Melee and hot tub ruins the game

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Melee:
Melee ruins the game due to it being way better than guns and due to melee not using up ammo. Melee nullifies resource management and renders ammo pointless. It would be best if melee didnt exist so that that way then ammo becomes a meaningful useful resource and would make ammo scarce, this would make the game so much better. Im going to go through the game next time i play it with only using guns and not melee because i know its going to make it a much more enjoyable experience. A fix for this would be to give melee ammo, you could give melee a durability mechanic, so like... make it so that you can only hit enemies with your sword 30 times before it breaks so that you then need to spend 10 toothwheels in order to fix it so that you can hit enemies 30 times again before it breaks again. This essentially would give melee ammo and make make hitting enemies with melee cost toothwheels, the same way as hitting enemies with guns costs toothwheels.

Hot Tub:
Get rid of the hot tub healing you, it ruins the game because it makes the game stupidly easy, the hot tub is such a massive cheese, the hot tub is poorly designed because it makes it so that you can go and kill enemies till you are close to dying and then just run to the hot tub in order to fully heal yourself for no cost and then go back to killing enemies again and rinse repeat. This also makes med kits useless because you can just heal yourself for free without using a med kit using the hot tub, i havnt used a single medkit since i unlocked the ability to use the hot tub due to this (except for in boss fights), only time med kits are needed to be used are in boss fights, but med kits arent needed anywhere else in the game due to the hot tub. This is also poorly designed because its a chore to keep running all the way back to the hot tub every time you are close to dying and it makes it even more of a chore that you have to sit in the hot tub for such a long time in order to be healed. This also makes med kits near useless and makes med kits not scarce enough. Im going to play the game without ever using the hot tub the next time i go through it as i know that its going to make the game a much more enjoyable experience.

Both melee and the hot tub both cause the same problem; which is that they both render resources useless and nullify resource management. Melee renders ammo useless, and the hot tub renders med kits useless.

Fix: Get rid of melee weapons or give melee weapons ammo (give them a durability mechanic). Remove the hot tubs ability to heal you.

[KajFlo]

I disagree. The saber is clearly an essential weapon but I did not feel guns were useless. Just because you can beat the whole game with melee weapons and just because you can use it to farm toothwheels does not make it overpowered, at least not for people doing a blind first playthrough. First you need to discover how useful the saber is, then you need to get proficient with it and not everyone is going to master melee combat in a game with clunky controls. Some enemies you dont want to get close and beating some bosses is clearly best done with guns. So as long as you are not a expert level player ar someone who studies guides before playing the game melee will not feel overpowered.

Also the hot tub is a nice addition. Yes you can go back there but that means lots of walking and also you have to pass enemies that you previously avoided again potentially so this can become dangerous. I also had to use healing items during combat, you cant just always teleport back to the hot tub. Its a nice addition and the music is great in that save room. I mean you said it yourself.... "running all the way back to the hot tub every time you are close to dying and it makes it even more of a chore that you have to sit in the hot tub for such a long time in order to be healed". I am sure this is intentional ;)

Overall I did not have the feeling that they both render resources useless and nullify resource management. For me resource management was part of the game.

The game should be optimized for first blind playthroughs and not for expert level players who extensively studied guides and strategies before tackling the game or people doing their 3rd run already and know every way to cheese the game in my opinion.

[Phoenix7786]

Eh I'll bite. The saber and bath are both choices the players can make regarding using them or not using them. Anyone who wants to experience a harder version of the game can simply choose to not utilize melee weapons and the bath.

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by Phoenix7786:

Eh I'll bite. The saber and bath are both choices the players can make regarding using them or not using them. Anyone who wants to experience a harder version of the game can simply choose to not utilize melee weapons and the bath.

Yeah i know, i said that im going to go through the game without using melee and hot tub. Its not that these things make the game easier which is my problem, but rather my problem is that these things (melee and hot tub) nullify resource management, they make ammo and med kits worthless. And also that the problem with the hot tub is that its tedious to keep running there to use it and what makes it even more tedious is that you've got to sit in there for ages for it to heal you. Its also a problem that melee is way better than guns. Its not that im going to go through the game without using melee/hot tub because these things make the game too easy, but rather its that im going to go through the game without using these things because it will make the game better

[KajFlo]

Originally posted by Banana Duck ඞ:

Originally posted by Phoenix7786:

Eh I'll bite. The saber and bath are both choices the players can make regarding using them or not using them. Anyone who wants to experience a harder version of the game can simply choose to not utilize melee weapons and the bath.

