So, there are no more updates on the demo, since the game was "kickstarted"?

[Numenorean]

Just wondering what is the plan moving forward; because it seems to me that the main purpose for this demo was to get enough eyes to then launch the kickstarter campaign to ask for money in the end.

As that has been done, now there are "private" builds for backers I guess; so what is next for this demo here? Is it going to be updated? Will it be converted in the early access product sold on Steam?

Considering the scope of what has been mentioned, and the resources needed; I am curious at how this project will be advanced here. Star Citizen asked for money 12 years ago and they have basically nothing yet and they put together 600M; so I am sure it is clear here that a new development team starting from 0 will have a lot to chew to get to a final product.

I am sorry if I sound realistic and numbed but heard too many great projects sold before being done, so I like to follow facts more than hype and words. The existing demo is a nice POC sandbox in isolation; but that is an abstract slice of a game; something that can be put together with some efforts; while making a cohesive game is a whole different story.

You can ask people like CDPR, CIG, Bioware and others, that made demos for games that never existed, and then realized they actually have to write the game, which is not as simple as they thought.

Looking forward to see how this project evolve; and happy to contribute when there will be a release that can be remotely called close enough to what planned. In the meantime a demo will suffice, as long as there is no expectation to pay for it, as nobody pay me before I get my job done sadly, and bills don't work that way either.

[SkittleKicks Plays]

You should go to the the dev's YouTube channel (I can't post the link here but just search on YouTube for Starship Simulator Dev Stream), because Dan streams quite often the work that's currently happening. Understand that backers get first crack at major updates that are released first (rightly so). Eventually it will be released for the public to enjoy the changes since the demo came out. Believe me the sim is not dead and everything going into it currently is absolutely incredible.

[claire]

We've had a lot of conversations on this forum about the demo updates. There is also the development updates forum if you look to the right.
As SkittleKicks said, we stream twice a week on Youtube ( which you can also find pinned to the top of this forum).
We update on most social media every week, and have an active Discord community.

I think you also missed that the game is free, so you won't need to contribute anything :)

[Buckshot]

I hope us non-backers get an update soon. Im losing interest real fast in this game. I had real high hopes when this game first came out but since I learned that non-backers are being punished for not backing up the project, Im losing interest. Ive even lost interest in watching the Dev stream because it may take years before us non-backers see any of it. Seriously...when can non-backers see any updates? Maybe before 2026 or 2027?

[Pluto]

Originally posted by Buckshot:

I hope us non-backers get an update soon. Im losing interest real fast in this game. I had real high hopes when this game first came out but since I learned that non-backers are being punished for not backing up the project, Im losing interest. Ive even lost interest in watching the Dev stream because it may take years before us non-backers see any of it. Seriously...when can non-backers see any updates? Maybe before 2026 or 2027?

It is a demo, I do not expect any updates and will happily wait to play the game when it is ready for a release.

[claire]

Originally posted by Buckshot:

I hope us non-backers get an update soon. Im losing interest real fast in this game. I had real high hopes when this game first came out but since I learned that non-backers are being punished for not backing up the project, Im losing interest. Ive even lost interest in watching the Dev stream because it may take years before us non-backers see any of it. Seriously...when can non-backers see any updates? Maybe before 2026 or 2027?

You keep asking, and I'm afraid the answer is always the same. There is only so fast that we can go.
Most games do not update their demos, and a lot only put one out and then go silent again until release. We are happy to update the demo when we get enough content to push out but we're not going to release anything that's broken, or has too little extra content ( as you can imagine, that's not only bad but it will bring complaints of its own).

We understand that you love the game, and we're grateful for that but we're not punishing anyone, even if we didn't have the backer access, there'd still be no demo update.

As Pluto has said, there are no expectations on a demo, other than what we have said :)

[Numenorean]

Originally posted by claire:

You keep asking, and I'm afraid the answer is always the same. There is only so fast that we can go.
Most games do not update their demos, and a lot only put one out and then go silent again until release. We are happy to update the demo when we get enough content to push out but we're not going to release anything that's broken, or has too little extra content ( as you can imagine, that's not only bad but it will bring complaints of its own).

We understand that you love the game, and we're grateful for that but we're not punishing anyone, even if we didn't have the backer access, there'd still be no demo update.

