectonic Surge

Tectonic surge is... fine. Its a handy movement tool to get yourself out of danger, but in that brief second of weightlessness after I foolishly launch myself straight up in a horde of enemies, I'll wonder; "Now what?" Artificer has no tools to kill things that are directly below her, so having the ability to launch herself straight up in the middle of combat is quite bad for her continued survival. Furthermore, Tectonic surge's cooldown lasts for an eternity and while I don't know off the top of my head whether the other 'escape' abilities have similar cooldowns, I feel like they don't.
All in all, using Tectonic surge over Frost barrier doesn't really feel worth it to me - if Artificer had better ways to capitalize on the stun it leaves behind, sure, but she doesn't, so...

Blazing Sun.

When I look at Blazing sun, I wonder what the hell the developers were thinking. Like, sure, it does decent damage, but as far as I can tell its basically impossible to position it so that it's chunking enemies without dying yourself. Running and jumping around are how you survive in Risk of Rain, so having to just... stand in one spot, immobile, for 3-5 seconds to kill something is just... bad?
It would be a lot better if you could recast it to park it in one place would fix all my problems with it, so its not unsalvageable

The Flame Chakrams.

That's right, Flame Chakrams are so bad that I felt they deserved an entire section all to themselves. So, without further ado...

Flame Chakrams.

This is by far the biggest problem Artificer has in RoRR. The fact that they only 'unfold' after a set travel time means they're incredibly difficult to land without use of stuns or Artificer's icewall, and on top of that, they apply zero hitstun period .
Their damage is... mediocre. Like, sure, If I drop an icewall and spend a couple seconds spamming them out at the dudes caught by it, things will die, but it takes ages and groups of enemies barely even notice. From what I can tell, Flame chakrams will only hit a single enemy at a time - they do not hit multiple enemies at once. Instead, they seem to 'stagger' their application, switching between enemies and tagging whoever has the highest health, giving the illusion that they have true piercing by ensuring that whatever group you're using them on dies all at once.
Finally - and I might actually be wrong about this one - Flame chakrams cannot effectively proc items.
Sure, that spin looks and sounds like its hitting enemies a whole bunch, but none of the 'hits' in the spin actually do any damage - all they do is apply burn, and items can't proc off of burn, for obvious reasons. I'm pretty sure that the only way to trigger an item to go off on your chakrams is with a direct hit; that tiny 45% damage they deal when they pass through an enemy on their way to unfold - which is underwhelming, to say the least.
Now, all this isn't to say that I hate the idea behind Flame chakrams; in fact, I absolutely adore the design philosophy that lead to them - a funky to use attack that does Big Damage. The problem is that Flame Chakrams don't do Big Damage, they do Average Damage. For the amount of effort it takes to land Flame Chakrams, they don't do nearly enough damage.
There are two solutions to this problem;

1. Give Flame Chakrams Big Damage.
   
2. Make Flame Chakrams easier to land.

Now, no matter the solution, I think that Flame Chakrams should have hitstun - from what I know of the other characters, literally everybody has a least a little hitstun on their primary, and the fact that Chakrams have zero hitstun is genuinely baffling. Just give them enough to trap trash mobs in the spin, and that'll be plenty - any more and they become overpowered.
Making Flame Chakrams easier to land seems like the simplest solution - just have them unfold the moment they hit an enemy. Or, if you're feeling a bit spicy, have them burst for reduced damage and increased knockback in order to push the baddies into the sweetspot for the spin.
The nature of Coding might make this change might be difficult though, and the having the Chakrams burst would definitely require additional sprites to be drawn up, so it might not actually be all that simple, but what do I know? (Very little. All I know is what I've been told.)
Giving Flame Chakrams Big Damage has the potential to be a simpler solution, depending on how the code works, but a super easy band-aid solution while something more in depth is worked on; just... boost their damage values. Give them somewhere between 50% and 100% more damage, and then they'll feel awesome.
Now, for the spicier Big Damage options.

1. Let them proc on-hit effects. This is a Big one, and should probably also be implemented into an easier-to-land solution, because while the burn affect they apply is decent, it falls of hard late-game, and item effects are how you counteract that.
   
2. Give them piercing qualities - by which I mean; let them hit all the enemies in their hitbox all at once. This one in conjunction with the last one might make Flame Chakrams legitimately broken, because triggering dozens of on hit effects from a big crowd of enemies would be insane.
   
3. Boost their damage, but like, permanently. Not as a band-aid while something else is worked on, but as a forever change. Personally, this is my least favorite solution, because its kinda boring, but I understand that the devs might have other things they're working on - like the new dlc for RoR2.