Yeah i know, i said that im going to go through the game without using melee and hot tub. Its not that these things make the game easier which is my problem, but rather my problem is that these things (melee and hot tub) nullify resource management, they make ammo and med kits worthless. And also that the problem with the hot tub is that its tedious to keep running there to use it and what makes it even more tedious is that you've got to sit in there for ages for it to heal you. Its also a problem that melee is way better than guns. Its not that im going to go through the game without using melee/hot tub because these things make the game too easy, but rather its that im going to go through the game without using these things because it will make the game better

As I already said:

"The game should be optimized for first blind playthroughs and not for expert level players who extensively studied guides and strategies before tackling the game or people doing their 3rd run already and know every way to cheese the game"

I think the game is well balanced once you know to use the saber and ignore the Blunderbuss.

And yes, backtracking to the Hot Tub is annoying and dangerous, thats the downside of it. Thats why Medipacks are still important in my opinion.

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by KajFlo:

Originally posted by Banana Duck ඞ:

Yeah i know, i said that im going to go through the game without using melee and hot tub. Its not that these things make the game easier which is my problem, but rather my problem is that these things (melee and hot tub) nullify resource management, they make ammo and med kits worthless. And also that the problem with the hot tub is that its tedious to keep running there to use it and what makes it even more tedious is that you've got to sit in there for ages for it to heal you. Its also a problem that melee is way better than guns. Its not that im going to go through the game without using melee/hot tub because these things make the game too easy, but rather its that im going to go through the game without using these things because it will make the game better

As I already said:

"The game should be optimized for first blind playthroughs and not for expert level players who extensively studied guides and strategies before tackling the game or people doing their 3rd run already and know every way to cheese the game"

I think the game is well balanced once you know to use the saber and ignore the Blunderbuss.

And yes, backtracking to the Hot Tub is annoying and dangerous, thats the downside of it. Thats why Medipacks are still important in my opinion.

Well i found out about melee and the hot tub the instant i got access to them on my 1st playthrough (and which wasnt long in to the game). Im currently on my 1st playthrough and melee and hot tub still ruins the game.

Its not dangerous to run back to the hot tub at all, theres never any enemies when running back to the hot tub, ofcourse there isnt any enemies because like i said; you kill enemies till your health gets low and then you run back to the hot tub, so there wouldnt be any enemies on the way back to the hot tub because you've already killed them. Theres nothing challenging about running to the hot tub at all, like i said; its just a tedious waste of time having to run all the way back there and then also spending several minutes inside it over and over again.

[KajFlo]

Originally posted by Banana Duck ඞ:

Originally posted by KajFlo:

As I already said:

"The game should be optimized for first blind playthroughs and not for expert level players who extensively studied guides and strategies before tackling the game or people doing their 3rd run already and know every way to cheese the game"

I think the game is well balanced once you know to use the saber and ignore the Blunderbuss.

And yes, backtracking to the Hot Tub is annoying and dangerous, thats the downside of it. Thats why Medipacks are still important in my opinion.

Well i found out about melee and the hot tub the instant i got access to them on my 1st playthrough (and which wasnt long in to the game). Im currently on my 1st playthrough and melee and hot tub still ruins the game.

Its not dangerous to run back to the hot tub at all, theres never any enemies when running back to the hot tub, ofcourse there isnt any enemies because like i said; you kill enemies till your health gets low and then you run back to the hot tub, so there wouldnt be any enemies on the way back to the hot tub because you've already killed them. Theres nothing challenging about running to the hot tub at all, like i said; its just a tedious waste of time having to run all the way back there and then also spending several minutes inside it over and over again.

Sorry normally I dont look up profiles but it says you have 64 hours in Alisa, a game that roughly takes 10 hours to beat. And you say you are currently on your 1st playthrough?

I think we all agree you can use Melee (if you mastered the controls) and the hot tub to cheese the game quiet a bit if you intend to do it. Using melee to kill all enemies? My playthrough was a long time ago but i was never so good at melee that I would have attempted to kill every enemy with the saber, especially since there are fast enemies and enemies that swarm you. And actually I think there are some enemies that respawn.

But yes, If you mastered melee and intend to do a perfectly optimized playthrough you can cheese the game with the hot tub probably. But I guess for 98% of players this never becomes an issue and for them resource management is still important. For me it certainly was.