As Pluto has said, there are no expectations on a demo, other than what we have said :)

I can post examples of games that have been in early access and still are in early access, that post regular updates when their EA build is released, for the demo.
So let's say that it depends from the model that the developer decide to embrace, not much the time (and I am talking of projects made by solo developers/small teams, not AAA projects)

Not expecting that kind of updates of course; just expecting to hear that this demo was a stunt to generate enough interest so people would be redirected to the actual meaty part, which was the closed beta through the kickstarter campaign. This is a similar model used by Elite Dangerous and other games for example; so nothing new.
The difference is that giving 300 dollars for the alpha of ED to Frontier, which is a company that exist for a while, after a successful kickstarter was seen as less of a risk (still madness if you ask me, but hey... Not my money so people can do what they want with their money :) ).

If now this "demo" has solved its purpose, and will stay here just to have a presence on Steam, while the closed betas are for "backers" only, that is fine; just say it so people that already know about this game can simply avoid to spend time here and go to your social profile/website to track news and see what is going on.

I was just wondering if this project is part of the "follow us for news here, and play the demo" or it is a "check the demo, if you want more open your wallet". Because that matter a lot in my eyes; and not being transparent with it, when there is nothing wrong in going either route, matters even more.

Thanks for replying and good luck for your endeavor!

[Numenorean]

Originally posted by claire:

We've had a lot of conversations on this forum about the demo updates. There is also the development updates forum if you look to the right.
As SkittleKicks said, we stream twice a week on Youtube ( which you can also find pinned to the top of this forum).
We update on most social media every week, and have an active Discord community.

I think you also missed that the game is free, so you won't need to contribute anything :)

Sorry, missed this one.

I get the news updates and everything; that is part of the marketing side. My point was just on the frequency and sync up of the closed builds vs Steam builds.

Also I am not sure I get the comment about the game being free; are you planning to make a free version and a paid version? The only version I know is the game that is worked on and being kickstarted and eventually be finished and sold... Then if there is a "lite" version (that today they call prologue?), that is tangential; as I am mainly referring to the product sold as full release.

Thanks!

[Scrogdog]

Also I am not sure I get the comment about the game being free; are you planning to make a free version and a paid version?

Seems you missed a bit more than a reply. This information has been stated ad-infinitum. :)

The first iteration of the game will be the sandbox which will always be free. Once the galaxy is 'working' so to speak, then further content will be provided via DLC which will not be free, but will offer new ships and several different types of campaigns. Once you acquire a new ship, you may also use it in the free sandbox.

Claire, you might want to consider a pinned FAQ.

[claire]

Originally posted by Numenorean:

Originally posted by claire:

You keep asking, and I'm afraid the answer is always the same. There is only so fast that we can go.
Most games do not update their demos, and a lot only put one out and then go silent again until release. We are happy to update the demo when we get enough content to push out but we're not going to release anything that's broken, or has too little extra content ( as you can imagine, that's not only bad but it will bring complaints of its own).

We understand that you love the game, and we're grateful for that but we're not punishing anyone, even if we didn't have the backer access, there'd still be no demo update.

As Pluto has said, there are no expectations on a demo, other than what we have said :)

I can post examples of games that have been in early access and still are in early access, that post regular updates when their EA build is released, for the demo.
So let's say that it depends from the model that the developer decide to embrace, not much the time (and I am talking of projects made by solo developers/small teams, not AAA projects)

Not expecting that kind of updates of course; just expecting to hear that this demo was a stunt to generate enough interest so people would be redirected to the actual meaty part, which was the closed beta through the kickstarter campaign. This is a similar model used by Elite Dangerous and other games for example; so nothing new.
The difference is that giving 300 dollars for the alpha of ED to Frontier, which is a company that exist for a while, after a successful kickstarter was seen as less of a risk (still madness if you ask me, but hey... Not my money so people can do what they want with their money :) ).

If now this "demo" has solved its purpose, and will stay here just to have a presence on Steam, while the closed betas are for "backers" only, that is fine; just say it so people that already know about this game can simply avoid to spend time here and go to your social profile/website to track news and see what is going on.

I was just wondering if this project is part of the "follow us for news here, and play the demo" or it is a "check the demo, if you want more open your wallet". Because that matter a lot in my eyes; and not being transparent with it, when there is nothing wrong in going either route, matters even more.

Thanks for replying and good luck for your endeavor!

Just to clarify, that reply was for Buckshot, not you :)

We're really a lot more simplistic than all of this. The demo was created for the Steam Next Fest in June 2023, it was then updated before we went to Kickstarter in March 2024.

We have two builds, a demo build and an internal development build. The internal build is updated roughly twice a week, and the backers ( not just Kickstarter, we've had backers for 3 years), have access to that in its entirety.
When the internal build is polished enough, and has enough content to be demo-worthy, it goes out to the public demo build. This will continue to happen until we move to official early access ( which the demo build will become), sometime next year.
So simply put, the demo is EXACTLY the same as the internal build, until the internal build gets more content ( because that's how internal builds work), and then that goes out to the demo anyway.