Anyway, this has been my rant about how sad I am about Artificer being weak again, and what I would change if given the chance.


TL;DR Flame chakrams suck ass and need to be changed if Artificer is gonna be a good character.

[Senki]

yep she's very underpowered and imo straight up badly designed for this game

the primary stopping when it hits the first enemy, proccing items and having hitstun would fix her

And about blazing sun, I'm 100% sure the devs only developed that for the trials and never even bothered to test it in the actual game. Because it's pretty much unusable.

[PixelWizard]

Her other kit is even worse, especially localized sun. The potential for her is there, but she is just so underwhelming rn.

[One ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hammer]

In RoR2 the artificer was my favorite character to play as.
As much as people hated on Ion Surge, I adored the mobility/utility it provided.
Flamethrower is good, but the prospect of sticking to a monster's face for a good chunk of time, especially if it's a blighted one? - no thanks.
There were other skills to deal good damage and take care of the issue.
In my opinion the character had perhaps one of the best starting damages in game, granted you've landed the shots.
And the scaling on her? Basic attack ATG's shredded stuff.

RoRR? - a fart in the wind, compared to the previous installment.
Want to hit stuff with basic attack? They'll rush you and eat your face clean off.
*But you have a wall!* What wall? Oh, that thing that went on CD two games ago? Yeah, it's still unavailable.
*But you have a flamethrower* It went looking for the wall, haven't heard from it too.
Every other character's basic attack has stun, but not here, not today.
We've decided to tie you down to several CD's and give you a wet napkin in CQC otherwise.
Just remember, you'll spend 90% of the time in CQC, isn't that fun?

It's ridiculous at the start, the amount of effort you need to kill one wisp with basic attacks.
Just try it, you'll see what I mean.
Meanwhile any other character is already wearing a necklace made out of said wisps masks, rampaging down the map.

For god's sake, let the chakrams at least deal damage on the way back.

[StyliKnight]

I agree and I like your idea for blazing sun.

I think tectonic surge is good/okay since it's her only mobility option + also negates fall damage from any height after cast, and seeing how some chests are straight up unreachable w/o mobility taking it over ice wall seems like the better option especially since icewall only seems to serve the purpose of helping with spacing for chakram which are already bad.

however, I think the cooldown should be slightly shorter than it is for this ability maybe like 5 -8 seconds instead of 12. It just feels too long for what it does I'd even be alright with them removing the stun from it.

[One ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hammer]

Originally posted by StylusKnight:

I agree and I like your idea for blazing sun.

I think tectonic surge is good okay since it's her only mobility option + also negates fall damage from any height after cast, and seeing how some chests are straight up unreachable w/o mobility taking it over ice wall seems like the better option especially since icewall only seems to serve the purpose of helping with spacing for chakram which are already bad.

Which is hilarious!
The game forces you to use one of the longer cool-downs as a crutch for your primary to do literally anything!

[Toxi The Vagrant]

I'm not sure why you're rooted in place during small sun, I've had free reign mobility whilst using it, admittedly, this is to a degree awkward to control in a platformer, but it's been fine for me.

[Matondia]

Totally agree. Love Artificer in RoR2 and I was so happy she made it to RoRR, but the second I saw the Flame Chakrams I knew it was bad. The rest of her kit is okay except Blazing Sun, but I haven't tried it and maybe it's a bit better in multi ?

But her primary attack... yuck. A single, straight going, medium range fireball would have suffice. Or to keep the chakram idea, just make it go straight through the ennemies and come back. I don't even mind the low damages, I just hate that I can't hit anything

For blazing Sun, an attack like the Grandparents in RoR2 could have been nice and would keep the idea of a strong but risky character : you're immobile/really slow, but anything coming too close will just take massive burn stacks.
Or keep it like it is, but you place it somewhere and recast to make it pulse and do a big explosion, like a sun grenade ?

[ARTistness]

Originally posted by Toxi The Vagrant:

I'm not sure why you're rooted in place during small sun, I've had free reign mobility whilst using it, admittedly, this is to a degree awkward to control in a platformer, but it's been fine for me.

You're right, Localized sun doesn't root you in place - you can run around all you want while its active, but if you want to be hitting one specific enemy with it? You've gotta park it, and yourself. Which is more likely to kill you than not.

Originally posted by StylusKnight:

I think tectonic surge is good/okay since it's her only mobility option + also negates fall damage from any height after cast, and seeing how some chests are straight up unreachable w/o mobility taking it over ice wall seems like the better option especially since icewall only seems to serve the purpose of helping with spacing for chakram which are already bad.

however, I think the cooldown should be slightly shorter than it is for this ability maybe like 5 -8 seconds instead of 12. It just feels too long for what it does I'd even be alright with them removing the stun from it.

