Do factories make sense?

[kriok809]

Guys, I thought the factories were intended to make products sold in stores cheaper, but it seems that it is only to meet demand when importers are in short supply.

I did some math and it makes no sense to have factories in the current game model.

I created a factory to produce cheap and expensive clothes:
- raw material: 100k
- daily factory cost: 14k
It produces 1/4 of what an M1 store needs.

This same amount of products when purchased from the importer costs 33k.

In the current model, factories cost 3x more than buying from the importer, shouldn't it be the other way around?

[David Estes Creations]

Originally posted by kriok809:

In the current model, factories cost 3x more than buying from the importer, shouldn't it be the other way around?

It sounds like some things aren't set up quite right if it's costing that much! There's currently no advantage to having high skilled factory workers, so keep them low so they are cheaper!

Also, make sure you don't have extra output/input stations if you could use splitters or run straight into another station! That quickly adds up the employee costs!

EDIT: Wait - 100k in raw material for what costs 33k in imports? If that's what you're seeing, please hit F2 and submit that as a bug report so we can take a look at that!

[MagicMarker]

Originally posted by David Estes Creations:

It sounds like some things aren't set up quite right if it's costing that much!

David, you keep saying that people are clearly doing things wrong, if their costs are so high or their profits are non-existent. And I want to believe you. But so far, NOBODY has shown us how it SHOULD be done. We have yet to hear of any player who made a factory work AND be profitable.

I'm beginning to think it's about high time that you and the team showed us how you thought we should do these things. Some text in the F1 in-game help and you saying we do it wrong is clearly not enough; I'm thinking we need pictures and maybe a video or two?

[David Estes Creations]

Originally posted by MagicMarker:

David, you keep saying that people are clearly doing things wrong, if their costs are so high

In this case - the cloth for making cheap clothing is 4 times cheaper than getting cheap clothing from the importer. This poster is claiming that it is 3X more expensive, though, and if that is truly what they're seeing is the result of something weird, which is why we would need a bug report.

Clothing takes very few employees, especially if you use splitters from one input machine to handle multiple types of clothing (the same cheap cloth can make 4 types of clothing, so you can split the input station and feed all four with one employee). Plus the fabric is cheap.

Originally posted by MagicMarker:

But so far, NOBODY has shown us how it SHOULD be done. We have yet to hear of any player who made a factory work AND be profitable.

There have been posts with people showing factories on a few platforms. From cigars to clothing, jewelry, electronics, they've found savings in the factories. Food/drinks are often borderline.

If you're in hard mode or have employees with high skill, that will make it harder due to the employee wages, though, that is definitely a factor!

Most bug reports I've seen that show their factory issues are using several more input/output stations than are required, which make them cost significantly more money than they would if using more splitters or running lines directly into each other.

Originally posted by MagicMarker:

maybe a video or two

That could be interesting. We'll discuss this next week!

[Laetitia]

Originally posted by kriok809:

Guys, I thought the factories were intended to make products sold in stores cheaper, but it seems that it is only to meet demand when importers are in short supply.

I did some math and it makes no sense to have factories in the current game model.

I created a factory to produce cheap and expensive clothes:
- raw material: 100k
- daily factory cost: 14k
It produces 1/4 of what an M1 store needs.

This same amount of products when purchased from the importer costs 33k.

In the current model, factories cost 3x more than buying from the importer, shouldn't it be the other way around?

It's funny that you just created a post about Factory, especially Clothing Factory since I just created a guide about it :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3357803250

I recommend you to read it, not just because I'm the writer but also because I created an optimized factory to reduce costs as much as possible and explain why it is better than importing.

[Andragon]

I build that factory but I am not sure about one output. After looking into my factory I see the lines that are at the wall producing way less than the lines up front. When visiting the factory I see those lines in the back backlogging. I assumed that it works like the shops where the people inside not affect the income but here it seems to actually work differently.

[Laetitia]

Originally posted by Andragon:

I build that factory but I am not sure about one output. After looking into my factory I see the lines that are at the wall producing way less than the lines up front. When visiting the factory I see those lines in the back backlogging. I assumed that it works like the shops where the people inside not affect the income but here it seems to actually work differently.

Yeah, the two Industrial Sewing Machine near the wall don't really produce a lot, I'll try to make a better factory soon, i was thinkg about putting a second output station near the wall and split the output by two, 4 products will go to the output station near the wall and 4 products will go to the output station on the other side and maybe split the output by two to put a second output station and increase production.

[Andragon]

Ok i tested it with 4 outputs (2 sewing machines each) and it works too well actually. The numbers don't add up. I get more products than I am supposed to get. Expensive clothes should give 1 each 15 minutes and cheap ones 1 per 10 minutes. I should get 96 and 144 each per day but I get way over 240 each.
With those numbers I make about 8k profit each day with 20 100% employees in 24h 7 days each week production. It would however take 237 days to recoup the initial investment but thats not my motivation here ;)

[Laetitia]

Originally posted by Andragon:

Ok i tested it with 4 outputs (2 sewing machines each) and it works too well actually. The numbers don't add up. I get more products than I am supposed to get. Expensive clothes should give 1 each 15 minutes and cheap ones 1 per 10 minutes. I should get 96 and 144 each per day but I get way over 240 each.
With those numbers I make about 8k profit each day with 20 100% employees in 24h 7 days each week production. It would however take 237 days to recoup the initial investment but thats not my motivation here ;)

Oh wow, such a little modification do so much ?