You say 'just say it', we have said it, many, many, many times now. We are completely transparent, as you can see if you watch the streams, or check the updates here (or on any social media) :)

As we've said, no one needs to open their wallet. They'll eventually get all the content for free.

[Numenorean]

Originally posted by claire:

Just to clarify, that reply was for Buckshot, not you :)

We're really a lot more simplistic than all of this. The demo was created for the Steam Next Fest in June 2023, it was then updated before we went to Kickstarter in March 2024.

We have two builds, a demo build and an internal development build. The internal build is updated roughly twice a week, and the backers ( not just Kickstarter, we've had backers for 3 years), have access to that in its entirety.
When the internal build is polished enough, and has enough content to be demo-worthy, it goes out to the public demo build. This will continue to happen until we move to official early access ( which the demo build will become), sometime next year.
So simply put, the demo is EXACTLY the same as the internal build, until the internal build gets more content ( because that's how internal builds work), and then that goes out to the demo anyway.

You say 'just say it', we have said it, many, many, many times now. We are completely transparent, as you can see if you watch the streams, or check the updates here (or on any social media) :)

As we've said, no one needs to open their wallet. They'll eventually get all the content for free.

I see, Thanks for going into details!

I am confused about the planning then, because you say that the demo was made for Nextfest2023, but you were already taking money from backers since 3 years prior, which I assume you refer to 2024 so this project started to take money in 2021?

Or do you refer as "backers" as people that support the project in a non-monetary way? Because that would assume that there are builds that are produced since 3 years ago then?

Or maybe I just don't get the "dual" nature of the project; between a free version that is basically something that is out wherever someone has time to push a build out; and a paid version that people are currently backing? To my understanding, these internal builds are given to backers, not to everyone, so there is a difference between people "paying" and the folks here on Steam :)
Eventually in months or years the plan is to go early access with those builds, right? Then why not sharing those builds here? So instead of having X people testing those builds you can have more people testing the builds? You are getting free workforce basically testing a prototype, which is a win for you if you are planning to release this for free anyway at one point or another.... It is not like it is bad publicity and will ruin your sales, as there is nothing to sell, right? :)

Anyway, this is just my thought; once again it is your project, not mine, and whatever you do with it is your business not mine. Whatever monetization roadmap you planned is in your head so follow whatever you think is right and then time will show if you made the right call or not.

I am sure you are aware that statistics is not on your side... Even Dual Universe, that was supposed to be the best thing after sliced bread has like 10 concurrent players after launch; and most space games usually end up in some sort of limbo because it is quite a niche market. Star Citizen is its own thing that will never happen again, and even with 700M in their pocket, they struggle to even release the single player experience after 12 years, so making space games it is quite a hard thing to do successfully.

You have a great idea, and if done right it will be really a game changer, so I hope you will succeed. Cheers!

[claire]

Originally posted by author:

I am confused about the planning then, because you say that the demo was made for Nextfest2023, but you were already taking money from backers since 3 years prior, which I assume you refer to 2024 so this project started to take money in 2021?

- So, before we started this project we were part of another studio creating The Orville. We broke away from them to create this, some of that community followed us to our new Discord and became our backers ( either via donations on Patreon/Ko-fi, or design or community help.), so that we could get the project off the ground. Those 'backers' have been with us since day 1 (Jan 2021), and have also had access to the development builds ( Again, we only had/have one internal build, so they see everything).

Originally posted by author:

Or maybe I just don't get the "dual" nature of the project; between a free version that is basically something that is out wherever someone has time to push a build out; and a paid version that people are currently backing? To my understanding, these internal builds are given to backers, not to everyone, so there is a difference between people "paying" and the folks here on Steam :)

- Again, it's not when someone has time to push a build out, it's when a build is ready to go out.
There isn't technically a 'paid' version, access to the dev build is a reward perk for supporting the project ( Although, I totally understand that can be seen in two ways). I'm sure you understand that games are EXTREMELY expensive to make ( if you want to get it done in good time because talent costs money), so it is a community-funded product, hence why it's coming out eventually for free to everyone. What people are technically paying for right now is access to watching the game being made, they don't just get build access, they also get development room access on Discord and have a direct hand in making the game, along with the extra perks that we had out for Kickstarter.
As we speak there is a living crisis and we feel that there shouldn't be any barrier to people being able to play this game. The people who can afford to help create it, are also helping bring a product to people who cannot afford to buy it, so we've added extra rewards so it's a win/win situation for all.