I agree pretty much completely - the utility of tectonic surge is great, and using it over icewall is absolutely viable, but that cooldown is absolutely ridiculous. Commando's slide and roll have a cooldown of four seconds, so having a cool down three times longer than that just for the ability to stun enemies for three-ish seconds and elites for one is just stupid. Granted, tectonic surge also spawns a little platform for you to stand on if you cast it in the air, but... who the hell actually uses that outside of the trail? Legitimate question there - if anyone's found a way to use it in a way that is genuinely useful, let me know.

Originally posted by One ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hammer:

Want to hit stuff with basic attack? They'll rush you and eat your face clean off.
*But you have a wall!* What wall? Oh, that thing that went on CD two games ago? Yeah, it's still unavailable.
*But you have a flamethrower* It went looking for the wall, haven't heard from it too.
Every other character's basic attack has stun, but not here, not today.
We've decided to tie you down to several CD's and give you a wet napkin in CQC otherwise.
Just remember, you'll spend 90% of the time in CQC, isn't that fun?

It's ridiculous at the start, the amount of effort you need to kill one wisp with basic attacks.
Just try it, you'll see what I mean.
Meanwhile any other character is already wearing a necklace made out of said wisps masks, rampaging down the map.

For god's sake, let the chakrams at least deal damage on the way back.

Pretty much sums up most of my problems here. The cooldowns on Artificers other abilities would be excusable if flame chakrams weren't completely useless, but they are, so you spend the entirety of the game running from enemies while waiting on hour-long cooldowns.

[Dioの奇妙な冒険]

Haha， the localized sun. I think the Providence Trail to unlock this skill had already told you: this skill is not good at all.

[GIRL]

Yeah, feels totally weird they'd drop Ion Surge for this. When I read the name "Localized Sun" I at least thought, "oh, like the huge AoE thing that Grandparents did in ror2?" which would've been pretty cool, honestly.

I know the game is probably finished outside of bug fixes for the foreseeable future, but maybe a skilled modder can give Arti some new skills and fix Chakrams.

[:D?]

I've been liking Artificer so far more than in 2 (not a high bar for me personally) because of how satisfying and strong the flamethrower is, and it being generally relatively safer to be next to enemies

I found the chakram damage fine enough with the icewall combo because of the fire dot damage but to be fair I didn't get into looping or Monsoon and such so it could fall off there, in my experience the Nanobomb was the disappointing bit because for all the setup it doesn't feel like it does much, but I thought the same in 2 and it was much stronger there, I might just not like the charge time and slow movement during it

Tectonic Surge would be a decent option if the cooldown was literally halved, the cooldown is ridiculous for something that does so little

[Copy & Cat]

Too much of her kit relies on ice wall or tectonic to work and they are long cooldown skills that are not meant to be used constantly.

Ice wall solves the problem for chakrams, sun, nano bomb, spear and helps flamethrower (the best skill).

Tectonic clearly was made be used in combo with the sun by giving you small room to sit on and use it and is a nice utility overall.

RoR2 artificer had a good rotation of skills despite their cooldown and issue was mostly about how her basic attack was strong but very limited.

Now in this game all of her attacks suffers from longer cooldowns and rely ice wall instead of having each be decent individually, having certain skills pair better with others is no surprise seeing the new knife + shotgun combo for commando.

Her chakrams need an emergency buff to work, miner simple throwable pickaxe feels many times stronger and more reliable

[Wimbledofy]

None of her alternate abilities feel like they were actually meant to be used in a real game. They all seem like they were designed purely for the challenge levels. Sun and tectonic surge have no use outside of challenge levels. Pulse spear being good was probably pure luck that it turned out that way, but it doesn't interact well with backups.

[Detective Costeau]

Yeah, I've only very briefly played the Artificer with the default skills, and I'd agree that the other skills are okay (though a 12 second cooldown on Frost Barrier feels excessive), but the flame chakrams are *so* bad it basically ruins the class for me.
I'm inclined to agree with most of what's been said- giving them basic hitstun would fix 90% of the problems. The times I had a gun drone along to provide a bit of stun made them feel much more viable- but having to depend on a skill with a 12 second cooldown just to reliably hit with your basic attack just feels exceptionally bad.

[Vahnkiljoy]

The fact acrids BUBBLE can proc on hits while her BASIC ATTACK CAN'T speaks to how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ of a skill it is.