[Andragon]

I forgot to say that I play on easy at the moment

[Laetitia]

Originally posted by Andragon:

I forgot to say that I play on easy at the moment

I just updated my factory if you want to see the nex design based on what I said before :)
I'm curious, why are you playing in Easy ? Too hard or just want to discover ?
Because, honestly, I started in nromal without having any difficulty, I even found the game way to easy if I compare with real life, that's why I created my own difficulty even if it's still too easy lol, anyways, I'm not judging you, if you wanna play in easy, I don't mind, it's your game not mine, I'm just curious :)

[kriok809]

Originally posted by David Estes Creations:

Originally posted by kriok809:

In the current model, factories cost 3x more than buying from the importer, shouldn't it be the other way around?

It sounds like some things aren't set up quite right if it's costing that much! There's currently no advantage to having high skilled factory workers, so keep them low so they are cheaper!

Also, make sure you don't have extra output/input stations if you could use splitters or run straight into another station! That quickly adds up the employee costs!

EDIT: Wait - 100k in raw material for what costs 33k in imports? If that's what you're seeing, please hit F2 and submit that as a bug report so we can take a look at that!

David,

I reviewed the demands and optimized the factory, and I did find better numbers that make it worthwhile to build the factory.

It seems that what caused my confusion in the calculations was the raw material inventory count. The number is considerably lower when compared to the quantity of products produced in 24 hours. Which leads me to believe that the excess quantity is the quantity that is still in the queue. I would like you to confirm this.

One thing that has lost its meaning is the product output tab in BizMan. If we use an output machine for multiple products, the numbers shown in this tab are useless for any calculation.

Production time
- I still have to finish an experiment on production time, but so far, the laser cutting machine and the sewing machine have a very high production time compared to the input speed. I think this will mean that it will be necessary to build 2 factories to supply 5 stores (4x M1, 1x C2).

- The dividing conveyor is very slow, it only handles one product at a time. It could be operated continuously, which would improve the flow as a whole.

Storage
- Workers are storing boxes with different quantities of products, which causes the shelves to fill up very quickly. It would be better if they only removed the boxes from the output machine when a limit for a given product was reached.

Questions
- Does the time it takes for a worker to carry a raw material to the input machine affect the quantity produced?

That's it for now. I managed to build a profitable factory, but at the cost of a lot of testing time. I believe that a review of the items I mentioned could cause less confusion for players. I say this because most of the factories I see in the Steam workshop are not optimized at all.

[kriok809]

Originally posted by Shykuzo:

I recommend you to read it, not just because I'm the writer but also because I created an optimized factory to reduce costs as much as possible and explain why it is better than importing.

Your guide is really cool, thanks for sharing.

My final result was different, but I started my tests based on your design. In the guide post, I will comment on my results.

[Laetitia]

Originally posted by kriok809:

Originally posted by Shykuzo:

I recommend you to read it, not just because I'm the writer but also because I created an optimized factory to reduce costs as much as possible and explain why it is better than importing.

Your guide is really cool, thanks for sharing.

My final result was different, but I started my tests based on your design. In the guide post, I will comment on my results.

Thank you, it was my first one, wasn't really sure about it ^^'
I need to do some testings too, the guide isn't completely finish and will probably never be, I think I'll keep updating it forever to follow the updates, optimize it more with my discoveries, etc

[kriok809]

Originally posted by David Estes Creations:

Originally posted by kriok809:

EDIT: Wait - 100k in raw material for what costs 33k in imports? If that's what you're seeing, please hit F2 and submit that as a bug report so we can take a look at that!

Hi David,

I sent a bug report to inform about the high consumption of raw materials and I also think there is a problem with the storage of manufactured products.

I tried using pallet shelves and smaller product shelves, in both cases the products are being stored in different quantities.

[Sarsgamer]

Originally posted by Shykuzo:

Originally posted by kriok809:

Your guide is really cool, thanks for sharing.

My final result was different, but I started my tests based on your design. In the guide post, I will comment on my results.

Thank you, it was my first one, wasn't really sure about it ^^'
I need to do some testings too, the guide isn't completely finish and will probably never be, I think I'll keep updating it forever to follow the updates, optimize it more with my discoveries, etc

I too was inspired by your guide that I decided to try out factories myself. You could probably get by with one output station if you connect the left and right to a single conveyor belt in the center then feed it to a single output station. Then make sure you have pallet shelves near the output station.

Speaking of pallet shelves... I think it would work a lot better if we can indicate what the shelves can hold, inputs or outputs and maybe even specific inputs. This probably only makes a difference while we are physically in the warehouse though.

They are kinda fun to setup and a bit complex at first, but at this time they don't seem overly useful. I know the devs plan to make improvements in the future so I'll wait for those before I do another.

If anyone has ever played Anno 1800 (possibly other Anno series, I've only played 1800) you'd get the manufacturing timing of each machine, however, that should be noted in F1-help as you don't them until you place the machine and select the input/output... without that you don't know how many machines you need to buy upfront.