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by KajFlo:

Yeah i often have high steam play time when completing a game because i take my time on games and i get distracted tabbing out watching youtube etc lol, i have also done a lot of testing like testing weapons damage etc which has increased my play time. You can see by my achievments that im on my 1st playthrough.
I have found it very easy to kill all enemies (except for bosses) with melee, i have killed every enemy (except for bosses) so far with melee, in fact... i actually find killing enemies with melee to be easier than killing them with guns. Ammo and med kits have been absolutely useless on my playthrough because ive only used like 2 med kits as i needed them before i unlocked the hot tub, ive just been using the hot tub instead of med kits after i unlocked the hot tub. And i have only ever used bullets on bosses, i used bullets on the first 2 bosses, but then i used throwing spear (when i unlocked it from killing 2nd boss) on bosses after that because throwing spear is straight up better than any gun, i havnt once bought a med kit or ammo because i never needed to because the game gives more than enough med kits and ammo just from picking them up in the environment. And i have almost completed the game, i just killed the 4th boss (Albertus) and i can see myself continuing to only use melee/throwing spear for the rest of the game (including bosses because i will use throwing spear against them).
So yeah, the throwing spear makes guns even more useless because its straight up better than them because it is a ranged projectile same as guns, has unlimited ammo, does more damage than guns, and doesnt need to be reloaded (because picking up the spear pauses the game meaning that you arent at risk of being hit by enemies in middle of reloading unlike how you are with using guns).
There arent any enemies which respawn

[cel]

wait the hot tub heal you?

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by cel:

wait the hot tub heal you?

Yeah, its literally free unlimited med kits, it fully heals you, your health goes up by 1 health per 3 seconds you're in it, so just sit in it for a few minutes basically and you will be fully healed. You can cheese the game by just simply running back to the hot tub to heal every time you get low on health, this also renders med kits useless (outside of boss fights). Its tedious though constantly running back to the hot tub all the time and it makes it even more tedious that you have to sit in it for such a long time for it to heal you

[KajFlo]

Originally posted by Banana Duck ඞ:

Originally posted by KajFlo:

i have also done a lot of testing like testing weapons damage etc which has increased my play time. You can see by my achievments that im on my 1st playthrough.

I mean there is nothing wrong with that but I would not call this a normal "first time blind playthrough", not the type of playthrough probably 98% of all other players are doing.
What you seem to do is a optimized playthrough.

The question is also, how many times do you reload a save.
If you save, try to clear an area only with melee and just quit and reload the save if you mess up or get killed and try this dozens of times until you make it...that is not something most players would do and also technically "cheesing" the game.

I usually try not do do this because I want a pure experience, even if things go badly I dont just reload and do it again as long as I am still alive. My goal is the experience, not optimization.

Optimized runs always expose flaws in the balancing, I mean just look at RE speedruns.

[Frullato di ratti]

No, thanks god the game has both mechanics and thanks god you dont make games. The bath thing is one of the best I've ever seen in a videogame

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by Mia nonna sta per morire:

No, thanks god the game has both mechanics and thanks god you dont make games. The bath thing is one of the best I've ever seen in a videogame

How on earth is running all the way back to the bath whenever you're low on health and sitting there doing nothing for several minutes and med kits being pointless a good mechanic?... more like thank god you dont make games

[Mediocre Ned]

I agree that the saber is OP once you know how to parry properly, which is not that hard to figure out. I do disagree with the hot tub, that's on you for using it as a crutch. I personally view it as a fail safe for people that wasted too many medkits, at the cost of wasting time, just falling back and changing into the nurse outfit to heal is less time consuming. Considering that you have over +60 hours of the game i'm surprised you haven't unlocked the black nurse outfit yet. Said outfit heals you when you deal damage. With that and how good you are with the saber you'll never need to go the bath in the first place.

[Banana Duck ඞ]

Originally posted by Mediocre Ned:

I agree that the saber is OP once you know how to parry properly, which is not that hard to figure out. I do disagree with the hot tub, that's on you for using it as a crutch. I personally view it as a fail safe for people that wasted too many medkits, at the cost of wasting time, just falling back and changing into the nurse outfit to heal is less time consuming. Considering that you have over +60 hours of the game i'm surprised you haven't unlocked the black nurse outfit yet. Said outfit heals you when you deal damage. With that and how good you are with the saber you'll never need to go the bath in the first place.

The Throwing Spear is even more OP, it renders guns useless because its better than guns in every way, because its a projectile weapon the same way that guns are rendering guns useless, while it also uses no ammo. It does more damage than the Saber (Throwing Spear does 6 damage compared to Sabres 2.5 damage (3.75 damage if you parry)). It also doesnt need to be reloaded because picking up the spear has no animation because the game pauses when you're picking it up. There is literally no point in using guns (or melee) when you get the Throwing Spear, and because its a projectile weapon same as guns are; it means that you can use it against bosses too. But yeah... the Throwing Spear is literally a gun which doesnt need to be reloaded and also has unlimited ammo.

[GODKaiserOs]

na sry the javelin is literaly one of the worst weapons in the game. thing breaks after killing like 2 enemies in ng and with the inflated health numbers in ng+9 killing even a single standard doll enemy with the thing pretty much breaks it. also iirc the javelin and the saber need exactly the same amount of hits to kill an enemy making saber the superior choice all around.