Originally posted by author:

Eventually in months or years the plan is to go early access with those builds, right? Then why not sharing those builds here? So instead of having X people testing those builds you can have more people testing the builds? You are getting free workforce basically testing a prototype, which is a win for you if you are planning to release this for free anyway at one point or another.... It is not like it is bad publicity and will ruin your sales, as there is nothing to sell, right? :)

- So with this one, the project is still an early alpha tech demo, there is nowhere near enough content to go to early access ( there are early access rules on Steam), we don't have any game-play yet, no controller support, and nothing for the single-player aspects. These things will be in by early access.
Right now, we have over 6000 backers testing the internal ( quite broken most of the time) development build. People who play the demo here are also able to send through bug reports if they'd like to, it all helps! We couldn't possibly put the development build out publicly because that one is being directly built by the developer, so it is in permanent flux. Publicity-wise, it wouldn't be a good look ;)

Originally posted by author:

Anyway, this is just my thought; once again it is your project, not mine, and whatever you do with it is your business not mine. Whatever monetization roadmap you planned is in your head so follow whatever you think is right and then time will show if you made the right call or not.

- The monetisation model is also quite simple. The project is community funded, therefore all money coming from the community goes towards the project directly and enables it to be created for everyone.
The game is a sandbox and will have everything in it that is written on the store page, this will be free...with no microtransactions.
We will then create extra small ships for people to buy if they would like to, and this will also go towards the development of the game.
Once the free sandbox game has been completed and is fully released, we will then begin working on our paid story-based DLC content. The only reason we need to charge for this is because development on it will be a huge amount more due to needing writers, voice actors and a million other things :D

Originally posted by author:

I am sure you are aware that statistics is not on your side... Even Dual Universe, that was supposed to be the best thing after sliced bread has like 10 concurrent players after launch; and most space games usually end up in some sort of limbo because it is quite a niche market. Star Citizen is its own thing that will never happen again, and even with 700M in their pocket, they struggle to even release the single player experience after 12 years, so making space games it is quite a hard thing to do successfull.

- At the moment we have numerous role-playing groups set up and running ( they are amazing people!), over 127000 wishlists, and a daily average player count of 272 on the demo, almost 10k people in our Discord community and we adore each and every one of them. So while I'm being honest here, we already class ourselves as successful. We adore our community and things are greater than we ever imagined them to be :) We'll continue to do everything we can to bring an amazing game to people, to interact with our community and to listen to everything that they want from this game ( even if we can't implement all of it :D ) :)
One of the things in the gaming industry is to make a game that hits a niche in the market, we're not doing that. This game came about because Dan loves starships, space, the ideas of future space travel, and architecture. So he put them all together to make Starship Simulator, it's his passion :) With that passion we have created a studio and a community that we hope will be here for many, many years to come <3

I hope I didn't waffle too much and that I have answered everything. Thanks :)

[Fartsparkles]

Claire, your patience is astounding and your communications are some of the best I’ve seen from a developer.

I didn’t see a link to Ko-fi in the FAQ. Perhaps add it as I’m hopefully going to tomorrow/today if I don’t forget.

Keep up the amazing work and perhaps, on release, maybe add a “Supporter Upgrade DLC” like Deep Rock Galactic did that enables people to easily give you £10 or something - perhaps for a pair of cosmetic gold-coloured shoes or something simple.

I adore your dedication to release for free but don’t forget some of us will want to open our pockets while we wait for the first paid DLCs.

[Innominatam]

Originally posted by Buckshot:

I hope us non-backers get an update soon. Im losing interest real fast in this game. I had real high hopes when this game first came out but since I learned that non-backers are being punished for not backing up the project, Im losing interest. Ive even lost interest in watching the Dev stream because it may take years before us non-backers see any of it. Seriously...when can non-backers see any updates? Maybe before 2026 or 2027?

What....? They paid you didn't only natural they get first dibs

[Meredydd]

Originally posted by claire:

Originally posted by author:

I am confused about the planning then, because you say that the demo was made for Nextfest2023, but you were already taking money from backers since 3 years prior, which I assume you refer to 2024 so this project started to take money in 2021?

- So, before we started this project we were part of another studio creating The Orville. We broke away from them to create this, some of that community followed us to our new Discord and became our backers ( either via donations on Patreon/Ko-fi, or design or community help.), so that we could get the project off the ground. Those 'backers' have been with us since day 1 (Jan 2021), and have also had access to the development builds ( Again, we only had/have one internal build, so they see everything).

Originally posted by author:

Or maybe I just don't get the "dual" nature of the project; between a free version that is basically something that is out wherever someone has time to push a build out; and a paid version that people are currently backing? To my understanding, these internal builds are given to backers, not to everyone, so there is a difference between people "paying" and the folks here on Steam :)

- Again, it's not when someone has time to push a build out, it's when a build is ready to go out.
There isn't technically a 'paid' version, access to the dev build is a reward perk for supporting the project ( Although, I totally understand that can be seen in two ways). I'm sure you understand that games are EXTREMELY expensive to make ( if you want to get it done in good time because talent costs money), so it is a community-funded product, hence why it's coming out eventually for free to everyone. What people are technically paying for right now is access to watching the game being made, they don't just get build access, they also get development room access on Discord and have a direct hand in making the game, along with the extra perks that we had out for Kickstarter.
As we speak there is a living crisis and we feel that there shouldn't be any barrier to people being able to play this game. The people who can afford to help create it, are also helping bring a product to people who cannot afford to buy it, so we've added extra rewards so it's a win/win situation for all.

Originally posted by author:

Eventually in months or years the plan is to go early access with those builds, right? Then why not sharing those builds here? So instead of having X people testing those builds you can have more people testing the builds? You are getting free workforce basically testing a prototype, which is a win for you if you are planning to release this for free anyway at one point or another.... It is not like it is bad publicity and will ruin your sales, as there is nothing to sell, right? :)

- So with this one, the project is still an early alpha tech demo, there is nowhere near enough content to go to early access ( there are early access rules on Steam), we don't have any game-play yet, no controller support, and nothing for the single-player aspects. These things will be in by early access.
Right now, we have over 6000 backers testing the internal ( quite broken most of the time) development build. People who play the demo here are also able to send through bug reports if they'd like to, it all helps! We couldn't possibly put the development build out publicly because that one is being directly built by the developer, so it is in permanent flux. Publicity-wise, it wouldn't be a good look ;)

Originally posted by author:

Anyway, this is just my thought; once again it is your project, not mine, and whatever you do with it is your business not mine. Whatever monetization roadmap you planned is in your head so follow whatever you think is right and then time will show if you made the right call or not.

- The monetisation model is also quite simple. The project is community funded, therefore all money coming from the community goes towards the project directly and enables it to be created for everyone.
The game is a sandbox and will have everything in it that is written on the store page, this will be free...with no microtransactions.
We will then create extra small ships for people to buy if they would like to, and this will also go towards the development of the game.
Once the free sandbox game has been completed and is fully released, we will then begin working on our paid story-based DLC content. The only reason we need to charge for this is because development on it will be a huge amount more due to needing writers, voice actors and a million other things :D

Originally posted by author:

I am sure you are aware that statistics is not on your side... Even Dual Universe, that was supposed to be the best thing after sliced bread has like 10 concurrent players after launch; and most space games usually end up in some sort of limbo because it is quite a niche market. Star Citizen is its own thing that will never happen again, and even with 700M in their pocket, they struggle to even release the single player experience after 12 years, so making space games it is quite a hard thing to do successful.

- At the moment we have numerous role-playing groups set up and running ( they are amazing people!), over 127000 wishlists, and a daily average player count of 272 on the demo, almost 10k people in our Discord community and we adore each and every one of them. So while I'm being honest here, we already class ourselves as successful. We adore our community and things are greater than we ever imagined them to be :) We'll continue to do everything we can to bring an amazing game to people, to interact with our community and to listen to everything that they want from this game ( even if we can't implement all of it :D ) :)
One of the things in the gaming industry is to make a game that hits a niche in the market, we're not doing that. This game came about because Dan loves starships, space, the ideas of future space travel, and architecture. So he put them all together to make Starship Simulator, it's his passion :) With that passion we have created a studio and a community that we hope will be here for many, many years to come <3

I hope I didn't waffle too much and that I have answered everything. Thanks :)

I gotta say to deal with posts like this when people lack patience that sometimes devs gotta have nerves of steel to not pop off on some folks, even when they deserve it at times. Sci Fi sim genre is screaming out for a Star Trek style sim game where you live, work and go on adventures aboard your own Starship. I think many would love to be able to live aboard the Enterprise.I'd rather you folks take your time, and get to where the game needs to be at a pace your comfortable with, I think we all deserve a space sim that's good. I look forward to see what you got cooking.

[Buckshot]

Hmm...Let me guess....you are a backer and you get updates regularly. Since I could not be a backer, I am left in the dark and wondering if and when us non-backers will get an update. I have pretty much given up on this game....for now. I honestly dont expect the demo to get an update until mid 2025 or early 2026. Im hoping Christmas 2025 but I am not holding my breath.